Speaking in tongues

[CS1]

Actually we do not come to a different context. We arrive at the point that tongues were present when a person got saved and spoke in tongues as a spontaneous response to the Holy Spirit. A confirmation sign present for unsaved Jews not for Gentiles.

We do not pray or speak in unknown tongues because we have received the Spirit of adoption and we now are able to speak to our God as Father. No vail between nor do we shield ourselves from Him.

Paul never teaches that unknown tongues were of any value in the church. There was always a need for understanding what was said that all might increase in knowledge. Every contrast Paul presents underscores the need for understanding.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No you assume that. Acts 2 proves that wrong . Well if you think Paul never taught unknown tongues were of any value in the church would be correct when you leave out 10 verses from chapter 14 as you choose to do

verse1cor 14: 2: For he who speaks in an unknown tongues does not speak to men , but to God
No value speaking to God huh?

 

[notuptome]

The event in Acts 2 did not happen the same way as we read all of the book of Acts. Why? because it was the first time the Holy was poured out on all flesh as Peter said it was quoting Joel 2. You cannot build away from what Peter said it was . Peter at the time he spoke this was the authority because the Holy Spirit gave him these scriptures unless you do not believe that.

The basic elements are there. Folks were filled with the Holy Spirit and spontaneously spoke in tongues. Those present heard them knew what they were and understood them.

Peter revealed that Pentecost was a partial fulfillment of Joel 2. The rest to be fulfilled at out Lords return.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

No you assume that. Acts 2 proves that wrong . Well if you think Paul never taught unknown tongues were of any value in the church would be correct when you leave out 10 verses from chapter 14 as you choose to do

verse1cor 14: 2: For he who speaks in an unknown tongues does not speak to men , but to God
No value speaking to God huh?

Well I received the Spirit of adoption not the spirit of bondage per Romans 8:15. I do not speak to my Father in heaven any differently than I do any person with whom I converse. As a child of God I speak freely with God.

You conflate 1 Cor 14:2. Paul is not suggesting that speaking to God without knowledge is a good thing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

It is the truth it just is inconvenient for those who wish to make far more of tongues than the bible makes of tongues.

Genesis set the context of tongues throughout the bible. Isaiah establishes how the Jews saw tongues. Acts demonstrates the purpose of tongues in the apostolic church.

You rely heavily on these three chapters in 1 Cor but you really need to develop a consistent understanding of tongues in the whole bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

no it is not . Gen 11 has nothing to do with the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit or acts 2 empowering of the Church.
they are contrasted . If one reads gen 11 and reads Acts 1:8 Where Jesus is speaking after HE said

1:8

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [a]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


gen 11 was done to stop empowerment of people who were together to work evil

Acts 2 the Holy Spirit was given to empower the church to BE a witness as Jesus said . Nothing to do with gen 11.

I am not heavily on 1cor 12-14 I have said many times The Book Of Acts which show more context to this event recorded many times and clearly the gentile churches were experiencing the same Gifting of the Holy Spirit , how dod I know this ? because 1cor 12 says so .
I do understand the full context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which 1cor 12-14 speaks about . And gen 11 has noting to do with. You are reading into the word of God.

 

[CS1]

The basic elements are there. Folks were filled with the Holy Spirit and spontaneously spoke in tongues. Those present heard them knew what they were and understood them.

Peter revealed that Pentecost was a partial fulfillment of Joel 2. The rest to be fulfilled at out Lords return.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

actually you also have to take what Jesus said in Acts 1: 8 with what Peter said , and then read in the entire book of Acts where this happen were you do not do . you interject gen 11 and over look what Jesus said about this event in Acts 2?
wrong

 

[CS1]

Well I received the Spirit of adoption not the spirit of bondage per Romans 8:15. I do not speak to my Father in heaven any differently than I do any person with whom I converse. As a child of God I speak freely with God.

You conflate 1 Cor 14:2. Paul is not suggesting that speaking to God without knowledge is a good thing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you are using one verse in Romans 8 to explain the chapter of 1cor 14 ?

your bias is very apparent.

 

[notuptome]

no it is not . Gen 11 has nothing to do with the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit or acts 2 empowering of the Church.
they are contrasted . If one reads gen 11 and reads Acts 1:8 Where Jesus is speaking after HE said

1:8

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [a]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


gen 11 was done to stop empowerment of people who were together to work evil

Acts 2 the Holy Spirit was given to empower the church to BE a witness as Jesus said . Nothing to do with gen 11.

I am not heavily on 1cor 12-14 I have said many times The Book Of Acts which show more context to this event recorded many times and clearly the gentile churches were experiencing the same Gifting of the Holy Spirit , how dod I know this ? because 1cor 12 says so .
I do understand the full context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which 1cor 12-14 speaks about . And gen 11 has noting to do with. You are reading into the word of God.

