Stop beating the kids! Spiritual abuse of Christians

[gb9]

Wow..... 5 pages about all types of abuse, yet the #1 hasn't been mentioned.

The king of all abuses..... neglect.

Yes, other abuses exist, but for every child mistreated, there's about 10 - 20 neglected.

They are the ones who let their children run amok without discipline during the services. They are the ones whose parents demand some sort of church babysitting/program where they can drop off their little darlings to torment someone else.

These parents expect the children's ministry to perform miracles & raise their children & teach them the important things of the Bible.

Over 90% of these kids end up not becoming christians & leaving church..... while the congregation wonders what happened.

Our children need us parents to be the front line of spiritual training & discipline..... not the one that ends up bailing them outta jail.

Children sit in church with toys, cell phones, & games to keep them occupied, so we can hear the preacher.

I disciplined & taught my children to love & respect the Lord & His house & His leaders. My wife & I took turns taking the children "outside" when they were rowdy..... & it worked.

Today, both of my kids are christians that married christians; one married a preacher while the other one is a preacher. They are already both more successful than I am, living in good homes.

IMO we should raise our children, & not expect the church to do it. We should train them up in the way they should go, & when they're old they won't depart from it. To me that is the best fruit we can bring forth pleasing to God.

you and I don't agree on much, but I am 100% with you on this. spot on post. I am currently nursing an pulled muscle in my leg, because I had to awkwardly jump-step out of a couple of kids way at a store, as they were chasing each other up and down the isles, with no parent in sight.

 

[LaurenTM]

you and I don't agree on much, but I am 100% with you on this. spot on post. I am currently nursing an pulled muscle in my leg, because I had to awkwardly jump-step out of a couple of kids way at a store, as they were chasing each other up and down the isles, with no parent in sight.

wow...that should take years for you to get over

 

[Willie-T]

my assessment of this post?

another PERSONAL hobby horse

we'll send all the hurting people over your way and you and your wife can smack the devil out of them behind the shed


I don't think you get this...no wait...I KNOW you don't get this

You seem surprised by that. LOL

 

[LaurenTM]

do you people not realize the heart of Father God and His pain at what those who name the name of Christ have done to His little ones?

let me help you with that

put an anchor around your neck and cast yourself into the Mariana Trench

Jesus told you to do that...stop offending the lambs and the hurting

 

[LaurenTM]

You seem surprised by that. LOL

well dear God...hardly!

I would be surprised if they would all shut up

note the immediate distraction to what abuse actually is...children misbehaving...love the way so many in here have the sensitivity of a bucket of nails

ok...ok...I will admit I am like off the charts with my sensitivity graph, but I keep it in...ok sometimes it does leak abit

people gotta get down and dirty and roll up the sleeves and sweat with the abused...not offer coffee and doughnuts

the nuts come along anyway for the most part

 

[Willie-T]

I completely understand some of the reactions here. But we do have the personal responsibility of realizing this post was never, in any way, started to address physical or mental abuse of minors.

This was meant to address incorrect doctrine being taught to Christians.

 

[Ariel82]

has spiritual abuse been defined?

let me define it for you

spiritual abuse is destroying the TRUE image of God and replacing it with a god that is not God

some of the effects of spiritual abuse are withdrawal, anger, coping mechanisms, distrust in God, confusion, deep emotional pain, and a loss of meaning in life and more of the same

irregardless of the differences in how people react, the aim, is to destroy the truth and replace it with a lie that becomes the truth

spiritually abused people act out and usually in a self destructive manner

it can be a long road back to whatever wilderness they went to live in

every single spiritually abused person will tell you, 'if God really loved me, He would not have allowed this to happen to me'..so again, the purpose is to destroy the true work of God in the person's life and replace it with a false god..

so, how do you help those who have spiritual abused? first, you shut up and listen and you might listen for a long time because their souls are in torment...they want to trust but they cannot because the core of their being has been violated

there are no quick fixes...the abuse causes the person to question everything and build defenses so that they will 'not get hurt again'...and this is for those who have managed to get away from their abusers or abusive church

in the end, only God can heal and put it all back together

remember...this is a person who does not really know God...He has become a figure in the background and there is a thick mist around the mind of the person who wants to be free but does not know how to get that way

true spiritual gifts are needed...REAL discernment, REAL ability to 'see' and the power of God working through a person to help those who need it...

and don't think you are that person...that person, is usually the one who has lived it and come out on the other side

and of course you have to forgive as someone already noted...if you don't forgive, that is the devil's 'hook' in you to continue with feelings of guilt, shame and powerlessness

there has not been one response on this thread from one person I would consider capable of saying anything I would care to listen to

what do you think Ariel?

I'm just asking her...no one else

ps...I am not in that place and have not been for years...but I recall the place very well...and how it was

I say amen.

I was going to say listening is key. Post an angry post but your words have calmed my spirit. Thanks Lauren.

Here is a brief view of the iceberg of my own experience. I don't share it with most.

When I was 8 I witness my father beat my mother because she refused to move and allow him to kill my little brothers. She spent a long time in the hospital with broken ribs. My older brother 9 called the police.

