Spontaneous baptisms of Elevation church - makes me want to puke

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

How Elevation Church, Pastor Furtick produce 'spontaneous' baptisms | WCNC.com Charlotte

Makes me want to go to a homechurch

[video=youtube;ZfTjcz7ys7I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfTjcz7ys7I[/video]

Sad thing is I am going to one of these churches tonight for a Mens Bible study - thinking about their market symbols ugh - friend payed for my book and he drives so...

and of course the churches music minister teaches songs no one knows, and talks about his cd in the book store

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

[video=youtube;xEAWPcbTw8k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEAWPcbTw8k[/video]

phil112 · Feb 20, 2014

Lots of churches in the real world and on television that do just that.

crossnote · Feb 20, 2014

How does spontaneous baptism compare with this...?

Matthew 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

38miles · Feb 20, 2014

Yes. Then another yes. I first came to know of Furtick after hearing an album from Elevation, and after a little research…yeah I puked a bit, figuratively.

I am going to post some just links here for anyone who, like me, seeks truth regarding the emergent fallaway. I am conscious of my heart's appearance in this post, but I think silence is the greater injustice about this stuff. Please forgive a humorous remark or two. (you can only post one video, so the others are just links)

First, here is the message given by Matt Chandler, teaching pastor at Village Church in TX. The message is excellent and such an opposition to Furtick's contemporvent, growtivation, church.

[video=youtube;wJLLT4NF3bc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLLT4NF3bc[/video]

Next, here is the article Elevation Church Accused of Censoring Reformed Pastor's Sermon about Matt Chandler's message not being rebroadcast by Furtick and his church.

This of course brings us to weigh how Furtick view of "speaking God's word" against Chandler's view of preaching God's word. Please, if you haven't seen Furtick detail his "pre game" routine before speaking God's word, watch this. You'll hear about "calibrating the heart", the practice of self-annointing oil, and…I apologize if you may feel some type of regurgitation, be it literal or figurative.

Definitely watch this on youtube, Steven Furtick's "Faith Confessions"? - vinceandloriministries.blogspot.com - YouTube

Finally, here is the Elephant Room session between Chandler and Furtick (Furtick refers to this in his introduction of Chandler). This is worth watching…Chandler did separate himself and maintained that separation.

The Elephant Room Round One - Session One on Vimeo

The_highwayman · Feb 20, 2014

The real culprit is Rick Warren and his 2 books:
The purpose Drive life and The Purpose Driven Church.

The latter of these 2 is nothing more than a marketing manual for how to grow seeker friendly churches and rake in the money and then go across town or to the next state and duplicate it all over again, and again, and again and again.

If you read through the Purpose driven church and you have read any business strategy or marketing strategy books by Lee Iacocca, Purpose Driven Church will give you serious pause, because the very same material found in Iaccoca's biz and marketing books are found almost word for word, although using different writings styles in Purpose Driven church.

I wont comment on truly anointed contemporary worship, because f you read through the Psalms, and about David in Samuel 1 & 2 and understand anything about the Prophet Habakkuk and especially the prayer in Habakkuk Chapter 3, truly anointed contemporary Praise & Worship is fine.

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

38miles said:

Yes. Then another yes. I first came to know of Furtick after hearing an album from Elevation, and after a little research…yeah I puked a bit, figuratively.

I am going to post some just links here for anyone who, like me, seeks truth regarding the emergent fallaway. I am conscious of my heart's appearance in this post, but I think silence is the greater injustice about this stuff. Please forgive a humorous remark or two. (you can only post one video, so the others are just links)

First, here is the message given by Matt Chandler, teaching pastor at Village Church in TX. The message is excellent and such an opposition to Furtick's contemporvent, growtivation, church.

[video=youtube;wJLLT4NF3bc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLLT4NF3bc[/video]

Next, here is the article Elevation Church Accused of Censoring Reformed Pastor's Sermon about Matt Chandler's message not being rebroadcast by Furtick and his church.

This of course brings us to weigh how Furtick view of "speaking God's word" against Chandler's view of preaching God's word. Please, if you haven't seen Furtick detail his "pre game" routine before speaking God's word, watch this. You'll hear about "calibrating the heart", the practice of self-annointing oil, and…I apologize if you may feel some type of regurgitation, be it literal or figurative.

Definitely watch this on youtube, Steven Furtick's "Faith Confessions"? - vinceandloriministries.blogspot.com - YouTube

Finally, here is the Elephant Room session between Chandler and Furtick (Furtick refers to this in his introduction of Chandler). This is worth watching…Chandler did separate himself and maintained that separation.

