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well I believe that one can say something that would make another turn from God but this would not be called spiritual murder, God says that He is the only one that can kill the soul,
Mt 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
so my vote would be no one can not commit spiritual murder, you might could make them backslide a little
Mt 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
so my vote would be no one can not commit spiritual murder, you might could make them backslide a little
S
I don't believe that it is possible to turn someone away from God. Each believer has been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, and even though a person may use an offensive word as an excuse to temporarily run from God, if they belong to Christ, they will not remain in that state.
I Peter 1:1
... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father...
We are not responsible for saving people or for causing anyone to remain in an unsaved state, though we can be negatively influential in that way, causing others to rebel for a period of time. Those who have been given to Christ will come to him. (I reject any calvanist doctrines which may inadvertantly overlap with this post)
Those who will be saved were chosen from the beginning, however this does not mean that Christians won't wound people occassionally, or misrepresent God's nature, from time to time. There are individuals who have been 'legalistically' abused in some church gatherings. Judging by appearence, catoring to the rich, misinterpreting scriptures for the purpose of judging or condemning, are only a few of the ways that some may have caused someone to reject the salvation message temporarily, until God can orchestrate a more fruitful encounter with some other believer or church, that will present Christ in a way they are receptive to. The Kingdom was given to Christ, and this includes every saved soul. Even the ones who aren't yet aware that they will be saved, and Jesus will lose none of them.
John 6:39
... And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
The truth is, each of us, including myself, have more than likely been in a position where we have failed to accurately reflect God's character. Perhaps we said something we should not have said, or began witnessing, but ended up debating and arguing with the very person we were trying to save. We serve a forgiving God, and each one of us is growing and learning. Everyone wishes that they could speak specifically into the lives of everyone they meet, but the fact is sometimes we blow it, or we simply sow a seed for someone else to water at a later time.
Words can kill. But they do not kill physically or spiritually, they have the potential to kill a person's passion for life, their motivation, and their sense of worth, and I suppose, in a sense, it is like murder, as these are left wounded and hurting without remedy.
We are not perfect, though we strive for perfection, and our words are not always perfect nuggets of wisdom which roll from our mouths. God keeps a watchful eye on his sheep and he knows how to bring them back, wounded or otherwise. The Holy Spirit is an expert at changing hearts, and restoring bruised people. Let's not beat ourselves up, or condemn our brothers and sisters who may have chased a few sheep, but let us be ready to speak by the Spirit as often as God gives us the privelege of participating in His plan for the salvation of those who are His.
I Peter 1:1
... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father...
We are not responsible for saving people or for causing anyone to remain in an unsaved state, though we can be negatively influential in that way, causing others to rebel for a period of time. Those who have been given to Christ will come to him. (I reject any calvanist doctrines which may inadvertantly overlap with this post)
Those who will be saved were chosen from the beginning, however this does not mean that Christians won't wound people occassionally, or misrepresent God's nature, from time to time. There are individuals who have been 'legalistically' abused in some church gatherings. Judging by appearence, catoring to the rich, misinterpreting scriptures for the purpose of judging or condemning, are only a few of the ways that some may have caused someone to reject the salvation message temporarily, until God can orchestrate a more fruitful encounter with some other believer or church, that will present Christ in a way they are receptive to. The Kingdom was given to Christ, and this includes every saved soul. Even the ones who aren't yet aware that they will be saved, and Jesus will lose none of them.
John 6:39
... And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
The truth is, each of us, including myself, have more than likely been in a position where we have failed to accurately reflect God's character. Perhaps we said something we should not have said, or began witnessing, but ended up debating and arguing with the very person we were trying to save. We serve a forgiving God, and each one of us is growing and learning. Everyone wishes that they could speak specifically into the lives of everyone they meet, but the fact is sometimes we blow it, or we simply sow a seed for someone else to water at a later time.
Words can kill. But they do not kill physically or spiritually, they have the potential to kill a person's passion for life, their motivation, and their sense of worth, and I suppose, in a sense, it is like murder, as these are left wounded and hurting without remedy.
We are not perfect, though we strive for perfection, and our words are not always perfect nuggets of wisdom which roll from our mouths. God keeps a watchful eye on his sheep and he knows how to bring them back, wounded or otherwise. The Holy Spirit is an expert at changing hearts, and restoring bruised people. Let's not beat ourselves up, or condemn our brothers and sisters who may have chased a few sheep, but let us be ready to speak by the Spirit as often as God gives us the privelege of participating in His plan for the salvation of those who are His.
S
I have selected Matthew 18:6
In order to correctly understand this scripture, it cannot be removed from its original context. If I may set the scene, Jesus has just selected a child who was nearby and is using him as a type of living illistration. He refers to this child in every scripture from verse 2 to verse 5. It is nearly impossible to read into what is transpiring, although I'm sure some have tried, with their so-called revelatory knowledge, which is fine, when it is genuine, and provides a clarification.
Verse 2 says,
He called a little child and had him stand among them.. (this is the key verse)
Verse 3 says,
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Verse 4 says,
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Verse 5 says,
"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
Verse 6 says,
whoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
In context, we can see that from the beginning, Jesus referred to a child near Him, spoke about the character of a child, and warned against abusing, injuring, or misleading a believing child, causing him/her to sin.
As with any one of us who have had tragic experiences at a very young age, we know that children are impressionable. The word 'offense' can include many types of harmful acts which could be done to a child, and the false teachings which could permanantly alter the belief system of a once believing child. Those who commit such harmful, injurous, emotionally damaging acts, or attempt to mislead a child by teaching them to sin, can be forgiven, but until they repent there is a high unnamed price awaiting them. (woe to that man through whom the offense comes)
It is a given, that there will be some who once believed the bible stories shared by parents or perhaps sunday school teachers, but were subjected to torturous living which actually caused them to develop a wrong view of the world and an unhealthy self image, perhaps causing them to go astray. Some might have eventually used sin to compensate for their unfortunate childhood, or to cope with internal pain.
