Speaking in Tongues

[The_Watchers_2017]

Your comment about queasiness reminds me of an experience I had many years ago. A friend enjoyed collecting comic books as a hobby. I decided to tag along when they went in search of a specific edition. Wow. Were my "eyes" opened that day. As I trailed behind my friend I began feeling a slight feeling of queasiness. The further into the store we went the stronger the feeling got, when at last it began to effect my ability to breathe normally. It was at that point that revelation hit me like a cold bucket of water. Peering directly at me were "demonic fallen angels." There was depictions of them on comic book covers in every direction. I decided at that moment to leave the store and wait outside. The instant I exited the store my breathing returned to normal. It was at that point that I understood that demons/fallen angels were actually on the premises in the spiritual realm.

Many artists who do this kind of work undoubtedly think the ideas are the result of creative juices flowing from no where other than themselves. They are wrong. And no doubt would be shocked to realize their thoughts are being manipulated by the enemy. Satan and his crew want God's intended children to idolize them rather than the God that loved and died to save them. They draw the least suspecting into their web of deceit in ways many do not understand in an effort to take as many with them into the pits of hell because of their hatred for God.

It is through the gifts of the Spirit that God reveals many of the tactics of the enemy. And that is why, as you said, that the enemy fights so hard against the truth that spiritual gifts are still in operation today. The more people he keeps blind the more damage he can instill in them, and also limit them from helping those they love. I for one, as the story conveys, did not understand the connection between actual fallen angels and their influence in the case of comic books. It was only after experiencing the gift of discerning spirits that my eyes were open that day. Most often, opening doors to the spiritual realm happens through seemingly "innocent" ways.

I believe wholeheartedly that many have been, and will continue to be drawn back from the brink of hell through the gifts of the Spirit that God so graciously gave to the church for that exact purpose.

Amen!

i have researched Art for many years and believe these creations are literal entities that those in Hell are being tortured by. and i definitely agree about Comic books being Demonic. they are a perfect source for Evil to be introduced to an unknowing reader.

i remember so many experiences that i've ran into the invisible enemy Paul described.

one such experience has happened several times.
ever go some place and watch a dog or cat seem to be looking at something crawling up the walls and then seemingly walking on the ceiling? their hair standing up and the low growls coming from them like they're seeing an intruder. if you witness this, say, I Rebuke you Satan in the Name of Yeshua. suddenly the animals relax and can no longer see what was there because it has left.

but i am always amazed why animals can see spirits but we cannot. thank God He created dogs to be our protectors who alert us of invisible and tangible dangers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree someone must hear the gospel in order to receive Holy Ghost. But take a step back and think about Paul's question and what it reveals. His initial question addressed something he knew. There were times when people believed the gospel message yet did not receive the Holy Ghost right away. An example of this is seen in the Samaritans' experience. They did not receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost until days after they believed the gospel message and were baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12-18)

Why is this so important? Because people are being told that the Holy Ghost comes to dwell within them the moment they hear and believe the gospel message. The presented scriptures say otherwise. And scripture is the final word on any subject.

yes brother

“His initial question addressed something he knew. There were times when people believed the gospel message yet did not receive the Holy Ghost right away”

that’s my point look at what he’s saying and what they answer and what happens

“he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

( they hadn’t heard of any such Thing ) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. ( they we’re baptized by John before Jesus began preaching about the holy ghost like those in mark 1 )

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see what the m saying brother ? They hadn’t heard the part of the gospel message where a person receives the Holy Spirit , they had only been baptized for remission of sins remember none of these folks received the spirit at baptism either

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

they were like that group but never heard the part Jesus preached out the spirit they hadn’t even heard John preach about the holy ghost

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭


That’s the part they didn’t receive until Paul came along telling them about it , it’s a simple point we can’t believe if we don’t hear and THey hadn’t heard the promise of receiving the spirit

that’s why it’s so important to do this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t believe something we don’t hear about and can’t receive anything from God unless we believe

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they had originally heard this it would have been different

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

but instead they heard this part only because the rest hadn’t been spoken yet

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They had that but never heard this until Paul came along

be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

no one received the spirit until Jesus gave it and the method is through hearing and believing his gospel

 

[Wansvic]

that is possible... but if I were trying to "prove" a point, I don't believe I would use a scripture that is almost universally accepted as not being a part of the original script.... being "added" at a much later date.
If it (my original question) was a true statement, there should be many unsullied scriptures that validate it.

