Staight to Heaven or Sleep?

[jonathanbchristian]

I believe we are awake.
Hebrews 12:1" Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us." The chapter before this is called the Faith Chapter Hebrews 11. Hebrews 11 list alot of people who lived by faith in the Bible. They are now witnesses.
Abraham was awake in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-23
I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
I believe that the word "sleep" is used in the Bible for death. This verse says we shall not all die. Because if you go in the Rapture, you don't die! I believe the dead in Christ are the Great Cloud of Witnesses and that they see what is going on.

 

[ezekialswheel]

Wow, Im so surprised that so many people say sleep. Ive heard some preach against this doctrine before. Its an adventist doctrine called "soul sleep", the scripture references are numerous. Once you know the doctrine in your reading you will see many more. I was reading in John 6 yesterday and Jesus says on four occasions in the same book, "and I will raise him up at the last day."

If we are already in heaven then how on earth or why maybe would He be raising us up on the last day? I know most people believe like this, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", there may be others but this is the principal scripture used to say we go to heaven. However it doesnt really say that does it? You have to ASSUME to many other things to make that work and other subjects are brought in that have to be proven. For instance, the words Soul, and Spirit. Are they interchangable and what do they mean? It gets deep. I heard a famous preacher say once. YOU ARE A SPIRIT and YOU HAVE A SOUL.

This is exactly BACKWARDS from what I see in the scripture. Its easy to see in Genesis that we BECAME a living soul. That means we ARE a soul. But other scriptures say when you die you BODY GOES BACK FROM WHENCE IT CAME and THE SPIRIT GOES BACK FROM WHENCE IT CAME. Which is obviously back to Jesus from whence it came correct? I could easilly prove this with many scriptures. If the afformentioned is true then it easily explains, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", as the Spirit part of man goes back to Jesus.

I think where the real problems start is when we abscribe emotions and psyche to the word SPIRIT. This is just not biblical. Genesis is clear that THE BODY plus THE SPIRIT equals A LIVING SOUL. Therefore we ARE a soul NOT we HAVE a soul.

This is also related to the CATHOLIC doctrine of WE ARE BORN WITH AN IMORTAL SOUL. This also is not biblical and its one of the reasons we protestants PROTEST the catholic church. Its just eroneous and again not biblical. Unfortunately most protestants dont know enough about there own bibles to know what they think. So consequently they go along with the first convincing preacher they hear. Unfortunately thats also not biblical and they end up with false doctrine.

SOUL SLEEP is CORRECT doctrine scripturally and if somebody would give me 5 bucks Ill give you at least a dozen scriptures to PROVE it. If no 5 bucks then you all will have to do what Paul says to do and look it up yourself or believe false doctrine. hahahha. Its up to you all. Thanks for listening have a nice day.

 

[ezekialswheel]

Hi Johnathon, I agree with you but I want to mention something. Jesus ALWAYS taught in parables, ALWAYS. All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
Matthew 13:33-35

Therefore be careful when using the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazurus in Luke. I see so many preachers using this incorrectly to try and prove false doctrine. We are to RIGHTLY divide the word, yes? Do not use a parable like those were real people and real situations.

A parable is a story that teaches a lesson. That is all it is. Its not about real life people or situations. I believe they are called OBJECT LESSONS also they are refered to as ALLEGORY. Its important to know, and would help you in your study of the word.

But like I said before I do agree with your conclusions but the rich man and Lazerus reference is not valid. thanks.

 

[ezekialswheel]

oh hold on I told a lie, Jesus also quoted old testament scriptures to prove His points so its not true He ALWAYS ONLY used parables , my bad BUT He did use parables and it still needs to be noted that "The parable" of the Rich man and Lazerous is a PARABLE. Thats my point. Ok. forgive? ty,

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Jesus spoke to His diciples without parables Matthew 13:11. They even wondered why Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables.

 

[Laodicea]

When will Immortality be given?
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.