Spiritual Baptism
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No one is arguing that a believer should not be baptized in water. The argument is whether water baptism is of spiritual or symbolic value.
The baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a spiritual baptism because it is done by the Spirit. It is the one baptism being spoken of in the passage.
We've been through Acts 2:37-38 before. I have explained the work of the Spirit in verse 37...the hearing given and the heart circumcised that produces a change in the will...that precedes what occurs in verse 38.
So believers should be baptized in water as an act of obedience. After all, the command is given by one with apostolic authority. And I do believe there is grace imparted to the believer that is only given in baptism. But water baptism is largely symbolic of the union that has been forged previously by the Spirit of the believer into Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no magic water. It has been accomplished by the Spirit and all that results from it are due to the life of Christ now present in the new convert. To God be all the glory.
The baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a spiritual baptism because it is done by the Spirit. It is the one baptism being spoken of in the passage.
We've been through Acts 2:37-38 before. I have explained the work of the Spirit in verse 37...the hearing given and the heart circumcised that produces a change in the will...that precedes what occurs in verse 38.
So believers should be baptized in water as an act of obedience. After all, the command is given by one with apostolic authority. And I do believe there is grace imparted to the believer that is only given in baptism. But water baptism is largely symbolic of the union that has been forged previously by the Spirit of the believer into Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no magic water. It has been accomplished by the Spirit and all that results from it are due to the life of Christ now present in the new convert. To God be all the glory.
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I agree.
Water baptism is very important. It is a sign to the powers of this world that we are "buried with Him". Thus, our old man has died. The life we live now is "Christ in us". The enemy, including Death, has no power over the dead. And, the life that is in us through Christ, is greater than he who is in the world and Death.
All believers in Christ should be baptized in water.
Water baptism is very important. It is a sign to the powers of this world that we are "buried with Him". Thus, our old man has died. The life we live now is "Christ in us". The enemy, including Death, has no power over the dead. And, the life that is in us through Christ, is greater than he who is in the world and Death.
All believers in Christ should be baptized in water.
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well I can't provide scripture at the moment gotta get out the door soon😅
but, perhaps a good basis for understanding is to explore just how different the two baptisms are yet similar in one aspect...
that one must accept either one of Free Will,water baptism in particular is somewhat of a contract a free slate offered in a sense however as I learned personally baptism of water is Null and Void when you have no prior understanding of What You Are Accepting, I was baptized as a child for glory of a relative but, now know that was wrong and incorrect and so resulted in no effect for such misunderstanding😬
Spiritual Baptism otherwise known as Baptism of Holy spirit is it's own separate detail rather than a sort of contract it's a more personal endearment and acceptance toward Jesus which once again must be found within one's self and accepted for it to affect you,in my opinion the most personal conversation you will have with Jesus😟🙏😀
but, perhaps a good basis for understanding is to explore just how different the two baptisms are yet similar in one aspect...
that one must accept either one of Free Will,water baptism in particular is somewhat of a contract a free slate offered in a sense however as I learned personally baptism of water is Null and Void when you have no prior understanding of What You Are Accepting, I was baptized as a child for glory of a relative but, now know that was wrong and incorrect and so resulted in no effect for such misunderstanding😬
Spiritual Baptism otherwise known as Baptism of Holy spirit is it's own separate detail rather than a sort of contract it's a more personal endearment and acceptance toward Jesus which once again must be found within one's self and accepted for it to affect you,in my opinion the most personal conversation you will have with Jesus😟🙏😀
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Thanks for your input. I agree water baptism can be null and void unless done correctly. We can see evidence of that in Acts 19. They were water baptized but with the wrong baptism so Paul baptized them again with the right one. Then he gives them spiritual gifts.
I look forward to your scriptural support for "spiritual" baptism. I agree we receive the HS when we are water baptized but I don't see where the bible tells us that is a separate baptism. It's just being given the HS not a baptism of/by.
I look forward to your scriptural support for "spiritual" baptism. I agree we receive the HS when we are water baptized but I don't see where the bible tells us that is a separate baptism. It's just being given the HS not a baptism of/by.