Mark's comment does confirm what is revealed in the multiple experiential scriptures I shared previously.

I've included evidence that speaks to the authenticity of the long ending of the Gospel of Mark, I thought might be of interest:

"There are a few early extant copies of the Bible containing the Gospel of Mark which do NOT include the Long Ending of Mark 16:9-20:

Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus—-300’s.
Syriac Sinaitucus—late 300’s
Codex Bobiensis—c. 300-400’s
Armenian Version Manuscript—411-450
Miniscule 304—1100’s

There are, however, very early evidences for the inclusion of Mark 16:9-20 which precede in time the above Bibles from the 300’s to 1100’s by several hundred years.

Irenaeus (c. 130-202), a very early writer, was a Christian theologian and minister who spent his adult life defending orthodoxy and fighting heresies, writes in Against Heresies 3.10.6:“Also, towards the conclusion of his Gospel Mark says: ‘So then, after the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sits on the right hand of God’ (Mark 16:19) confirming what had been spoken by the prophet: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit on My right hand, until I make Your foes Your footstool.’ (Psalm 110:1) Thus God and the Father are truly one and the same; He who was announced by the prophets, and handed down by the true Gospel; whom we Christians worship and love with the whole heart, as the Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things therein.”

Clearly Irenaeus, living about 200 years before Sinaiticus or Vaticanus were copied, KNEW the Long Ending of Mark and quotes a verse from it.

Justin Martyr (c. 100-165), one of the first and best apologists for the faith, in his First Apology uses words in Mark 16:20 as a fulfillment of Messianic prophecy in his examination of Psalm 110. His pupil Tatian the Syrian (c.120-180), writer and theologian, in his Diatessaron (Harmony of the Gospels) incorporates material from all the four Gospels and includes Mark 16:9-20.

Hippolytus (170-235 A.D.) was a contemporary of Irenaeus. He was bishop of Portus near Rome from 190-227 A.D. In his writings in one of the fragments he quotes Mark 16:17,18 and when speaking of Christ has reference to Verse 19.

Irenaeus, Justin, Tatian and Hippolytus were very early Christian men (100’s) who were born and raised when some who had heard/seen Jesus as youngsters or teens and some of the Seventy Disciples were still alive. It is very persuasive that all four of them, born in the 100’s AD, KNEW AND CITED the Long Ending of Mark, the ending that has been traditionally in the New Testament. The book by Irenaeus quoting Mark 16:19 is OLDER than the earliest manuscripts we have of the Gospel of Mark. These four attestations of the Long Ending being included in Mark pre-date any edition of any other early Bibles.

Writers in the 200’s long before the Codex Vaticanus, also, used the Longer Ending of Mark: Porphyry (234-305 AD) did and in the De Rebaptismate (On Re-baptism) by an unknown author included The Longer Ending. The other manuscripts and fragments of Mark 16:9-20 being extant and used over the early centuries are too numerous to mention. In the c. 300’s or earlier in the Calendar of Greek Church lessons they used Mark 16:9-20 as the verses to be read on Ascension Day and on St. Mary Magdalene’s Day.

Vincentius (died c. 304 AD), Bishop of Thibori, at the 7th Council of Carthage held under Cyprian in 256 in the presence of the 87 assembled African bishops, quoted Mark 16:17,18 which was recorded in the minutes.

Ambrose (374-397 A.D.), Archbishop of Milan, quoted from the Long Ending of Mark’s Gospel. In the late 300’s Ambrose cites Mark’s Gospel verse 15 some 4 times: Verses 16, 17, 18 each 3 times: Verse 20 once.

