Sound Doctrine is not popular today
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E
Sound doctrine, according to Paul, is not about what makes you feel religious and therefore acceptable to God. Its about allowing the life of Christ to flow to others through the Holy Spirit in the one who says they believe
TITUS 2
You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine.*
KEEP READING...ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT SO MANY HERE TRY TO MAKE IT ABOUT
Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.*Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children,*to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled.*In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness*and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,*and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.*It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,*while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,*who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
**************************
Anyone who tries to state that GRACE ALONE does not save has no experiential outworking of THAT grace as evidenced by Paul' s epistle with instruction to Titus
There simply are no acceptable works other than those God Himself enacts by His Spirit, through the believer who is surrendered to God and who has STOPPED all their own efforts to become what God alone can create
These are my own words...other than the passage from Titus
TITUS 2
You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine.*
KEEP READING...ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT SO MANY HERE TRY TO MAKE IT ABOUT
Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.*Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children,*to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled.*In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness*and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,*and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.*It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,*while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,*who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
**************************
Anyone who tries to state that GRACE ALONE does not save has no experiential outworking of THAT grace as evidenced by Paul' s epistle with instruction to Titus
There simply are no acceptable works other than those God Himself enacts by His Spirit, through the believer who is surrendered to God and who has STOPPED all their own efforts to become what God alone can create
These are my own words...other than the passage from Titus
K
Without the "Faith in Jesus" a person is not under God's grace !!!
Apostle Paul clearly told that to the Galatians who left the gospel of Christ to seek justification by Mosaic law keeping.
Paul said to them in Galatians 5:4 "Christ has become of no effect" or in other translations "you have been severed from Christ".
What Jesus came to do was die on the cross to give us remission of sins so that we can be reconciled to God, so what Paul is saying is that His remission no longer covers them.
Because of that Paul said they had fallen from grace, no longer in the faith = no longer under God's grace !!!
Apostle Paul clearly told that to the Galatians who left the gospel of Christ to seek justification by Mosaic law keeping.
Paul said to them in Galatians 5:4 "Christ has become of no effect" or in other translations "you have been severed from Christ".
What Jesus came to do was die on the cross to give us remission of sins so that we can be reconciled to God, so what Paul is saying is that His remission no longer covers them.
Because of that Paul said they had fallen from grace, no longer in the faith = no longer under God's grace !!!
Seems like Paul is talking about unbelievers in this passage. For "our" citizenship is in heaven. There's a distinction being made here between groups of people.
There are definitely people in the world that are enemies of the cross of Christ....those that have not died on the cross with Christ..,,and then were raised with Him as a new creation in Christ.....no doubt about it..mostly false brethren....unrighteous...trying to get in by other means then through the Door..Jesus and His finished work
Philippians 3:18-20 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
There are definitely people in the world that are enemies of the cross of Christ....those that have not died on the cross with Christ..,,and then were raised with Him as a new creation in Christ.....no doubt about it..mostly false brethren....unrighteous...trying to get in by other means then through the Door..Jesus and His finished work
Philippians 3:18-20 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
There is a version of righteous living doctrine that does hold righteousness is possible outside Christ, or that people can be regarded as without sin separate from faith. But we do not hold to that.
The only real difference is in the concept of how you walk in righteousness, and the role love in your heart has.
From the language of some contributors this is not part of your lives or important. Maybe as part of the right wing outlook on life such sentimental ideas are for wimps. It would make sense with your dedication to Hell fire as a place of eternal torture, and there is no punishment brutal enough for Gods enemies.
Do people believe as humans we are scum or just lost sinners blindly falling into hell in need of a saviour? How lost you feel people are and the seat of the nature of integrity and truth in the human heart, makes a difference on how you feel people can be saved or not. My experience is most are very much like me, but nothing really adds up, and they are very emotionally conflicted which shows itself in anxiety attacks, nervous breakdowns and total collapses of the will.
On the other hand Jesus bring peace, contentment, self control, patience, joy, grace and a sense of well being.
The only real difference is in the concept of how you walk in righteousness, and the role love in your heart has.
From the language of some contributors this is not part of your lives or important. Maybe as part of the right wing outlook on life such sentimental ideas are for wimps. It would make sense with your dedication to Hell fire as a place of eternal torture, and there is no punishment brutal enough for Gods enemies.
Do people believe as humans we are scum or just lost sinners blindly falling into hell in need of a saviour? How lost you feel people are and the seat of the nature of integrity and truth in the human heart, makes a difference on how you feel people can be saved or not. My experience is most are very much like me, but nothing really adds up, and they are very emotionally conflicted which shows itself in anxiety attacks, nervous breakdowns and total collapses of the will.
On the other hand Jesus bring peace, contentment, self control, patience, joy, grace and a sense of well being.
K
Yes he is talking about unbelievers, but what some don't want to realize is that our actions determine if we are believers or unbelievers !!!
That is the whole point here........
They may claim to be believers in Christ but if they are walking contrary to the fruit of the Spirit then they are not, instead they are enemies of the cross !!!
Jesus made this same teaching in Matthew 25 and Luke 12, where He showed that disobedience to His teaching is unbelief !!!
E
Your right.
1. Because God is the one who powers faith As you said over and over again, God is powerful enough.. Yet you do not believe it, or you would believe as I do.
2. Because God never fails us, People lose faith in others. because people let them down. They do not lose faiht in anyone, who never lets them down.
Either way, God gets the credit and all the glory, because it was all based in him.
Those who think otherwise? I do not believe they ever had faith to begin with thats why they think salvation is so fragil it can be lost.
Your interpretations are flawed. Based on your belief system. Jesus is not even talking about losing salvation in matt 24, his contect wsd theee tribulation period. and saving your life to the end when Christ returned.