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You are correct, Peter did treat them as unclean but only after a group of Jews arrived. Before that he treated them as clean.
12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
You see why God had to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Gentiles were now His people too. By giving Peter a vision and giving the Gentiles the HS directly. Maybe that is why Peter was the one chosen to convert the first Gentiles, because he disregarded them the most.
I suggest just because Peter struggled with it doesn't mean he didn't get it. He had lived his whole life like that. Even with Jesus he was told not to go to the Gentiles. We get that we are not supposed to sin but we still struggle with it.
Peter said he understood it.
34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
None of the Jews got it until Peter told them. That is why God gave them irrefutable proof that Peter could share. We see they criticized him for eating with uncircumcised men until he told them what happened then they said:
18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
My .02
Thanks for you comments
12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
You see why God had to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Gentiles were now His people too. By giving Peter a vision and giving the Gentiles the HS directly. Maybe that is why Peter was the one chosen to convert the first Gentiles, because he disregarded them the most.
I suggest just because Peter struggled with it doesn't mean he didn't get it. He had lived his whole life like that. Even with Jesus he was told not to go to the Gentiles. We get that we are not supposed to sin but we still struggle with it.
Peter said he understood it.
34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
None of the Jews got it until Peter told them. That is why God gave them irrefutable proof that Peter could share. We see they criticized him for eating with uncircumcised men until he told them what happened then they said:
18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
My .02
Thanks for you comments
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Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
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Please consider:
That was said before they were told anything about Jesus they were to believe in.
30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
Now we can look at an example of those who heard the word of Jesus first then asked the same question. The reply to them was different because they had already believed.
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Now there is something each group did in common after hearing the word and believing.
That was said before they were told anything about Jesus they were to believe in.
30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
Now we can look at an example of those who heard the word of Jesus first then asked the same question. The reply to them was different because they had already believed.
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Now there is something each group did in common after hearing the word and believing.
1st, the OP asked a question about Spiritual baptism vs water baptism. The only way one can be saved is if Jesus baptizes them with His Holy Spirit. Water neither removes sin or saves.
2ndly, I agree all versions aren't the same, some being more clear then others. Having said that, I believe, any version is good enough to lead one to salvation. God's Word is quick/alive (Heb 4:12) & doesn't reteun to Him void. It will ultimately accomplish whatever He intends it to (Isa 40:8, Matt 24:35)
The version you posted 1 Cor 12:13 with say's, baptized IN. Most versions say BY the Holy Spirit. I believe BY is a more clear teaching. That was the point I tried to articulate.
3rdly, another verse I cited (Col 2:11) say's: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""". Water baptism requires hands. Spiritual baptism requires Christ' H/S.
Understanding the Acts 2 Pentecost/Jews only H/S outpouring & Rom 10/Cornelius house. Where the door to gentile salvation is opened. Are necessary to the subject matter. There is a clear inversion from the: Be baptized & receive the H/S to being baptized Spiritually them partaking in water baptism.
Mosaic law (no person alive today is or has ever been under Mosaic law). It had numerous ritual/water purification requirements. (Ex 39:4; Ex 30:19-21; Ex 40:12; Lev 6:27; Lev 13:54, Lev 13:58; Lev 14:8-9; Levs 15:16; Lev 16:4, Lev 16:24; Lev 22:6.)
Act 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(MY COMMENT: Peter is explaining to Jews that God GAVE/BAPTIZED the Gentiles with/by/in His Holy Spirit purifying them based on FAITH ALONE.
Jesus and only Jesus can purify/baptize believers (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Acts 11:16) with His eternal salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 2 Tim 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5.) indwelling Holy Spirit.
After Spiritual baptizm comes water baptism. A visible outwardly exercise expressing one's inner change, dedication & commitment.
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the """Jews only""".
(MY COMMENT: Here Paul is still Saul, Peter hasn't had the (Acts 10:9-16) vision that sends him to Cornelius (the gentiles) house. Here the salvation message is 100% to Israel/Jews, to include the risen Jesus message found in (Matt 28:19-20) 100% Jewish!)