Proverbs 22:6
Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.
In order to correctly understand this scripture, it cannot be removed from its original context. If I may set the scene, Jesus has just selected a child who was nearby and is using him as a type of living illistration. He refers to this child in every scripture from verse 2 to verse 5. It is nearly impossible to read into what is transpiring, although I'm sure some have tried, with their so-called revelatory knowledge, which is fine, when it is genuine, and provides a clarification.
Verse 2 says,
He called a little child and had him stand among them.. (this is the key verse)
Verse 3 says,
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Verse 4 says,
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Verse 5 says,
"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
Verse 6 says,
whoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
In context, we can see that from the beginning, Jesus referred to a child near Him, spoke about the character of a child, and warned against abusing, injuring, or misleading a believing child, causing him/her to sin.
As with any one of us who have had tragic experiences at a very young age, we know that children are impressionable. The word 'offense' can include many types of harmful acts which could be done to a child, and the false teachings which could permanantly alter the belief system of a once believing child. Those who commit such harmful, injurous, emotionally damaging acts, or attempt to mislead a child by teaching them to sin, can be forgiven, but until they repent there is a high unnamed price awaiting them. (woe to that man through whom the offense comes)
It is a given, that there will be some who once believed the bible stories shared by parents or perhaps sunday school teachers, but were subjected to torturous living which actually caused them to develop a wrong view of the world and an unhealthy self image, perhaps causing them to go astray. Some might have eventually used sin to compensate for their unfortunate childhood, or to cope with internal pain.
Proverbs 22:6
Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.
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then you as Lucifer, have raised yourself above God and His Word, I just showed you where God said that there was only one, that can destroy both Body and soul. so you are saying that you are the one,
this also said that they are some that can only kill the Body not the soul, and it is Him (singular) that can destroy both Body and soul
then you as Lucifer, have raised yourself above God and His Word, I just showed you where God said that there was only one, that can destroy both Body and soul. so you are saying that you are the one,
this also said that they are some that can only kill the Body not the soul, and it is Him (singular) that can destroy both Body and soul
then you as Lucifer, have raised yourself above God and His Word, I just showed you where God said that there was only one, that can destroy both Body and soul. so you are saying that you are the one,
this also said that they are some that can only kill the Body not the soul, and it is Him (singular) that can destroy both Body and soul
are you saying that all people who belong to God never has any mental problems are that all mental illness people can not belong to God??? wow !!!
if what you say is true then Paul should not have said and it should also not been allowed in scriptures.
Ro 8:6For to be CARNALly minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1co 3:3For ye are yet CARNAL: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not CARNAL, and walk as men?
to explain mentally dead, would be anyone who has been oppressed by someone or something that their mind can not reasonablly function as it should and I only use this because it is so clear from scripture that only God can be the one that determines who is saved and who is not , to say that we can spiritually kill someone is to say that we can cause them to lose their salvation, The Holy Spirit dwells within all believers that have called upon the Name of the Lord. and Only God will be the judge of this. now we can say things that will make a person fall away from Their service or their walk with God, but this would not be spiritually dead for the spirit would still be dealing out the conviction to repent, to turn back to God. But God said in Jude, Jesus presented us the the one wise God that is able to keep us from falling, so if God can keep us from falling, then to say that one can away completely from the Love of God is to say that God lied and can not keep His promise of Salvation, where as He can not really keep anyone from falling. I myself praise God that He is able to keep this ole boy from falling , and have a sadden spirit for those that can't trust God and His word, and believe that they are stronger than God and can rip themselves from the Promises and Love of God
if what you say is true then Paul should not have said and it should also not been allowed in scriptures.
Ro 8:6For to be CARNALly minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1co 3:3For ye are yet CARNAL: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not CARNAL, and walk as men?
to explain mentally dead, would be anyone who has been oppressed by someone or something that their mind can not reasonablly function as it should and I only use this because it is so clear from scripture that only God can be the one that determines who is saved and who is not , to say that we can spiritually kill someone is to say that we can cause them to lose their salvation, The Holy Spirit dwells within all believers that have called upon the Name of the Lord. and Only God will be the judge of this. now we can say things that will make a person fall away from Their service or their walk with God, but this would not be spiritually dead for the spirit would still be dealing out the conviction to repent, to turn back to God. But God said in Jude, Jesus presented us the the one wise God that is able to keep us from falling, so if God can keep us from falling, then to say that one can away completely from the Love of God is to say that God lied and can not keep His promise of Salvation, where as He can not really keep anyone from falling. I myself praise God that He is able to keep this ole boy from falling , and have a sadden spirit for those that can't trust God and His word, and believe that they are stronger than God and can rip themselves from the Promises and Love of God
N
are you saying that all people who belong to God never has any mental problems are that all mental illness people can not belong to God??? wow !!!Thats not what I said , What I said was OUGHT to be in order, meaning our mental state and spiritual state TO ME, should somewhat be in harmony together. All I wanted was for you to explain to me what you meant , and you did that quite well . WOW.
C
While I agree with your basic premise, that each person is responsible for their own spiritual state, I also believe that God has chosen to use men and women to influence and persuade and proclaim. We become answerable to Him for how we accomplish or fail to accomplish this calling. I think the use of the word "stumble" or "offend" indicates it goes beyond the obvious issue of abuse and neglect. The New Testament consistantly teaches that we are to be our "brother's keeper".
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