Of course every person that gets saved recieves the gift of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit no man is saved.

Gen 11 demonstrates thefirst appearance of languages. God confused language as a judgment on mankind because they were evil and attempting to approach God.

Without Gen 11 there would be no diversity of tongues. We would all speak the same tongue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

actually you also have to take what Jesus said in Acts 1: 8 with what Peter said , and then read in the entire book of Acts where this happen were you do not do . you interject gen 11 and over look what Jesus said about this event in Acts 2?
wrong

Really? You have not even made an effort to reconcile Acts to Corinthians. LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

It is the truth it just is inconvenient for those who wish to make far more of tongues than the bible makes of tongues.

Genesis set the context of tongues throughout the bible. Isaiah establishes how the Jews saw tongues. Acts demonstrates the purpose of tongues in the apostolic church.

You rely heavily on these three chapters in 1 Cor but you really need to develop a consistent understanding of tongues in the whole bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

gen 11 has nothing to do with Tongues in context to the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" no matter how many times you say it. Jesus sets the Context of tongues In Mark 16 which I'm shocked you would use due to those who say it was added .
the context of it since you used it and the Parallel of Acts 1:8 are seen with Luke 24:49
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Jesus never mentioned gen 11 in context to tongues but HE did in context to empowerment . Is Jesus authoritative on the topic ? Yes He is. Did Paul or Peter say anything different then what Jesus said the Power of the Holy Spirit is for? no they did not .

Does gen 11 contextually fit with What Jesus said in the Gospel, Acts , and 1cor 12-14 ?
Absolutely not.

 

[notuptome]

you are using one verse in Romans 8 to explain the chapter of 1cor 14 ?

your bias is very apparent.

LOL I consider all of the bible to be profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Of course every person that gets saved recieves the gift of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit no man is saved.

Gen 11 demonstrates thefirst appearance of languages. God confused language as a judgment on mankind because they were evil and attempting to approach God.

Without Gen 11 there would be no diversity of tongues. We would all speak the same tongue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE

again straw-man everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit that has been stated Repeatedly The Empowerment of the Holy Spirit is to be a what Jesus said " a Witness ". That is it the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to edify the believer and the body of Christ as 1cor 12 says .

 

[CS1]

Really? You have not even made an effort to reconcile Acts to Corinthians. LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

yes In have you have not seen it?

Acts = records the empowerment of the Apostles and the body of Christ
1cor 12-14= Instructs on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit as 1cor 12 states " NOW Concerning Spiritual gifts.
you did not see that?

 

[CS1]

LOL I consider all of the bible to be profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Of course you if it lines up with your bias . you have moved away from the gen 11 thing now being in context to tongues in the New testament. They have nothing to do with that . So without gen 11 in your opinion that leaves you with Is 28 which is quoted by Paul in 1 cor 14:21 which you need verses 22-40 to have full context.
Joel 2 = Acts 2
Is 28= 1cor 14:21-40
gen 11 = with the context of = tower of babel >.

 

[notuptome]

gen 11 has nothing to do with Tongues in context to the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" no matter how many times you say it. Jesus sets the Context of tongues In Mark 16 which I'm shocked you would use due to those who say it was added .
the context of it since you used it and the Parallel of Acts 1:8 are seen with Luke 24:49
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Jesus never mentioned gen 11 in context to tongues but HE did in context to empowerment . Is Jesus authoritative on the topic ? Yes He is. Did Paul or Peter say anything different then what Jesus said the Power of the Holy Spirit is for? no they did not .

Does gen 11 contextually fit with What Jesus said in the Gospel, Acts , and 1cor 12-14 ?
Absolutely not.

I do not rely upon Mark 16 except where it is supported by other passages of scripture. Without Gen 11 you do not have tongues. All the world would be of one language.

Tongues were a sign on Pentecost. The demonstrated the presence of the Holy Spirit. They were a miracle in the ears of the hearers not in the mouth of the speakers.

Jesus promised the authority to minister in the name of God. Tongues were a sign in the apostolic church to give the speaker authority as a man from God. The gift ended with the completion of the NT for we now have a complete bible from which to teach the gospel. The Holy Spirit now ministers through the word to bring men to a saving knowledge of Christ. The speaker is anointed to speak and God moves in the hearts of the hearers. Curious that God works through His Spirt and His word in the hearts of men just like tongues in Acts were heard in the ears of those present. Strange coincidence. LOL

You really need to reconsider that you do not take into your doctrine all of the word of God. All of Gods word is connected together to accomplish that which God intends. Gods word is never void or without application.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

yes In have you have not seen it?