The Elephant Room Round One - Session One on Vimeo

Matt Chandler goes to theological crazies churches so he can preach the Gospel through the Bible - that's why he goes - he think he'd be foolish not to go where people are dying - awesome

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

The_highwayman said:

The real culprit is Rick Warren and his 2 books:
The purpose Drive life and The Purpose Driven Church.

The latter of these 2 is nothing more than a marketing manual for how to grow seeker friendly churches and rake in the money and then go across town or to the next state and duplicate it all over again, and again, and again and again.

If you read through the Purpose driven church and you have read any business strategy or marketing strategy books by Lee Iacocca, Purpose Driven Church will give you serious pause, because the very same material found in Iaccoca's biz and marketing books are found almost word for word, although using different writings styles in Purpose Driven church.

I wont comment on truly anointed contemporary worship, because f you read through the Psalms, and about David in Samuel 1 & 2 and understand anything about the Prophet Habakkuk and especially the prayer in Habakkuk Chapter 3, truly anointed contemporary Praise & Worship is fine.

Crazy stuff! - Oh i have some songs by like Jesus Culture and Hillsong - but I don't by their albums, or would ever go to a concert - unless there was teaching by a pastor i know

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

I almost don't want to watch the Elephant room - James Macdonald - awesome - Matt Chandler - awesome - furtik - ok..

James Macdonald is a gracious Godly man

jimmydiggs · Feb 20, 2014

thecreationtutor said:

James Macdonald and the elephant room is a shame.

thecreationtutor · Feb 20, 2014

jimmydiggs said:

I may not agree with everything going on in the elephant room, I think it's an honest attempt to bring issues to light, and possibly change

But I would put James Macdonald over any bible teacher, any day and I think we might be able to say that about the elephant room, but definitely not him

jimmydiggs · Feb 21, 2014

thecreationtutor said:

Deny heresy so you can have peace and tap into a social network of a heretical false teacher? Such great bible teaching.

38miles · Feb 21, 2014

jimmydiggs said:

The idea was good for the first one. McDonald set it to hammer on Perry Noble and Furtick. This was the line up: Greg Laurie, Mark Driscoll, David Platt, Matt Chandler, Perry Noble, and Steven Furtick. All sessions but the battle between Chandler and Nobel exist on vimeo. The one between Chandler and Furtick is worth watching. Chandler does not relent.

The second one never should have happened and it is why McDonald won't do another.

thecreationtutor said:

I agree. McDonald wanted to call out errant doctrine from certain sensationalist emergent personalities. But it birthed the second one, which failed miserably.

Here is No Compromise EG after-panel, worth watching.
[video=vimeo;47844054]http://vimeo.com/47844054[/video]

thecreationtutor · Feb 21, 2014

38miles said:

The idea was good for the first one. McDonald set it to hammer on Perry Noble and Furtick. This was the line up: Greg Laurie, Mark Driscoll, David Platt, Matt Chandler, Perry Noble, and Steven Furtick. All sessions but the battle between Chandler and Nobel exist on vimeo. The one between Chandler and Furtick is worth watching. Chandler does not relent.

The second one never should have happened and it is why McDonald won't do another.

I agree. McDonald wanted to call out errant doctrine from certain sensationalist emergent personalities. But it birthed the second one, which failed miserably.

Here is No Compromise EG after-panel, worth watching.
[video=vimeo;47844054]http://vimeo.com/47844054[/video]

Yeah, I understand - I mean there should be longsuffering, and a desire for oneness, in us all, but sometimes....

Jda016 · Feb 21, 2014

I kind if felt like they were beating Matt Chandler up, but doing it with a "velvet glove." In other words they all tried to sound nice and "brotherly," but it definitely feels like they were against him. I have only watched the first 20 minutes though.