2ndly, I agree all versions aren't the same, some being more clear then others. Having said that, I believe, any version is good enough to lead one to salvation. God's Word is quick/alive (Heb 4:12) & doesn't reteun to Him void. It will ultimately accomplish whatever He intends it to (Isa 40:8, Matt 24:35)
The version you posted 1 Cor 12:13 with say's, baptized IN. Most versions say BY the Holy Spirit. I believe BY is a more clear teaching. That was the point I tried to articulate.
3rdly, another verse I cited (Col 2:11) say's: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""". Water baptism requires hands. Spiritual baptism requires Christ' H/S.
Understanding the Acts 2 Pentecost/Jews only H/S outpouring & Rom 10/Cornelius house. Where the door to gentile salvation is opened. Are necessary to the subject matter. There is a clear inversion from the: Be baptized & receive the H/S to being baptized Spiritually them partaking in water baptism.
Mosaic law (no person alive today is or has ever been under Mosaic law). It had numerous ritual/water purification requirements. (Ex 39:4; Ex 30:19-21; Ex 40:12; Lev 6:27; Lev 13:54, Lev 13:58; Lev 14:8-9; Levs 15:16; Lev 16:4, Lev 16:24; Lev 22:6.)
Act 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(MY COMMENT: Peter is explaining to Jews that God GAVE/BAPTIZED the Gentiles with/by/in His Holy Spirit purifying them based on FAITH ALONE.
Jesus and only Jesus can purify/baptize believers (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Acts 11:16) with His eternal salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 2 Tim 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5.) indwelling Holy Spirit.
After Spiritual baptizm comes water baptism. A visible outwardly exercise expressing one's inner change, dedication & commitment.
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the """Jews only""".
(MY COMMENT: Here Paul is still Saul, Peter hasn't had the (Acts 10:9-16) vision that sends him to Cornelius (the gentiles) house. Here the salvation message is 100% to Israel/Jews, to include the risen Jesus message found in (Matt 28:19-20) 100% Jewish!)
I understand I am very late to this thread but I just wanted to tell you what I have learned from it. water baptism as muc as it is coincided with spiritual does not seem to be in the same realm Everytime water baptism aside from when Jesus was water baptized seems to be more of a physical act, I mean when you were baptized do you recall the soothing sensation the cooling of your physical body the life flowing through the waters doing so much more than inspire or create that fire in you?
If water baptism is as it sohlud be then those living waters Jesus spoke of that you will never quench again can we ask ourselves and conclude this? was he all talk what was the reason he spoke in such an insane way? even back then this is insane talk especially so to a gentile of all people but he said it as he did
I dob't know if you ever felt this water but imagine everything you feel you lacking your body soul mind and in return all you feel is this coolness and soft feeling on your skin beimg so clean and pure you fail to understand how you ever thought you and sin had anything to do with each other
How every ounce of weainess physical emotional spiritual it doesnt matter just clean life How many baptisms do you hear about that can express this in such a manner? The sad thing is I am still waiting for this spiritual water either way the only thing that decides what it is is your bond with him
I think of clean soothing waters feeling so good on your skin soul and spirit filled with life but if you ask anyone else can they say the same thing?
If water baptism is as it sohlud be then those living waters Jesus spoke of that you will never quench again can we ask ourselves and conclude this? was he all talk what was the reason he spoke in such an insane way? even back then this is insane talk especially so to a gentile of all people but he said it as he did
I dob't know if you ever felt this water but imagine everything you feel you lacking your body soul mind and in return all you feel is this coolness and soft feeling on your skin beimg so clean and pure you fail to understand how you ever thought you and sin had anything to do with each other
How every ounce of weainess physical emotional spiritual it doesnt matter just clean life How many baptisms do you hear about that can express this in such a manner? The sad thing is I am still waiting for this spiritual water either way the only thing that decides what it is is your bond with him
I think of clean soothing waters feeling so good on your skin soul and spirit filled with life but if you ask anyone else can they say the same thing?
Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace, how exactly should we explain:
1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?
and:
2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?
Just wondering...
Amen.
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