Study on Apostasy.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#61
Let me say this rather plainly..... any idiot should know that to fall away from something you have to be there first.

IMO, sorry to say that puts some lower than an idiot.

I've posted the scriptures, the Greek meanings, the lexicons, & yet they still say it's not true.

Acts 7:51
New American Standard Bible
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,104
13,126
113
58
#62
Let me say this rather plainly..... any idiot should know that to fall away from something you have to be there first.
There are people who are among genuine believers (mixed in with the group) who have heard the truth and even made a profession of faith that have fallen away, but that does not mean they were truly saved to begin with. We see such people in 1 John 2:19 and if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.

IMO, sorry to say that puts some lower than an idiot.
Typical sarcasm. :rolleyes:

I've posted the scriptures, the Greek meanings, the lexicons, & yet they still say it's not true.
You applied your biased logic to what you posted. Show me just one verse in the Bible that specifically says "lost salvation."

Acts 7:51
New American Standard Bible
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
In Acts 7:51, being "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears" does not describe someone who is saved. Are you implying that everyone who does not believe that salvation can be lost is not saved? You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers. Not descriptive of children of God.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#63

You applied your biased logic to what you posted. Show me just one verse in the Bible that specifically says "lost salvation."

The words "lost" & "salvation" are not in scripture side by side.

This is an argumentative tactic used only for the sake of arguing.

Their usual cry is "See? I told them "lost salvation", & they come up with something else".

The phrase "You're a jerk" isn't in the bible, either.:rolleyes:
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,104
13,126
113
58
#64

The words "lost" & "salvation" are not in scripture side by side.

This is an argumentative tactic used only for the sake of arguing.

Their usual cry is "See? I told them "lost salvation", & they come up with something else".

The phrase "You're a jerk" isn't in the bible, either.:rolleyes:
I can see that it's a waste of time discussing anything with you. It's obvious that you're determined to see only what you want to see. :rolleyes:
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#68
There are multiple crowns mentioned in Scripture. An imperishable crown (1 Corinthians 9:25); the crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8), the crown of life (James 1:12), the crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4), the crown of rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:9) and upon the head of Jesus are said to be many crowns (Revelation 19:12). Paul mentions "prize" in 1 Corinthians 9:24. Regardless, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize, not losing salvation. A prize is not a gift.

My analogy fits. Paul said - "Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." Believers are not running to obtain the gift of eternal life, but to receive the prize.

Paul mentions reward, prize and crown in the context of 1 Corinthians 9. Regardless of how you view them, reward, prize and crown are not simply defined as salvation.

So does crown and salvation.

To abide is to remain and is not some extremely, difficult burden that most Christians will fail to do as if God will so easily allow us to slip through His fingers.

Stop with the tulip/Calvinistic labels. It's getting old. Whether you call it perseverance of the saints or preservation of the saints, it's a Biblical concept.

Believers are new creations in Christ and God preserves His saints forever. You seem to believe the change is irrelevant and God is unable to preserve ALL of His saints. How many who are justified will be glorified? See Romans 8:30.

Yes we will and yes it does, yet no one is able to snatch believers from the hand of the Lord (John 10:27-29).

Genuine believers have chosen eternal life, not death (John 3:18).

Following God is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.

God is omniscient and was not surprised by the perseverance of Job. Do you think that just maybe there was a lesson in it for the rest of us? That is not pointless.
Its funny because i knew you would say crowns have different meaning in their context. Which is why i reposted 1 Corinthians and posted james. Because i had already did the research and study from interlinear books at home and online to cross reference. My words 90% of the time are not me blowing smoke. I know what i know to be true and have explained in a indisputable way.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#69
Its funny because i knew you would say crowns have different meaning in their context. Which is why i reposted 1 Corinthians and posted james. Because i had already did the research and study from interlinear books at home and online to cross reference. My words 90% of the time are not me blowing smoke. I know what i know to be true and have explained in a indisputable way.
well if what you say is indisputable we won't dispute it LOL
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,104
13,126
113
58
#70
Its funny because i knew you would say crowns have different meaning in their context. Which is why i reposted 1 Corinthians and posted james. Because i had already did the research and study from interlinear books at home and online to cross reference. My words 90% of the time are not me blowing smoke. I know what i know to be true and have explained in a indisputable way.
Different meaning from what? What is your main point here?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#72
Different meaning from what? What is your main point here?
My point is my posts above was not posted from lack of research, evidence, or scripture. I knew you was going to say that so i made sure to double check truth and make sure it would stand against your words. The research stood so i am confident in what i believe.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,104
13,126
113
58
#73
My point is my posts above was not posted from lack of research, evidence, or scripture. I knew you was going to say that so i made sure to double check truth and make sure it would stand against your words. The research stood so i am confident in what i believe.
That doesn't answer my questions, but as long as you're convinced. ;)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#74
well if what you say is indisputable we won't dispute it LOL
Lol it would be no point to dispute over a subject for someone who is set in belief. Im still learning and literally search everything yall say for truth. And really i have been led to a stronger original belief that I now can defend heavily with scripture, research, commentary, interlinear, elders, and Spirit.