Jerome (331–420 A.D.). At the request of Pope Damasus I for a Latin revision of the Bible, Jerome produced the official Catholic version of the Bible called the Latin Vulgate. Jerome consulted several manuscripts, all of which contained the The Long Ending. His confirmation of Mark 16:9-20 is seen in the Vulgate.

In that one Armenian MS, Matenadaran 2374, of the Gospels dated 986, a note written in the marginalia between Mark 16:8 and 16:9 says, “Ariston ertzou” meaning “By Ariston the Elder/Priest.” That one allusion to an unknown Ariston by an unknown scribe possessing unknown sources has given lots of fire to the recent controversy. It has driven untold amounts of modern “scholars” to prove that the Long Ending, so called, of the Gospel of Mark was definitely not written by John Mark. It is an important assertion because it questions the doctrine of verbal inspiration of the Bible as did the scholarly conclusion that the first five books of the Old Testament were not written by Moses but were cobbled together from unknown sources (Q sources) pre-dating Moses by hundreds of years.

As can be seen, The Long Ending in Mark included in Mark’s Gospel the verses 16: 9-20 for hundreds of years in the Early Church. This is a strong refutation of “scholarly speculations” 1,600 years AFTER Mark wrote his Gospel.—Sandra Sweeny Silver

https://earlychurchhistory.org/beliefs-2/long-or-short-ending-in-mark/

 

[Wansvic]

Maybe not everything, but there's more of an incentive to write whatever sells—true or false. They don't write because they have anything of value to communicate but because they must to keep the money coming in. Their loyalty is to their publisher (not God), who tells them what to write.

I'm not applying "logic" to anything. These are just the facts.

You sure have a pessimistic view of most everything.

Did you ever consider that Max Lucados' talent, as with everyone, originates with God for a purpose? God uses people, let me say that again; God uses people who He equips in various ways to draw others unto Himself. In doing so, multitudes are reached. And remember, you can't out give God. Therefore, the more a person sows the more they will reap. And why? Because God said so. Those who reap in excess as a result of God's gifting are able to sow in excess. We are all on this journey to affect others for the Lord. We can hide the gift God's given to make others happy, like yourself, or ignore the naysayers and make both God and those touched happy.

As I was writing this post, it occurred to me that Max Lucado's willingness to be used of God resulted in his reaping something far more valuable then money that will continue to assist in ministry. He received the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

Amen!

i have researched Art for many years and believe these creations are literal entities that those in Hell are being tortured by. and i definitely agree about Comic books being Demonic. they are a perfect source for Evil to be introduced to an unknowing reader.

i remember so many experiences that i've ran into the invisible enemy Paul described.

one such experience has happened several times.
ever go some place and watch a dog or cat seem to be looking at something crawling up the walls and then seemingly walking on the ceiling? their hair standing up and the low growls coming from them like they're seeing an intruder. if you witness this, say, I Rebuke you Satan in the Name of Yeshua. suddenly the animals relax and can no longer see what was there because it has left.

but i am always amazed why animals can see spirits but we cannot. thank God He created dogs to be our protectors who alert us of invisible and tangible dangers.

Never thought about the possibility. Interesting.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Did you ever consider that Max Lucados' talent, as with everyone, originates with God for a purpose?

No, that never occurred to me. At least not as far as Lucado is concerned.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Max Lucado

 

[Wansvic]

yes brother

“His initial question addressed something he knew. There were times when people believed the gospel message yet did not receive the Holy Ghost right away”

that’s my point look at what he’s saying and what they answer and what happens

“he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

( they hadn’t heard of any such Thing ) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. ( they we’re baptized by John before Jesus began preaching about the holy ghost like those in mark 1 )

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see what the m saying brother ? They hadn’t heard the part of the gospel message where a person receives the Holy Spirit , they had only been baptized for remission of sins remember none of these folks received the spirit at baptism either

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

they were like that group but never heard the part Jesus preached out the spirit they hadn’t even heard John preach about the holy ghost

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭


That’s the part they didn’t receive until Paul came along telling them about it , it’s a simple point we can’t believe if we don’t hear and THey hadn’t heard the promise of receiving the spirit

that’s why it’s so important to do this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t believe something we don’t hear about and can’t receive anything from God unless we believe

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they had originally heard this it would have been different

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

but instead they heard this part only because the rest hadn’t been spoken yet

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They had that but never heard this until Paul came along

be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

no one received the spirit until Jesus gave it and the method is through hearing and believing his gospel

Also relevant is Paul’s question reveals two things:, (Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?)