I lived in Dallas and I saw Matt preach many, many times. The hallmark of ALL those sermons was about a radical and real love for Christ that would be visible by all. I am not of the "reformed" mindset, but Chandler never beat any over the head with Calvinism, he simply preached a deep and abiding love to know God. I was always blessed to hear him speak.

thecreationtutor · Feb 21, 2014

Jda016 said:

In the end - furtik looked like a deer in headlights - James tried to keep the heat on both - to challenge them, in the end it seemed more like a rebuke on furtik - which at least it happened

Nautilus · Feb 21, 2014

[h=1]Furtick, Elevation, and why most of us probably just need to shut up[/h]If you’re from anywhere near Charlotte, then you’re aware that it’s become quite the epicenter of “shocking” news about Elevation Church and its pastor, Steven Furtick. In fact, it’s become quite trendy to look into every single thing Furtick and Elevation Church have done, are doing, or ever will do, especially if your name is Stuart Watson and you work at WCNC as the lead investigative reporter. In case you’ve missed out on Watson’s “thorn in the side” reports, you can access most of them on the WCNC website. The latest one, published yesterday, revealed the methods behind how Elevation managed to baptize a couple thousand people over 2 weekends and seems to imply that there is some kind of corruption behind the scenes that would make innocent baptisms somewhat less innocent.
Most of it started back in October of 2013 when the news broke of a really big house that Furtick was building, and suddenly social media was filled with defenders and attackers (or, as Elevation loves to call them, haters). In all honesty, when I read the news about the house, it grieved me deeply and I had wanted to write about it then, but I chose not to because I felt that my approach to the story was skewed because I read about it after spending a long day in the poorest slums of Delhi, India, and so the story of a famous preacher building a house that could hold almost every street kid I had seen that day just didn’t feel good.
But that didn’t warrant a post, especially since I’d love to have a bigger house, too.
Then, Watson aired a story about how Furtick and Elevation were jumping through a bunch of hoops to get his books bought at a discounted rate that could then be sold at retail prices to a congregation big enough to all but ensure 12,000 copies would be sold. As weird as all of that sounded, I didn’t write about that either, mainly because I’d love to write a book and know that everyone in my church would buy a copy, too.
Of course, it would be a lot less than 12,000 copies. 11,850 less.
But when this story about the baptisms broke, I had to write. I mean, at some point enough is enough, right? At some point, someone needs to shed some kind of biblical perspective on all of this silliness, and while I’m not the biggest (or even the best) voice out there to do it, I can’t stay silent anymore.
But what I say may surprise you.
Back in AD 60 or so, the apostle Paul sat under house arrest awaiting trial before Nero. This was the Nero who later would be suspected on burning Rome on purpose in order to blame Christians just so others would hate the believers more. Not a nice dude. In fact, Paul was so aware of Nero’s tendency to persecute and kill followers of Jesus that in the letter he wrote to the Philippians while waiting for his trial, he hoped that – whether he lived or died - he wouldn’t be ashamed for a lack of courage (Philippians 1:20).
But something else was going on while Paul sat waiting to find out his fate. There were other people preaching the same gospel that Paul preached, only they seemed to be doing it in a very different way than Paul did and with a very different motive than Paul did. Apparently, Paul had heard about it, and in what could have been the last letter he ever wrote (as far as he knew), he took the time to address the situation. To paraphrase it, he said some preach with good motives and others with bad, and then he asked a very odd question in Philippians 1:18: “But what does it matter?” How would you answer that question? How would I? Here’s how Paul answered:

The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. (Philippians 1:18)