Acts = records the empowerment of the Apostles and the body of Christ
1cor 12-14= Instructs on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit as 1cor 12 states " NOW Concerning Spiritual gifts.
you did not see that?

No you have not considered the Holy Spirits ministry is much greater than gifts. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit to preach the word of God and see men converted. Acts was about sinners getting saved.

1 Cor 12-14 is a correctional message to a church in disarray. In fact most of the book of Corinthians is to correct conduct that was not biblical. Communion was messed up and turned into a booze fest. Another believer was living in open incest and not being disciplined. Yep Corinth was a mess. This is what you think God wants you to emulate? LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

I do not rely upon Mark 16 except where it is supported by other passages of scripture. Without Gen 11 you do not have tongues. All the world would be of one language.



Jesus promised the authority to minister in the name of God. Tongues were a sign in the apostolic church to give the speaker authority as a man from God. gift ended with the completion of the NT for we now have a complete bible from which to teach the gospel. The Holy Spirit now ministers through the word to bring men to a saving knowledge of Christ. The speaker is anointed to speak and God moves in the hearts of the hearers. Curious that God works through His Spirt and His word in the hearts of men just like tongues in Acts were heard in the ears of those present. Strange coincidence. LOL

You really need to reconsider that you do not take into your doctrine all of the word of God. All of Gods word is connected together to accomplish that which God intends. Gods word is never void or without application.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

so the gen 11 account was God intervening to divide men with the same understanding to cause confusion and that gen 11 you contextually parallel with Acts 2 even after Peter says this is THAT which was spoken by the Prophet Joel?

You said

"Tongues were a sign on Pentecost. The demonstrated the presence of the Holy Spirit. They were a miracle in the ears of the hearers not in the mouth of the speakers."

No it was not the main reason . Acts 1:8 is the reason as Jesus said " to have power to be a witness to all the world .
there you go with that "You really need to reconsider that you do not take into your doctrine all of the word of God."

You have not shown contextually gen 11 and Acts 2 or 1:8 for that matter So you suggest the issue is my doctrine lol. what a joke. I am not the one trying to nail jello to the wall here you are. gen 11 has nothing to do with Acts 2. how do I know that because the bible does not say that or show that.

1. Jesus did not teach this
2. Peter did not teach this
3. Paul did not teach this

Deu 19:15 [ The Law Concerning Witnesses ] “One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.

Matt 18:16

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

2cor 13:1 [ Coming with Authority ] This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”

You cannot show three verse without allegorically using other verse to create a false narrative the Bible does not support; that say what you think of gen chpater 11.

Jesus doesn't provide or teach it. Peter did not, and Paul did not None of the older Prophets can say something different then what Jesus has said if they did it was due to limited revelation. And Jesus was not limited in that.
That is not my "doctrine"

That is how you establish what is authoritative, contextual , and authorial intent . Jesus did not say it teach it and old prophets cannot speak a counter-diction to the Lord. Therefore your understanding in misplaced

 

[CS1]

No you have not considered the Holy Spirits ministry is much greater than gifts. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit to preach the word of God and see men converted. Acts was about sinners getting saved.

1 Cor 12-14 is a correctional message to a church in disarray. In fact most of the book of Corinthians is to correct conduct that was not biblical. Communion was messed up and turned into a booze fest. Another believer was living in open incest and not being disciplined. Yep Corinth was a mess. This is what you think God wants you to emulate? LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

how can you say I have not ? you do not even know me LOL. I stated the empowering of the Holy Spirit was done for one purpose as Jesus said " to be a Witness of ME". that is it. Pentecostals make more of it then that i'm shocked you are .

 

[shrume]

Paul never teaches that unknown tongues were of any value in the church.

I don't understand how you can say that with a straight face, Roger.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

17) For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

You aren't reading what is written. Your position almost has to be willful blindness.

 

[RickyZ]

Guys, guys, CS1, yer wasting your time and energy. Go moderate!

 

[CS1]

Guys, guys, CS1, yer wasting your time and energy. Go moderate!

RickyZ
I am not wasting my time . I can sit down very well drink coffee and explain a biblical teaching and moderate the same time . I can also talk and chew Bubble gum . !!!!! don't yell at me please . If you have something to say concerning the discussion notuptome and I are having you are more then welcome to chime in. It is not my goal to get notuptome to agree with me but more to show Biblical context to those who will see it , and provide scriptures to support my understanding which has not been able to change from the Word of God.



Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they think they know.

It's hard to learn anything when you always feel the need to be the expert.

Mark 7:34 “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”


please remember that RickyZ

Thank you