Im sorry if i cant help you see what I see in scripture but to me its obvious. So really my post are not directed to the set in belief all though it could be if they read it open minded. But my post are to those who are in search for truth.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#75
That doesn't answer my questions, but as long as you're convinced. ;)
Meaning some say wreath some say crown. But rewards is a total different translation. The scriptures i used are crowns of eternal importance. I checked before even using the scripture. So idk what your trying to say.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,104
13,126
113
58
#76
Meaning some say wreath some say crown. But rewards is a total different translation. The scriptures i used are crowns of eternal importance. I checked before even using the scripture. So idk what your trying to say.
As least we agree that crowns are of eternal importance. My main point was that salvation is not a prize, but a gift. I'm not sure how we ended up debating about crowns vs. rewards.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#77
Let me say this rather plainly..... any idiot should know that to fall away from something you have to be there first.

IMO, sorry to say that puts some lower than an idiot.

I've posted the scriptures, the Greek meanings, the lexicons, & yet they still say it's not true.

Acts 7:51
New American Standard Bible
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
I agree in a sense that to fall away, one must fall from somewhere of higher position.

But wouldn't call anyone a idiot as to that is saying they are beyond the capabilities to understand.

I do not see that in anyone having the Spirit. God enlightens people in his time and some are more open to seeing scripture than others. I guess less lies, bias, or ingrained imprintation of old infancy believes that are not quite right.

We are still one body doing the same thing trying to save souls
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#78
The sooner we adopt that thought the sooner a revival can occur
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#79
The sooner we actually preach and teach about the true love and the true grace of God in Christ - then believers will start manifesting the fruit of the Spirit and then the people in the world will see Christ for who He and the Father really are.

All this condemning believers to hell is not the gospel nor does it supply the nutrients for growth in Christ.

It is actually accomplishing the very things that the apostle Paul warned about.

It is the grace of God that teaches us how to live godly in this present world so that we can be a true light of the love and grace our Father has for them.

We need to know and believe the love that God has for us in order for His love to flow from us. Preaching that God sends His children to hell is doing the complete opposite of what we need in order to grow up in Christ.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#80
The sooner we actually preach and teach about the true love and the true grace of God in Christ - then believers will start manifesting the fruit of the Spirit and then the people in the world will see Christ for who He and the Father really are.

All this condemning believers to hell is not the gospel nor does it supply the nutrients for growth in Christ.

It is actually accomplishing the very things that the apostle Paul warned about.

It is the grace of God that teaches us how to live godly in this present world so that we can be a true light of the love and grace our Father has for them.

We need to know and believe the love that God has for us in order for His love to flow from us. Preaching that God sends His children to hell is doing the complete opposite of what we need in order to grow up in Christ.
But teaching the bible falsely is also a bad thing to do. I aint forcing no one to enter my thread of personal study. I study this for my own good. If anyone joins then thats because of their own interest.

No one is condemning anyone to hell. Feeling condemned is Gods work through his word to create repentance.

You say preach the gospel but forget falling away, apostasy, and hell is part of the gospel. I in my personal study have grasped the elementary teachings so i have been moving on to deeper scripture.

In real life all i focus on to others is Jesus. And if they happen to move on from infancy then i will help them understand more mature scripture on being a disciple.