1. The Holy Ghost is not automatically received when a person hears the gospel message. (the two are separate events) Believing the message indicates a person will receive the Holy Ghost at some point.

2. There is evidence that causes a person to know the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost took place.

After the Ephesus disciples experience recorded in Acts 19:1-6 they could have easily answered Paul's question by summarizing what happened. Yes. We believed the gospel message. And we submitted to being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection. And, the next thing that happened was the Holy Ghost came to dwell inside of us. We were sure it happened because each one of us began speaking in tongues.

 

[DavidTree]

yes brother

“His initial question addressed something he knew. There were times when people believed the gospel message yet did not receive the Holy Ghost right away”

that’s my point look at what he’s saying and what they answer and what happens

“he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

( they hadn’t heard of any such Thing ) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. ( they we’re baptized by John before Jesus began preaching about the holy ghost like those in mark 1 )

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see what the m saying brother ? They hadn’t heard the part of the gospel message where a person receives the Holy Spirit , they had only been baptized for remission of sins remember none of these folks received the spirit at baptism either

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

they were like that group but never heard the part Jesus preached out the spirit they hadn’t even heard John preach about the holy ghost

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭


That’s the part they didn’t receive until Paul came along telling them about it , it’s a simple point we can’t believe if we don’t hear and THey hadn’t heard the promise of receiving the spirit

that’s why it’s so important to do this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t believe something we don’t hear about and can’t receive anything from God unless we believe

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they had originally heard this it would have been different

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

but instead they heard this part only because the rest hadn’t been spoken yet

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They had that but never heard this until Paul came along

be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

no one received the spirit until Jesus gave it and the method is through hearing and believing his gospel

Find out in the Scriptures why they believed on Christ but never heard of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Same thing continues to this day and even worse in most churches ie John Mcarthur and Baptists to name a few.

 

[Beckie]

It's called Christianity, guess what, the one it is named after even rose from the dead and while here, modeled how we are to live.

Please help me understand why you believe John gave Jesus His anointing?

 

[shittim]

it's in the gospels

 

[DavidTree]

what do you do when two Christian’s read the same scriptures and understand it differently ?

EASY = it is always a heart issue

Some hearts are open to the Scripture while others have walls built from fear, unbelief, prejudice, religion, respect of persons, etc

When each of us desire truth more then anything else, those walls start to crumble.

Peace

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

[Are we supposed to be impressed?]

First of all, my post was addressed to DIT; second of all, I wasn't trying to impress anyone. Lastly, it is a good thing that we use faith for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that we can be more effective in our walk with the Lord.

Just saying, 🤠

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Find out in the Scriptures why they believed on Christ but never heard of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Same thing continues to this day and even worse in most churches ie John Mcarthur and Baptists to name a few.

yeah it’s pretty plain they hadn’t heard about the holt spirit so they couldn’t have received the Holy Spirit

“and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

receiving the Holy Spirit is something Jesus taught believers John mentions it but Jesus teaches it

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 20-21, 23-26‬ ‭

they hadn’t heard that part about receiving the Holy Spirit they didn’t even know there was such a promise in the gospel but Paul informed them and they received faith

“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

they hadn’t heard that part only heard about John baptizing for remission of sins Paul’s solution is Preach exactly what John had preached which they didn’t recognize

“So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance.

