Speaking in tongues

zone · May 23, 2013

lol....unlike the folks in your movement, i never claimed to be authoritative like the prophets and apostles.
i have never claimed God is speaking through me, or that He allows me to "read people's mail".

bye stephen

Stephen63 · May 23, 2013

Gotta go to work........BBL

zone · May 23, 2013

Stephen63 said:

aawwww......since you have not provided a shred of evidence that what you practice is any different from the charismatics (other than in name), what can i do for you?

you're clearly in a fit...but see, that's because you're wrong.
ya just are.

A-Omega · May 23, 2013

Do we have any tongues interpreters in this forum? I have always looked for one and never found one person who does interpreting.

inge · May 23, 2013

Fruit:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.Mat 3: 10-12

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Math 12:31-37

Fruit of the Spirit

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.Gal 5:22-26

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Jac 3:17

zone · May 23, 2013

inge said:

if you practice these stange-fire things like babbling - blaming that on the Spirit - attributing that to Him - and/or daring to speak for God claiming the Spirit is leading you to do it, i recommend you think long and hard about who is mocking and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

go find out.

SarahM777 · May 23, 2013

Stephen63 said:

1 Not worth replying to.

2 The truth according to who? Again is this truly from God or not and how do we know it?
How does one know that they are praising God or cursing Jesus?

3 UMM I still work and I was gone this morning. I am not on the computer 24/7.

4 Did you actually read what I said?

5 You didn't really answer my questions.

It was your choice to respond or not. Outside of the few times I addressed it to you
I am not expecting you to respond and I won't ask you any more.

inge · May 23, 2013

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebr 4:12

lisaxseperatedxmom · May 23, 2013

Tounges edify the 1 doing the speaking an interpretor is needed for edification of the church 1st corinthians chapters 12 and 14

A-Omega · May 23, 2013

lisaxseperatedxmom said:

And again, has anyone ever met a tongue interpreter? Do we have any in this forum? I would love to meet one because they never seem to be around in churches where 700 people are speaking tongues at the same time.

SarahM777 · May 23, 2013

inge said:

How did Peter know that Cornelius spoke in tongues and not demonized stuff??

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 11:15-18

How did the church than knew the difference between good and evil? (Acts 8:13-28, acts 16:16)

So....how do we know now the difference between good and evil?
God is the same yesterday today and forever
The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday today and forever

This are my quotes, but other people have written same sort of things.

The issue comes down to did God cause those gifts to cease or did they continue on? Please show me where the Bible or history shows they continued on. Is that really too much to ask? That is where we have to start to find the answer.

inge · May 23, 2013

A-Omega. This question is only legitimate when you are sincere looking for one. When you do not believe in tongues you do not need one. If you do believe in tongues you need one in church. Therefore do your own words judge you.

If you do say this and you do not believe in tongues you say this because....
a) you are nice and sincere
b) you just tried to find one to question him/her
c) you like to laugh about the matter
d) asking questions can confuse

As long as anyone is not able to see if your motive is right, noone will step up to answer your question....is my guess.
My personal experience is that in the church I go to I have met 2 persons whom spoke in tongues and than did interpret themselve. Since I am very careful and I (obvious) doubt your motives... I do not introduce you to them.

But I am willing to open the Bible with you and share what I learned till now.

A-Omega · May 23, 2013

inge said:

There is not much need to dissect my motivation. It was a serious question. I have been in many services where speaking in tongues in the sense that we are talking about in this thread has taken place and never once seen an interpreter. I have also asked for interpreters and never once found one. Hence my question.

What you describe in your experience is not Biblical. The person speaking in tongues does not do the interpreting. Someone else is supposed to interpret and then speak in tongue so the other person can interpret (or other 2 if 3 people are doing it). This is to provide an appropriate Biblical witness.

And in my honest, genuine experience, I have never even heard a story from anyone of one example of tongues speaking done like this in any church service anywhere in the world. 100% serious.

inge · May 23, 2013

There is NO verse that tells you or me that it did quit.
Or I could say: it is funny I have been in many churches...spoke with many people but when I ask for a VERSE that proves that the gifts did cease in our time they cannot give me one.
I will put the Biblestudy I did on this including the quotes I react on. You find this post in the thread dream interpretation. And I include for clarification something.