Dude, You claim God has power to chance a person. then you deny it, by saying a person may not be changed enough.. and can lose it.
I am not back biting you, I am stating facts. You do not like those fact. so you ignore me and do all kinds of stuff..
That will never take away from the facts.
Calvin does not need to be exposed. legalism needs to be exposed. It leads people to hell..
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J
"Faith without works is dead."
"God examines the motives of the heart."
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that the works we do are evidence of what is at work in our hearts, with what is going on inside of our hearts being the deciding factor. Do we want more of God or more of the world? Who do we set our hearts on serving?
"God examines the motives of the heart."
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that the works we do are evidence of what is at work in our hearts, with what is going on inside of our hearts being the deciding factor. Do we want more of God or more of the world? Who do we set our hearts on serving?
C
No, doubting your salvation for no good reason is bad and lying to people that they can simply live in fornication or hate and unforgiveness can lead people to hell.
Someone can loose it. I lost it. I almost died. I was deceived and lived in sin. I had to convert again. I wanted a man. That was my idol. I was doing great when I was married. I spoke to another woman in the same situation. She's an atheist now. Don't tell me she's still saved or wasn't saved to begin with. It happens. God warned me that if I would get into a relationship with a guy we would both go to hell, because he only calls himself a christian but uses drugs and doesn't want to marry, wants pervert stuff, doesn't want to be set free from porn and drugs. Says God is okay with it. I saw us both falling in hell as a warning. That is no false teaching. It doesn't mean that if I haven't overcome a bad habit that I am doomed. Then I just need prayer and to be lead in repentance, deliverance. God looks at the heart and babies haven't overcome the wicked one, so they stumble and simply need to grow up.
Someone can loose it. I lost it. I almost died. I was deceived and lived in sin. I had to convert again. I wanted a man. That was my idol. I was doing great when I was married. I spoke to another woman in the same situation. She's an atheist now. Don't tell me she's still saved or wasn't saved to begin with. It happens. God warned me that if I would get into a relationship with a guy we would both go to hell, because he only calls himself a christian but uses drugs and doesn't want to marry, wants pervert stuff, doesn't want to be set free from porn and drugs. Says God is okay with it. I saw us both falling in hell as a warning. That is no false teaching. It doesn't mean that if I haven't overcome a bad habit that I am doomed. Then I just need prayer and to be lead in repentance, deliverance. God looks at the heart and babies haven't overcome the wicked one, so they stumble and simply need to grow up.
This is why EG will continually write as he does because he believes everyone who does not follow OSAS is not saved.
Now if EG had had a real emotional encounter with Jesus, would he hold on to such an idea, or rather this is an indication of his grasp of religion which gives him reassurance, rather than the uncertainty of knowing people and how they feel, which actually defines the quality of ones relationships and not pure platonic give and take.
When Jesus rejected people who claimed to know Him, the basis of the rejection was on the fact they did evil or sin.
So behaviour matters, it is not a minor issue, it defines who we are as it is the fruit of our hearts, like our words.
But hey the cross did not mean we could literally walk righteously, it was just to create a facade so we could pretend, or say the words but still be slaves to our sins.
Now if EG had had a real emotional encounter with Jesus, would he hold on to such an idea, or rather this is an indication of his grasp of religion which gives him reassurance, rather than the uncertainty of knowing people and how they feel, which actually defines the quality of ones relationships and not pure platonic give and take.
When Jesus rejected people who claimed to know Him, the basis of the rejection was on the fact they did evil or sin.
So behaviour matters, it is not a minor issue, it defines who we are as it is the fruit of our hearts, like our words.
But hey the cross did not mean we could literally walk righteously, it was just to create a facade so we could pretend, or say the words but still be slaves to our sins.
K
Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Acts 20:28-31
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[h=1]James 5:19-20[/h]19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the Truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Acts 20:28-31
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[h=1]James 5:19-20[/h]19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the Truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Doctrine in general is downplayed.
We are too much into Church growth bending over backwards to give the visiting adult kiddies a fun and 'relevant' time.
Don't bring up sin and judgment and other icky things as that will scare off the people (interpreted as $$).
Don't bring up specific sins as that is so judgmental and not politically correct.
Keep the pablum running with videos and clown acts that'll keep their attention and the fun seekers coming.
Don't dive into doctrinal issues, that is just something they fought over in the 17th century.
I'm OK, you're OK unless you fail to smile.
I think this is the gist of the OP, not what is the 'perfect doctrine'.
We are too much into Church growth bending over backwards to give the visiting adult kiddies a fun and 'relevant' time.
Don't bring up sin and judgment and other icky things as that will scare off the people (interpreted as $$).
Don't bring up specific sins as that is so judgmental and not politically correct.
Keep the pablum running with videos and clown acts that'll keep their attention and the fun seekers coming.
Don't dive into doctrinal issues, that is just something they fought over in the 17th century.
I'm OK, you're OK unless you fail to smile.
I think this is the gist of the OP, not what is the 'perfect doctrine'.
L
My biggest complaint with churches I have visited thus far and the messages I have received while there are that the whole activity seems to be more about getting people in the pews than it does to actually share the Gospel with them.
Now, I know I'm a weird guy so what works for me probably wouldn't work for someone else but:
If a fire-and-brimstone preacher was to shake an old finger at me and tell me I was wallowing in sin and needed to immediately repent and beg Jesus for his saving grace...that would go a lot farther with me than a flabby handshake and a chocolate chip cookie and tepid coffee.
Now, I know I'm a weird guy so what works for me probably wouldn't work for someone else but:
If a fire-and-brimstone preacher was to shake an old finger at me and tell me I was wallowing in sin and needed to immediately repent and beg Jesus for his saving grace...that would go a lot farther with me than a flabby handshake and a chocolate chip cookie and tepid coffee.