He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:3-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

some will explain Paul’s miraculous power to give the holt ghost by touching them , truthfully it was the information paul shared with them informing them of faith in Christ and the existance and promise of the holt ghost which they were ignorant of beforehand so couldn’t possibly receive the spirit not believing because they hadn’t heard

the only way to receive the spirit is how Jesus and the apostles explains the foundation and requirement is that we hear bout it from the gospel

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

in short brother we need to believe what the gospel declares in order to have faith they didn’t believe any thy ong about thy spirit because they hadn’t even heard of such a thing son thy y couldn’t have received the spirit by faith

everything in Christ is based on that same principle if we hear and believe the gospel we’re going to find out it’s absolutely true

“He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

when we talk about belief it’s needs to be in what God declared about everything not what we imagine everyone believes something Christian’s believe to gospel including the doctrine preached by the lord regarding receiving his Holy Spirit and being called the children of God but we have to hear about it and not reject it in order to have faith in it

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Also relevant is Paul’s question reveals two things:, (Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?)

1. The Holy Ghost is not automatically received when a person hears the gospel message. (the two are separate events) Believing the message indicates a person will receive the Holy Ghost at some point.

2. There is evidence that causes a person to know the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost took place.

After the Ephesus disciples experience recorded in Acts 19:1-6 they could have easily answered Paul's question by summarizing what happened. Yes. We believed the gospel message. And we submitted to being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection. And, the next thing that happened was the Holy Ghost came to dwell inside of us. We were sure it happened because each one of us began speaking in tongues.

amen brother why I’m saying is receiving the holy spirit of Jesus christ is part of the gospel message we need to hear

they hadn’t heard that part , they were getting baptized based solely on remission of sins and not the giving of a new covenant spoken by Jesus by his Holy Spirit

They had heard about the coming atonement and remission of sins from the prophets things like this

“But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

But what they hadn’t recognized from prophecy is the message of receiving the holt ghost of Jesus Christ they didn’t know this part no one had told them

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 21, 23-26‬

because they hadn’t been informed of that part they couldn’t receive it by faith so this stuff wouldn’t make any sense

“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭

without the foundation of the doctrine this wouldn’t make any sense you have to forst hear about the promise of the holt ghost is all I’m saying brother if we hear Christs promises we can receive them if we don’t we can’t receive them or even know they exist

 

[DavidTree]

yeah it’s pretty plain they hadn’t heard about the holt spirit so they couldn’t have received the Holy Spirit

“and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

receiving the Holy Spirit is something Jesus taught believers John mentions it but Jesus teaches it

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 20-21, 23-26‬ ‭

they hadn’t heard that part about receiving the Holy Spirit they didn’t even know there was such a promise in the gospel but Paul informed them and they received faith

“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

they hadn’t heard that part only heard about John baptizing for remission of sins Paul’s solution is Preach exactly what John had preached which they didn’t recognize

“So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance.

He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:3-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

some will explain Paul’s miraculous power to give the holt ghost by touching them , truthfully it was the information paul shared with them informing them of faith in Christ and the existance and promise of the holt ghost which they were ignorant of beforehand so couldn’t possibly receive the spirit not believing because they hadn’t heard

the only way to receive the spirit is how Jesus and the apostles explains the foundation and requirement is that we hear bout it from the gospel

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

in short brother we need to believe what the gospel declares in order to have faith they didn’t believe any thy ong about thy spirit because they hadn’t even heard of such a thing son thy y couldn’t have received the spirit by faith

everything in Christ is based on that same principle if we hear and believe the gospel we’re going to find out it’s absolutely true

“He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

when we talk about belief it’s needs to be in what God declared about everything not what we imagine everyone believes something Christian’s believe to gospel including the doctrine preached by the lord regarding receiving his Holy Spirit and being called the children of God but we have to hear about it and not reject it in order to have faith in it

They believed John's preaching which included believing in Christ.

Notice that Paul did not preach the Gospel to these disciples = only the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which they did not hesitate on.

Same is true today.

Our Heavenly FATHER, His SON and the HOLY SPIRIT knew exactly what to record for His Children.