So the assumption that I don't understand real abuse, just shows me someone who hasn't learned to be still and actually listen. I can understand why a girl would run crying from the room.

God has helped me move past the abuse and heal.

 

[Stephen63]

my assessment of this post?

another PERSONAL hobby horse

we'll send all the hurting people over your way and you and your wife can smack the devil out of them behind the shed


I don't think you get this...no wait...I KNOW you don't get this

Proverbs 22:6 ESV
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Ephesians 6:4 ESV
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Proverbs 29:15 ESV
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Proverbs 23:13 ESV
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.

Deuteronomy 6:7 ESV
You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

Proverbs 13:24 ESV
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Colossians 3:21 ESV
Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.

Proverbs 29:17 ESV
Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart.

Psalm 127:3-5 ESV
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.

Proverbs 22:15 ESV
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Psalm 127:3 ESV
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Proverbs 19:18 ESV
Discipline your son, for there is hope; do not set your heart on putting him to death.

Proverbs 15:5 ESV
A fool despises his father's instruction, but whoever heeds reproof is prudent.

Matthew 19:14 ESV
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

2 Timothy 3:14-17 ESV
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

1 Timothy 5:8 ESV
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

3 John 1:4 ESV /
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.

Isaiah 54:13 ESV
All your children shall be taught by the Lord, and great shall be the peace of your children.

Proverbs 20:11 ESV
Even a child makes himself known by his acts, by whether his conduct is pure and upright.

Proverbs 23:14 ESV
If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.

Isaiah 59:20-21 ESV
“And a Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression,” declares the Lord. “And as for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit that is upon you, and my words that I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your offspring, or out of the mouth of your children's offspring,” says the Lord, “from this time forth and forevermore.”

Psalm 145:4 ESV
One generation shall commend your works to another, and shall declare your mighty acts.

Deuteronomy 6:6-7 ESV
And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

Psalm 78:5-7 ESV
He established a testimony in Jacob and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children, that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children, so that they should set their hope in God and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments;

Deuteronomy 6:1-25 ESV
“Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the rules that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, that you may fear the Lord your God, you and your son and your son's son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be long. Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, as the Lord, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey. “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. ...

Well,if I don't get it, maybe you & I can compare notes? What scriptures do you have?

 

[LaurenTM]

I say amen.

I was going to say listening is key. Post an angry post but your words have calmed my spirit. Thanks Lauren.

Here is a brief view of the iceberg of my own experience. I don't share it with most.

When I was 8 I witness my father beat my mother because she refused to move and allow him to kill my little brothers. She spent a long time in the hospital with broken ribs. My older brother 9 called the police.

So the assumption that I don't understand real abuse, just shows me someone who hasn't learned to be still and actually listen. I can understand why a girl would run crying from the room.

God has helped me move past the abuse and heal.

what many offer to supposedly 'help' others is often just more abuse even though they may think they are helping

it can be a private hell and you don't want anyone coming to your party...

I once heard a woman who had been badly spiritually abused, say that God's healing was like the peeling off of many layers...not unlike an onion

I would agree

I completely understand some of the reactions here. But we do have the personal responsibility of realizing this post was never, in any way, started to address physical or mental abuse of minors.

This was meant to address incorrect doctrine being taught to Christians.

what Willie said in this ^^^^^^^post, is so

I get that people may understand things differently, but I am pretty sure we are dealing with spiritual blockages and who is gonna admit to that

 

[LaurenTM]

hey Stephen?

clanging symbols and you can quote me dude

this thread is not about how to bring up children...and not about how you swatted your children into obedience

spiritual abuse IS about swatting those who ask questions of the 'god' though

interesting symbolism if I do say so myself

 

[Ariel82]

I completely understand some of the reactions here. But we do have the personal responsibility of realizing this post was never, in any way, started to address physical or mental abuse of minors.

This was meant to address incorrect doctrine being taught to Christians.

Actually I was hoping it more to be a thread where we can shine a light by speaking the Truth,of God's love and forgiveness. Tell others they can pray directly to God without a man doing it for them. To tell people that God finds them worthy and beloved. I would rather we focus on the truth so that all might by God's light spot the lies and counterfeits themselves.

.that our words might be living waters flowing from our hearts to heal the,nations.

 

[PeterJens]

Pain is always unbelievably hard to expose.
I used to shake, when I felt emotionally exposed, hoping I would be understood.

If mourning is a guide, it is not so much the need for words, as walking through the
emotional wreckage and letting the parts be there. I remember feeling things that took
me over like a wave, and then would fade away. The feelings seem to define how we
have been effected and allow a new framework within to be built. My feeling this is
holy ground, a privilege to be with someone, and to help someone find themselves
again.

The danger always is some do not realise to bury the feelings just freezes everything
within and no resolution arrives. In PTSD it is like the shock happened the day before.
Worse still buried emotions can work their way through in unproductive ways and outbursts
that disturb close relationships.