Of course, we know how Stuart Watson would answer it, but Paul didn’t write to an investigative reporter in the letter to the Philippians. He wrote to the church. He wrote to every believer who has jumped on the “burn Elevation to the ground” bandwagon. I’ve seen enough, and unless we can answer that simple question with the same answer Paul did, we need to forget about Furtick and we need to repent of far more than increased living space and a bump in book sales in order to land on the New York Times Bestseller list.
We need to repent of pride.
Once, Jesus was asked by 2 of his disciples if they could have the best seats in his kingdom (Mark 10:37). This was right after they told him that they wanted him to do anything they asked him to do. When I read that, I think of one of Elevation’s core values about acting in audacious faith. It’s pretty audacious to ask Jesus to sit on his right and left, and when the other 10 disciples found out about it, they got pretty jacked up about it.
Jesus saw an opportunity to teach something about the kingdom, and he took it. He didn’t throw James and John under the bus for having the courage to ask something that maybe they shouldn’t have asked. He just told them that their audacious faith was really just an ignorant faith and that they didn’t understand the price that had to be paid to have what they were asking.
But the greater lesson was to the 10 who freaked because they were afraid they might lose the best seats to the 2 who were willing to ask. He told them about the world’s way of leading and his way. He talked about letting others go first, about serving and dying. Of laying our lives down so others could be raised to life.
He called them to repent of the pride that made them try to protect something that wasn’t even theirs.
So often, the loudest critics are the proudest people. It sounds so good to talk about how Elevation shouldn’t brand themselves over the gospel until we realize that we’re just the 10 disciples who are mad that we didn’t create the brand first.
Not too long ago, I thought The Gathering would be the next Elevation. I had dreams of Furtick calling me and telling me that I’d done such a good job getting The Gathering started that they would love to incorporate it into the Elevation family as the Albemarle campus. It wasn’t necessarily a bad dream, and my heart (I thought) was in the right place. But today – a little over 2 years removed from those thoughts – I couldn’t be happier that God stuck us in a coffee shop instead. There, hidden in a room that could realistically only hold a hundred people or so, I started to realize how much my dream was, well, about me.
I wanted our little church to grow bigger because it would validate me, not only as a good pastor, but as a great church planter. I wanted people to come because it’s easier to write a compelling annual report when the bars go up from left to right instead of staying flat (or worse, going down!). I wanted people to be saved because saved people talk about the fantastic church where they heard about Jesus (and the fantastic preacher who preached there!).
But something happened in the box. God started to kill me by reminding me why Jesus died. To bring strangers into the family. To bring enemies together as one. To breathe life into dead bones. Remembering all of that gave our church the solid foundation that we needed before moving into our new location with more space and more seats, and now that there’s less of me, there’s more room for people who desperately need Jesus.
While I’ll probably never meet him and he’ll probably never read this, I’d like to thank Steven Furtick for leading with the kind of bold faith that encouraged a couple thousand people to make a public demonstration of a personal commitment to follow Jesus. Your passion for preaching Jesus encourages me, and I’m not the judge of your heart. If given the same circumstances that you find yourself in, would I build a house as big as yours? Maybe not. Would I push my new book from the pulpit the same way you (and many, many other megachurch pastors) have? I’m not sure. “But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.“
And as the number of people being baptized would suggest, you seem to be doing a pretty good job of that.

thecreationtutor · Feb 21, 2014

Nautilus said:

Furtick, Elevation, and why most of us probably just need to shut up

If you’re from anywhere near Charlotte, then you’re aware that it’s become quite the epicenter of “shocking” news about Elevation Church and its pastor, Steven Furtick. In fact, it’s become quite trendy to look into every single thing Furtick and Elevation Church have done, are doing, or ever will do, especially if your name is Stuart Watson and you work at WCNC as the lead investigative reporter. In case you’ve missed out on Watson’s “thorn in the side” reports, you can access most of them on the WCNC website. The latest one, published yesterday, revealed the methods behind how Elevation managed to baptize a couple thousand people over 2 weekends and seems to imply that there is some kind of corruption behind the scenes that would make innocent baptisms somewhat less innocent.
Most of it started back in October of 2013 when the news broke of a really big house that Furtick was building, and suddenly social media was filled with defenders and attackers (or, as Elevation loves to call them, haters). In all honesty, when I read the news about the house, it grieved me deeply and I had wanted to write about it then, but I chose not to because I felt that my approach to the story was skewed because I read about it after spending a long day in the poorest slums of Delhi, India, and so the story of a famous preacher building a house that could hold almost every street kid I had seen that day just didn’t feel good.
But that didn’t warrant a post, especially since I’d love to have a bigger house, too.
Then, Watson aired a story about how Furtick and Elevation were jumping through a bunch of hoops to get his books bought at a discounted rate that could then be sold at retail prices to a congregation big enough to all but ensure 12,000 copies would be sold. As weird as all of that sounded, I didn’t write about that either, mainly because I’d love to write a book and know that everyone in my church would buy a copy, too.
Of course, it would be a lot less than 12,000 copies. 11,850 less.
But when this story about the baptisms broke, I had to write. I mean, at some point enough is enough, right? At some point, someone needs to shed some kind of biblical perspective on all of this silliness, and while I’m not the biggest (or even the best) voice out there to do it, I can’t stay silent anymore.
But what I say may surprise you.
Back in AD 60 or so, the apostle Paul sat under house arrest awaiting trial before Nero. This was the Nero who later would be suspected on burning Rome on purpose in order to blame Christians just so others would hate the believers more. Not a nice dude. In fact, Paul was so aware of Nero’s tendency to persecute and kill followers of Jesus that in the letter he wrote to the Philippians while waiting for his trial, he hoped that – whether he lived or died - he wouldn’t be ashamed for a lack of courage (Philippians 1:20).
But something else was going on while Paul sat waiting to find out his fate. There were other people preaching the same gospel that Paul preached, only they seemed to be doing it in a very different way than Paul did and with a very different motive than Paul did. Apparently, Paul had heard about it, and in what could have been the last letter he ever wrote (as far as he knew), he took the time to address the situation. To paraphrase it, he said some preach with good motives and others with bad, and then he asked a very odd question in Philippians 1:18: “But what does it matter?” How would you answer that question? How would I? Here’s how Paul answered:

The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. (Philippians 1:18)

Of course, we know how Stuart Watson would answer it, but Paul didn’t write to an investigative reporter in the letter to the Philippians. He wrote to the church. He wrote to every believer who has jumped on the “burn Elevation to the ground” bandwagon. I’ve seen enough, and unless we can answer that simple question with the same answer Paul did, we need to forget about Furtick and we need to repent of far more than increased living space and a bump in book sales in order to land on the New York Times Bestseller list.
We need to repent of pride.
Once, Jesus was asked by 2 of his disciples if they could have the best seats in his kingdom (Mark 10:37). This was right after they told him that they wanted him to do anything they asked him to do. When I read that, I think of one of Elevation’s core values about acting in audacious faith. It’s pretty audacious to ask Jesus to sit on his right and left, and when the other 10 disciples found out about it, they got pretty jacked up about it.
Jesus saw an opportunity to teach something about the kingdom, and he took it. He didn’t throw James and John under the bus for having the courage to ask something that maybe they shouldn’t have asked. He just told them that their audacious faith was really just an ignorant faith and that they didn’t understand the price that had to be paid to have what they were asking.
But the greater lesson was to the 10 who freaked because they were afraid they might lose the best seats to the 2 who were willing to ask. He told them about the world’s way of leading and his way. He talked about letting others go first, about serving and dying. Of laying our lives down so others could be raised to life.
He called them to repent of the pride that made them try to protect something that wasn’t even theirs.
So often, the loudest critics are the proudest people. It sounds so good to talk about how Elevation shouldn’t brand themselves over the gospel until we realize that we’re just the 10 disciples who are mad that we didn’t create the brand first.
Not too long ago, I thought The Gathering would be the next Elevation. I had dreams of Furtick calling me and telling me that I’d done such a good job getting The Gathering started that they would love to incorporate it into the Elevation family as the Albemarle campus. It wasn’t necessarily a bad dream, and my heart (I thought) was in the right place. But today – a little over 2 years removed from those thoughts – I couldn’t be happier that God stuck us in a coffee shop instead. There, hidden in a room that could realistically only hold a hundred people or so, I started to realize how much my dream was, well, about me.
I wanted our little church to grow bigger because it would validate me, not only as a good pastor, but as a great church planter. I wanted people to come because it’s easier to write a compelling annual report when the bars go up from left to right instead of staying flat (or worse, going down!). I wanted people to be saved because saved people talk about the fantastic church where they heard about Jesus (and the fantastic preacher who preached there!).
But something happened in the box. God started to kill me by reminding me why Jesus died. To bring strangers into the family. To bring enemies together as one. To breathe life into dead bones. Remembering all of that gave our church the solid foundation that we needed before moving into our new location with more space and more seats, and now that there’s less of me, there’s more room for people who desperately need Jesus.
While I’ll probably never meet him and he’ll probably never read this, I’d like to thank Steven Furtick for leading with the kind of bold faith that encouraged a couple thousand people to make a public demonstration of a personal commitment to follow Jesus. Your passion for preaching Jesus encourages me, and I’m not the judge of your heart. If given the same circumstances that you find yourself in, would I build a house as big as yours? Maybe not. Would I push my new book from the pulpit the same way you (and many, many other megachurch pastors) have? I’m not sure. “But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.“
And as the number of people being baptized would suggest, you seem to be doing a pretty good job of that.

If this was coming from some other poster, I think this would be great

Nautilus · Feb 21, 2014

Eh, I've met the guy, he is quite a nice on level guy. I mean whoop-de-doo he had a few plants in the audience. It actually makes a lot of sense if you look at it logically. Said massive church did an altar-call...knowing some people might be embarassed about getting up in front of that many people, have some plans that start walking forward first then others will be like hey Im not the only one...problem solved. Meanwhile WCNC is acting like the man is the next Jim Jones.

1still_waters · Feb 21, 2014

jimmydiggs said:

Unity is more important than truth, because if we're going to walk into a ditch, we're gonna do it together!

Truth helps us see who is heading to the ditch, that way we won't end up in the ditch with them.

Spontaneous baptisms of Elevation church - makes me want to puke

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