I am going to mention here in 3 points what I do see in your comment if I do quote/understand something wrong let me know. This is why you think the gifts of the Spirit are not for our time:

The gifts did cease with Paul because he did heal less at the end of his life.

It is ceased with him? Lets assume it is true. When it ceases with Paul (he could heal less) it won't be a reason to believe it was the same with Peter too or John. No prove for that. What isn't mentioned cannot be put in the Bible. I don't add or take off.

The gifts will cease because Paul mentions this.

I think you refer than to the great poem in the Corinth letter? (If not let me know what other verse.)

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1 Cor 13:8-10

First of all did it say prophecy shall cease? No. Second if it still means the same...like failing is a sort of ceasing (if one says so) so than prophecy, tongues are ceasing and.... than knowledge is done too...nowadays. Hmmm I don't think so.

The perfect thing to come is not our time, I see no perfection right now... What is the perfection Paul talks about in verse 10? But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I have searched on ceasing further in the Bible...but sorry, I could find no other references.

The Bible testifies of periods.

You forget a period. The period after Jesus & the Apostles.

These days are the last days until Jesus will return someday. Therefore the new testament often mentions this are the last days but also, in the last days...will come. (so present and future).

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hebr 2:1
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pet.3:3

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8

I doubt that Jesus would say: uttermost part of the world thinking Peter or Paul would go into the bush-bush of Brazil...as happens nowadays. Jesus mentions it in one sentence the apostles and our time.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Act 2:39

What promise?

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38

And with the Holy Ghost we receive gifts (as mentioned in the Bible) we show fruits and we walk in the Spirit. When someone says that gifts of the Spirit are not for now anymore....how can one be sure about that? Why only the gifts, why not fruits and walking also? Why exactly that part? Why all the explanations from Paul on how to use the gifts?

Jesus did not believe in periods either.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Math 5:18

De law is still applicable to persons whom do not follow the 'law of the Spirit'. (Rom 8:4,5)

inge · May 23, 2013

Everybody's motivations is examined online. Everybody's motivations are questioned. Mine and yours...otherwise...NO questions....right?

"Has anyone ever met a tongue interpreter? Is there maybe one on this forum? I like to meet one."

Go and try to find a church where they do differently:

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?1 Cor 4:6

If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?1 Cor 13:24

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.1 Cor 14:27

Please do send me Bibleverses about the interpreter being an appropriate Biblical witness?

This is what I found: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor 14:27-33

Not sure what you mean with this? Tongues and interpreter one person? Or just speaking in tongues?

SarahM777 · May 23, 2013

inge said:

But you also can not show in scripture show they DID continue on. Go all the way back to Genesis and you can not find 1 time that when God was doing signs that they continued on,before Acts they all ended when God's purpose for those signs was complete. That is the norm in the Bible. Acts 19 is the last time speaking in other languages is mentioned. Yet Acts continues on for about seven more years yet Luke leaves speaking in other languages out. James also tells us to do what when we are sick? He tells us to go before the elders,be anointed with oil and pray the prayer of faith. Nothing about being healed with a spoken word in the name of Jesus. Paul does not mention speaking in other languages outside of 1 Corinthians. Peter and John do NOT mention speaking in other languages. 1 Corinthians is one of the first epistles written still within the first part of Acts. From appearances it does look like speaking in other languages has already by the end of Acts to have ended. From what James says it appears that healing by a spoken word in the name of Jesus is coming to an end. Can we really say they did continue on in light of what Paul wrote that only three things would remain which are faith,hope and love,as of now those three do remain,when Jesus comes we will no need of faith or hope anymore. Paul doesn't say in that passage that any of the others will remain even at that time. He says only faith,hope and love? Is it not possible that they did end?

inge · May 23, 2013

Why on earth does Paul teach the Thessalonians to: Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. 2 Thes 5:19-21when he knows sees they cease in his personal life, or in church?

Did any of the apostles believe that it cease? Or do they all speak about gifts, tongues ...etc?
I do use the tactic often used here.... to ask a question back

God is the same in the Old testament, the New testament and forever....agree?

He still can part any see
He still can send fire from heaven
He still can send ravens with food

The Holy Ghost is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

He still can...
He still can....
He still can....