I used to be scared of talking about such things, but now I think Jesus actually wants us
to learn with open hearts to share and reach out through His love, to bring healing and support
and learn how to bring our emotions into perspective of the cross and His peace.

My experience is Jesus builds a new set of reactions in our lives through obedience to
His commands so we become transformed without realising. Too much analysis or speculation
does not seem to help, but acknowledging how one feels and reacts if much more important.

The cause of trauma also is less important than the effects that are left today.
I like behavioural changes one can make to how you feel, rather than believing there is a
connection from the past that needs identification. I say this because reliving trauma
just opens up wounds again, which are based on our response not what actually happened
that can never be revisited. I have seen people fold with this approach.

I have seen people changed and transformed as each aspect of who they were was
built differently by the Lord and His love. It is though slow and in the Lords time.

Maybe this helps, but the Lord is great and so is His love.

 

[Ariel82]

Someone mentioned when we see ourselves as God does or that we will be in the New Jerusalem, when God wipes away our every tears...then we can begin to heal and put to death the old broken us and be born again into the people God intends for us to be.

 

[LaurenTM]

Actually I was hoping it more to be a thread where we can shine a light by speaking the Truth,of God's love and forgiveness. Tell others they can pray directly to God without a man doing it for them. To tell people that God finds them worthy and beloved. I would rather we focus on the truth so that all might by God's light spot the lies and counterfeits themselves.

.that our words might be living waters flowing from our hearts to heal the,nations.

so simple and yet so profound!

the truth has to replace the lies to turn your world around...and it's a process

I really like what you said about living waters flowing from our hearts...this gets me excited for God's Spirit to work as He has in those who have been through whatever and to reach out and heal...if there is a purpose in suffering, surely that is it

it produces understanding, sympatico (not sympathy as in I feel sorry for you...but I can identify) patience, love that we cannot force and the seeds of the true gospel which grow and REPRODUCE!

 

[Stephen63]

I completely understand some of the reactions here. But we do have the personal responsibility of realizing this post was never, in any way, started to address physical or mental abuse of minors.

This was meant to address incorrect doctrine being taught to Christians.

1 Peter 5:1-5 1Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

1Tim 5:1Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, 2the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.

The Bible teaches responsibility to the family of God to treat the older as parents & the younger as children, teaching them as if they are your own.

So, in that sense, the other scriptures concerning raising children still apply to the Body of Christ.

 

[LaurenTM]

1 Peter 5:1-5 1Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

1Tim 5:1Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, 2the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.

The Bible teaches responsibility to the family of God to treat the older as parents & the younger as children, teaching them as if they are your own.

So, in that sense, the other scriptures concerning raising children still apply to the Body of Christ.

you do understand that these things were written to those who had it right in the first place?

obviously it is no help at all to the wounded that has been hit by the ambulance


why do you come in this thread and try to turn it around to suit YOUR understanding?

it's helping no one at all

 

[Ariel82]

I am being a bad student right now. I am on my phone while in the middle of a bible study.

However I wanted to share something we just read.

" imagine a beautiful rose garden. It's been perfectly designed and cultivated. But the rosebushes become diseased. The garden becomes a tangled mass. Its a sad, deteriorated remnant of the glorious garden it once was. Then the gardener determines to reclaim his garden. Day after day he prunes, waters, and fertilized each bush. His desires isn't simply to restore the garden to its original beauty; it's to make it far more beautiful than ever.

When the gardener is done and the roses are thriving, beautiful and fragrant, is the rose garden, restored to its previous beauty and beyond. Yet to look at it, it's hard to believe these are the same roses that were once a withered, tangled mess.

This is a picture of Creation, Fall, and Ressurection. When God is finished, we'll be ourselves without the sin---meaning that we'll be the best we can be."

From Randy Alcorn "Heaven"

 

[Ariel82]

Sorry I have had Stephen on ignore, for a while.....will read his responses when I get time later.

I put anyone on ignore who preaches at me and never takes time to listen. Or get offended by my words or attack me for no reason.

 

[Stephen63]

Yeah..... we wouldn't want to talk about a problem & allow anyone to post scripture toward it..... somebody might learn from it.

 

[Depleted]

There is always value in asking questions. It sounds like blue feels only special people should
be allowed to ask because emotions are dangerous things.

The deeply hurt talk like this, as if the Lord cannot heal them. This is just unbelief and in truth
open sharing of pain and need is the first step to honesty and the Lord's loving touch.

There is a kind of idolatry that puts my pain beyond reach of anyone. And the emotional lie makes
the feeling stronger, which justifies the deeper anguish. You can literally make yourself ill this way.

And the best counselling CBT relies on past good emotional strategies being returned to.
So we need more openness not less and more faith to know Christ loves us, and actually put this
into action.


People can only help because you make it so by opening up.

Once again, you're all about YOU! How do you know what Blue "feels" about any of this? She hasn't even been on this thread.

And yet, you have a response all about you again.

I actually know what happened there. You think anyone blunt also means they are two other things:
1. Wrong.
2. Blue.

So off you go back to me-mode without even taking a listen to what someone who-is-not-you actually says, because, again... always about you.