Speaking in Tongues
- Thread starter Wansvic
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Exactly. And after they were re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, Paul laid his hands on them afterwhich the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit happened. It wasn't until Paul laid his on hands on them, which is significant, as it shows that the gifts of the Spirit, those of a miraculous nature as listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 and not the Spirit itself which is received upon baptism pursuant to Acts 2:38, required the laying on of an apostle's hands to become manifested and transmitted. The power from on high (the miraculous gifts) as noted in Luke 24:49 and as discussed in Acts 1 and 2, was meant for the apostles, not evetyone as is the common erroneous belief today, and transmitted through them by the laying on of their hands, contrary to popular misbelief. A careful reading and study of the scriptures clearly indicates this.
I tend to agree with that assessment. I wonder why we never read of Cornelius laying his hands on someone and passing on those specific gifts?
Why would Paul state that he wished all the believers could speak in tongues like he did.... if tongues are to be for everyone, wouldn't it just be assumed that they all "had" it? .... but even he said that tongues were not nearly as important as other gifts.
Why would Paul state that he wished all the believers could speak in tongues like he did.... if tongues are to be for everyone, wouldn't it just be assumed that they all "had" it? .... but even he said that tongues were not nearly as important as other gifts.
Signs meaning ways God uses to show He is intervening on behalf of His children when circumstances arise that could bring harm. The concept is seen in Isaiah:
"But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: ..." Isa 43:1-5
"But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: ..." Isa 43:1-5
The Context of Cornelious was Gentiles accepted by Christ as Peter was told by Jesus to go to them.
The laying on of hands was not only for the Apostles to do. Who laid their hands on paul when he was blind to receive the Holy Spirit?
It was not an Apostle, but a disciple named Ananias Acts chapter 9:10.
Also, Peter did not lay hands on Cornelious Acts 10:44.
One thing you said, that Paul said that is not said in 1corthians chapter 12.
".... but even he said that tongues were not nearly as important as other gifts."
Paul said no such thing. Paul talks about the diversity of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
What paul is saying in 1cor 12:12-31
:31 says But ernestly desire the best gifts Yet I will show you a more excellent way the way is Love as he continues in chapter 13 where the context continues.
The best gifts doesn' t mean tongues in not one of them Paul is saying desires the best gift to achieve the work of the Lord.
does tongues help one who is needing healing? or does prophesying help one who is needing a the gift of faith? or work of knowledge to help one needing working of mircles ? we must seek and desire the best gifts to do what is needed at the time.
That is what Paul is saying as we read in the unit chapters of 1cor 12 thru 14 Paul reinforces that point in chapter 14.
Paul says I whi all would be in tongues but rather you prophesy for he who prophesied is greater he who speaks in tongues
UNLESS there is indeed and interpretation. 1cor 14:5
Again the context of of Greater means effectiveness in the church setting unless the tongues is interpreted.
The laying on of hands was not only for the Apostles to do. Who laid their hands on paul when he was blind to receive the Holy Spirit?
It was not an Apostle, but a disciple named Ananias Acts chapter 9:10.
Also, Peter did not lay hands on Cornelious Acts 10:44.
One thing you said, that Paul said that is not said in 1corthians chapter 12.
".... but even he said that tongues were not nearly as important as other gifts."
Paul said no such thing. Paul talks about the diversity of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
What paul is saying in 1cor 12:12-31
:31 says But ernestly desire the best gifts Yet I will show you a more excellent way the way is Love as he continues in chapter 13 where the context continues.
The best gifts doesn' t mean tongues in not one of them Paul is saying desires the best gift to achieve the work of the Lord.
does tongues help one who is needing healing? or does prophesying help one who is needing a the gift of faith? or work of knowledge to help one needing working of mircles ? we must seek and desire the best gifts to do what is needed at the time.
That is what Paul is saying as we read in the unit chapters of 1cor 12 thru 14 Paul reinforces that point in chapter 14.
Paul says I whi all would be in tongues but rather you prophesy for he who prophesied is greater he who speaks in tongues
UNLESS there is indeed and interpretation. 1cor 14:5
Again the context of of Greater means effectiveness in the church setting unless the tongues is interpreted.
-
1
- Show all
well, there's chapter 14 of that letter...
"5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification."
Ananias did not lay hands on Paul to impart the Spirit.... he laid hands on Paul so that he would get his sight back....
After that happened, Paul immediately rose up and was baptized.... before he even ate or drank anything...
"12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.”
Being immediately baptized showed Paul following what Peter preached.... when you repent and are baptized, you WILL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....
"5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification."
Ananias did not lay hands on Paul to impart the Spirit.... he laid hands on Paul so that he would get his sight back....
After that happened, Paul immediately rose up and was baptized.... before he even ate or drank anything...
"12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.”
Being immediately baptized showed Paul following what Peter preached.... when you repent and are baptized, you WILL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....
I never said that tongues were not one of the gifts.
What I strongly disagree with is the notion being put forth in this thread, as it is in every thread about this, that ALL believers HAVE to speak in tongues, or they are either lacking in faith, or belief.
That is simply un-scriptural at best, and extremely harmful to new believers, at worst.
What I strongly disagree with is the notion being put forth in this thread, as it is in every thread about this, that ALL believers HAVE to speak in tongues, or they are either lacking in faith, or belief.
That is simply un-scriptural at best, and extremely harmful to new believers, at worst.
context and what the text says matters:
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
you need to read on sir,
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord [d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Hey something I actually agree with you on David tree...! 
Yes, putting Pentecost as the beginning point ignores the work done by Jesus with His disciples.
Mathew 18 has a church discipline process before Pentecost.
Matthew 16:20 has Jesus building His church. This is before Pentecost.