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow.
It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They believed John's preaching which included believing in Christ.

Notice that Paul did not preach the Gospel to these disciples = only the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which they did not hesitate on.

Same is true today.

Our Heavenly FATHER, His SON and the HOLY SPIRIT knew exactly what to record for His Children.

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow.
It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

brother it’s hard to discuss the Bible with you let’s simplify

“and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬


had tbey heard about the holy spirit ? Yes or no ?

instead of explaining first acknolwedge had those men heard about the holt ghost at all that the holt spirit even existed ?

then consider this

“How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s too basic to argue about lol if I gave you a billion dollars opened you an account at a bank but never told you I did that you would never benefit from a dime of it

the only reason would be you didn’t hear about this gift I’d given you

what I’m saying is basic and simple and there’s no angle for you to argue about this is my basic simple point

if you don’t hear what God said you can’t receive what he said

the reason to y hadn’t received the spirit is tbey hadn’t heard the spirit even existed


Paul and the apostles were witnessing the truth of the gospel including receiving the holt spirit they had to hear about it in order to have faith to receive it’s true of everything in the Bible faith requires us to hear what God said

they hadn’t heard of the Holy Spirit

and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””

ask yourself brother how could they have believed and received the Holy Spirit without having heard about it I think you’ll find a conundrum in that

 

[DavidTree]

brother it’s hard to discuss the Bible with you let’s simplify

“and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NIV‬‬


had tbey heard about the holy spirit ? Yes or no ?

instead of explaining first acknolwedge had those men heard about the holt ghost at all that the holt spirit even existed ?

then consider this

“How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14, 17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s too basic to argue about lol if I gave you a billion dollars opened you an account at a bank but never told you I did that you would never benefit from a dime of it

the only reason would be you didn’t hear about this gift I’d given you

what I’m saying is basic and simple and there’s no angle for you to argue about this is my basic simple point

if you don’t hear what God said you can’t receive what he said

the reason to y hadn’t received the spirit is tbey hadn’t heard the spirit even existed


Paul and the apostles were witnessing the truth of the gospel including receiving the holt spirit they had to hear about it in order to have faith to receive it’s true of everything in the Bible faith requires us to hear what God said

they hadn’t heard of the Holy Spirit

and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.””

ask yourself brother how could they have believed and received the Holy Spirit without having heard about it I think you’ll find a conundrum in that

Did you read my very short, two sentence post, #449?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Did you read my very short, two sentence post, #449?

no brother I’m just responding to our conversation not reading through every post but trying to stick to our discussion just say what you have to say and reply I’ll definitely read it but can you answer that simple yes or no question in the conversation ?

It’s basic they say “ no we haven’t even heard of the holy spirit “ Paul Has already asked them have you received it ? They hadn’t even heard of it they are now being informed and then they receive the spirit

here’s my frustration brother my point is basic and simple they hadn’t heard the message about receiving the Holy Spirit so they hadn’t received it

sometimes I feel like you just naturally want to argue or maybe contend is a better word about anything possible

it feels like your still arguing about two separate baptisms again also from about two months ago

 

[Wansvic]

They believed John's preaching which included believing in Christ.

Notice that Paul did not preach the Gospel to these disciples = only the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which they did not hesitate on.

Same is true today.

Our Heavenly FATHER, His SON and the HOLY SPIRIT knew exactly what to record for His Children.

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow.
It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

The record doesn't provide a minute by minute account of everything that was said. However, the record does include action the group took indicating they were responding to gospel information provided by Paul. Their experience lines up with what was said and experienced on the Day of Pentecost when the church was birthed. (Acts 2:2-4, 38-39)

Notice that in verse 5 the group was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is a reference to water baptism. Water baptism first introduced by John was later modified in include the name of the Lord Jesus in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. This truth about baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus being water baptism is revealed in scripture; specifically in Acts 10:47-48. After being rebaptized in water, Paul's assisted in the twelve being indwelt by the Holy Ghost as evidenced by their speaking in tongues.


"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:2-6