The new testament is still our inheritance. Oh yes, we learn from the old testament...a lot...but it is old and renewed in the new testament. We live under the New testament Law of the Spirit Rom 8:2 Think about it.....

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Joh 14:26

I think you can ask God/the Holy Spirit/Jesus safely if the gifts are still available.....

By the way this is my thoughts on it if we see all the signs: Yes, all things can happen. But no, not all things do happen nowadays everywhere and every time. If it happens is up to God, and not about a human theory of believing in the gifts or not.

That a whole bunch of people act un-Biblical and while acting crazy proclaim to have gifts does not make the new testament less true. That people sin....does not make God less true. It proves God. Think about it......

A-Omega · May 23, 2013

inge said:

Everybody's motivations is examined online. Everybody's motivations are questioned. Mine and yours...otherwise...NO questions....right?

"Has anyone ever met a tongue interpreter? Is there maybe one on this forum? I like to meet one."

Go and try to find a church where they do differently:

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?1 Cor 4:6

If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?1 Cor 13:24

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.1 Cor 14:27

Please do send me Bibleverses about the interpreter being an appropriate Biblical witness?

This is what I found: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor 14:27-33

Not sure what you mean with this? Tongues and interpreter one person? Or just speaking in tongues?

Two people. They each take turns where one speaks in tongues and the other interprets ("in their course"). I have never seen this or even heard of this being done in any church.

SarahM777 · May 23, 2013

inge said:

Time wise 1 Thessalonians is considered the first epistle written,so at this point they would have not ended yet. Prophecy in the Bible is not always a sign gift. Prophecy can also include exhortations,rebukes,encouragement,instruction or preaching. Which IS the only gift in that list that is mentioned outside of 1 Corinthians,but it is within the context of

Romans 12
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function,[SUP]5 [/SUP]so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[SUP][a][/SUP] faith;[SUP]7 [/SUP]if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach;[SUP]8 [/SUP]if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[SUP][b][/SUP] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Now the thing to note in that list is that none of them are signs gifts. The only time signs gifts are mentioned is 1 Corinthians.

inge said:

None of the apostles even speak of the signs gifts. It's not there. Do a word search for both gifts and tongues and it's not there.

inge said:

No problem there,but you cannot find that God did continue the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day,the signs that Elijah and Elisha did,etc etc,they all ended when God's purposes for them was completed. So if God didn't continue signs in the Old testament what makes us think they would continue in the New testament when God's purposes for them was completed? What was the purpose of signs to begin with? They were always in connection with showing that the message was from God. It was always a verification that the message was from God.

inge said:

And if God were to say no,then does that mean that those who believe that God still does those things are in error?
Or would it mean that I am in error? One would not be correct because God can not lie. So it does come down to which one is the truth,they both can not be true.

peacefulbeliever · May 23, 2013

SarahM777 said:

The gift of holy spirit produces nine different "fruit". . .joy, peace, love, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. . . .
The manifestation of the gift of holy spirit are nine . . .1 Cor. 12:7 the subject changes from "gift" to "manifestations". . . word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, kinds of tongues, and interpretation of tongues. The only manifestation listed as a "gift" is healing because any healing is a gift to the person being healed.

The fruit of the Spirit and the manifestation of the Spirit are wrapped up in the gift of Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:19,20 (when Simon tried to purchase this power) Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the holy Spirit. But Peter said unto him, thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Acts 10:45,46 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of Holy Spirit.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God.
Hebrews 2:3,4 How shall we escapte, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will.

Is the "church" completed?

I know that some think that we shouldn't input ourselves into the written scripture. . .but if an epistle is written to "them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord". . .that epistle is addressed to me. I may not be the "church of God at Corinth" but I am a saint, for I have called upon the name of Jesus Christ and I am sanctified in Christ Jesus.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. . . .(1 Cor. 13:9,10) Some say that scripture is that which is perfect and it is completed so tongues, prophecies, they have ceased and I'm not sure how "knowledge" is looked at. . .but it shall vanish away. I believe that "when that which is perfect is come" will be the second coming of Christ for he is perfect and we shall see him face to face which corresponds with 1 Cor. 13:12. . .For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; (we don't know everything now) but then shall I know even as also I am known (but then when we see him face to face we will know even as he knows us).

That's just how I read it. . .just my two cents worth

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