Pentecost .. the Holy Spirit is empowering the already established church Jesus began with His disciples.
It's the beginning of the administration of the Holy Spirit in the church, but not the beginning of the church.
Yes, putting Pentecost as the beginning point ignores the work done by Jesus with His disciples.
Mathew 18 has a church discipline process before Pentecost.
Matthew 16:20 has Jesus building His church. This is before Pentecost.
Pentecost .. the Holy Spirit is empowering the already established church Jesus began with His disciples.
It's the beginning of the administration of the Holy Spirit in the church, but not the beginning of the church.
Don't lose sight of the fact that one of the requirements in order to be reborn (spiritual rebirth) for those in the NT is to be indwelt by the Holy Ghost. And this was not possible until after the resurrection of Jesus. (See below) As scripture confirms, Jesus was the first born of many. (1 Cor. 15:20-24, Romans 8:29)
"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (a reference to speaking in tongues) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38-39
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Cor 15:20-24
God's commands associated with receiving one's spiritual rebirth (being reborn) are relevant to those living since the NT church was birthed after Jesus poured out the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:2-4, 36-42) God has required belief and obedience from people in various ways throughout different dispensations of time.
Thanks, but, yes, I did read that, and I understood it.
That's why I pointed out that after Ananias laid hands on him to restore his sight, Paul immediately was baptized, which, according to Peter's teaching at Pentecost, ensured that he WOULD receive the Spirit.
Ananias' laying hands on Paul was to restore his sight.... not to give him the Spirit. Receiving the Spirit was a gift, given after repentance and baptism.
That's why I pointed out that after Ananias laid hands on him to restore his sight, Paul immediately was baptized, which, according to Peter's teaching at Pentecost, ensured that he WOULD receive the Spirit.
Ananias' laying hands on Paul was to restore his sight.... not to give him the Spirit. Receiving the Spirit was a gift, given after repentance and baptism.
And in reality, it doesn't matter, one way or the other with Paul's belief.
Bottom line for me is, we were taught by Peter at Pentecost what was needed for us to receive the indwelling Spirit.
Repent and be baptized. We WILL receive the Spirit.... it's a promise.
Whether you speak in tongues or don't is not a salvation issue.... never has been, and if people try to MAKE it a salvation issue, they are adding to the Word of God... and that's a dangerous road to go down.
Bottom line for me is, we were taught by Peter at Pentecost what was needed for us to receive the indwelling Spirit.
Repent and be baptized. We WILL receive the Spirit.... it's a promise.
Whether you speak in tongues or don't is not a salvation issue.... never has been, and if people try to MAKE it a salvation issue, they are adding to the Word of God... and that's a dangerous road to go down.
-
1
- Show all
Salvation by grace thru faith is the way its always been. David believed in a Redeemer, so did Job. The OT prophets testify of Jesus. The festivals show Jesus revealed in the tabernacle and passover among other things.
'The church' began with JC and His disciples, local and visible, the Family of God with Adam as the first believer.
Repeat: the Family of God and the Body of Christ are not the same entity.
The Kingdom of God is not the body of Christ either.
Kingdom.. has no ordinances.
Body.. has ordinances of Lord's Supper and tithing.
Kingdom is scattered.. Body is a local assembly.
Kingdom includes every believer.
A body ...only believers who are baptised by immersion in water believers and some believers aren't part of one.
Kingdom.. no process for discipline...
A body... Mathew 18: 19-20 has the process.
The idea of a universal, mystical body of Christ is foreign to scripture.
It is always local and visible.
Even in heaven when all believers become one body.. it is still local and visible.
'The church' began with JC and His disciples, local and visible, the Family of God with Adam as the first believer.
Repeat: the Family of God and the Body of Christ are not the same entity.
The Kingdom of God is not the body of Christ either.
Kingdom.. has no ordinances.
Body.. has ordinances of Lord's Supper and tithing.
Kingdom is scattered.. Body is a local assembly.
Kingdom includes every believer.
A body ...only believers who are baptised by immersion in water believers and some believers aren't part of one.
Kingdom.. no process for discipline...
A body... Mathew 18: 19-20 has the process.
The idea of a universal, mystical body of Christ is foreign to scripture.
It is always local and visible.
Even in heaven when all believers become one body.. it is still local and visible.
What's interesting is the lengths a person will go to, to try and dispel the fact that God's word states those who believe will speak in tongues. This whole conversation concerning Mark 16:18 began in an attempt to disprove the reality as specifically stated in Mark 16:17. The NT believer of the entire gospel will speak in tongues as scripture reveals. Sadly attempts at distorting scripture cause many to stumble at that truth.
-
1
- Show all
To receive his sight was not the only reason because that was not the only thing done.
"Has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
It doesn't say there baptized in water. Nor did Jesus say to Baptize him.
Before Ananias laid his hands on Paul, his words are to be mentioned because the bible recorded them.
Ananias is speaking here:
he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
That is in addition to receiving his sight.
"has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
The text doesn't say Paul Spoke in Tongues; however, we know from that point on HE was filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized.
Jesus' words were not recorded as saying anything to Ananias about the Filling of the Holy Spirit in context to paul. Still, Ananias did not go rogue in telling Paul that.
You once referenced a scripture that in my opinion reflects what my response should be in light of your comments:
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;" 2 Tim. 2:20-25
Our job is to plant and/or water seeds of truth. And it is God who provides the increase. (revelation) I sincerely hope at one point the truth will be revealed to you.
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;" 2 Tim. 2:20-25
Our job is to plant and/or water seeds of truth. And it is God who provides the increase. (revelation) I sincerely hope at one point the truth will be revealed to you.
