study - Second Coming of Christ

[Red33]

Some time ago, I did a study on the Second Coming of Christ. This chart is the centerpiece of the study. It is a work in progress. At the time of the creation of this post/thread, the chart contains the initial data for the study. I am posting it now to give you a "preview" of it so you can "look it over" and see what you might conclude...

I will try to update the chart with new information as I am able.

The chart is too large to insert in the post. (I think so anyway - I inserted it, clicked 'Preview Post' - [waited 'forever'..........] - "gave up" - stopped it, and removed it.) Please just use the link above and open it in a new window.

As is normal for a thread in this forum - comments are welcome...



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One of the areas that the chart leaves out which is most definitely associated with any coming of the Lord is 'resurrection', 'raised', 'rise', 'dead raised', 'grave' and any other word or connotation associated with a resurrection. You can't have a coming of the Lord without a death and resurrection and you can't have a resurrection without a following ascension. These are very important and should be part of the chart to get the full picture of what you are trying to determine. The other thing that you need to study thoroughly is the mystery of Christ and the church and how Christ relates to the church and the (bema seat) judgment of those believers in Christ, where that will take place along with rewards that are distributed for their works accomplished in Christ. Then you have the aspect of the bride and the Spirit's relationship to that bride and the calling of that bride and body of Christ unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also different judgments that take place at different times and those can not be left out as well, nor those people and nations involved in those judgments. It looks like you have lots of homework to do. The 'feet' that you make reference to, I wouldn't get too upset over that but you have missed something about that and you need to go over again including the appearance in the clouds and where the believers in Christ are caught up and what takes place and where in the heavens this all happens. Perhaps you need to study what it means to be 'caught up' and to have Christ 'touch down' at a certain location upon the earth and relate that to the advents recorded in the scriptures. What makes you think that you even understand the period of tribulation and Jacob's trouble that will be coming upon the earth as it relates to the presence and location of the church who is in Christ and have nothing to do with the nation of Israel? More homework! If you are going to make your conclusions based upon your study and this chart, you must make sure that you cover every area of doctrine and leave nothing out.

Jesus introduced the inception of the church and His relationship to it as a mystery hidden. Could it not also be a mystery as to the time and place when the church will also be caught up and gathered unto Christ in those clouds of the air after it has fulfilled its purpose here upon the earth in its attempt to bringing the gospel to every creature both Jew and Gentile? Is not the church made up of those who were redeemed and purchased with His precious blood after His death, burial and resurrection? Don't leave anything out because there will be those that will hop all over you on this and will have questions and convictions that you will have to give an account for according to the scriptures because of the faith that God has revealed to their heart according to the grace of God.

 

[GRA]

Excellent chart! Thank you for attaching these terms to a list of verses. Will use.

Remember everyone: clouds obscure the heavens.

You are very welcome. I sincerely hope that you - and others - will be able to "get some good use" from it.



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[GRA]

Mat 24:32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summerisnigh:
Mat 24:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near,evenat the doors.
Mat 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:37But as the days of Noewere,so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

If you are suggesting that there is some kind of conflict --- I don't see it...

This fits very nicely and comfortably in my study.



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[GRA]

I wonder if you looked at some of the words of 'coming' which are actually the Greek word parousia which means 'presence'?

There are two different comings spoken of in the end times. One is presence and the other is as in Revelation 1:7 where the word used is erchomai and everyone will behold Him.

G3952 (parousia) occurs 24 times in the N.T.
G2064 (erchomai) occurs 665 times in the N.T.



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[GRA]

Thanks for the hard work GRA! I have been studying this topic for quite some time. Very useful chart.

You are very welcome.

I have found it quite useful, too!



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[GRA]

Which is..?

Please see post #9.



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[GRA]

Thank you, for taking the time to explain...

You are very welcome.



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[Red33]

The idea that - Christ coming back "in the air" - and subsequently leaving without His feet touching the ground - somehow means that He "didn't really come back" (so as not to be called His "second coming") -- is utterly ridiculously absurd in the highest possible degree. His "second coming" will be "the next time He shows up" - whether He be seen or not, heard or not, or anything else or not. He will still have "come"...

It doesn't take a whole lot of work to come to this above conclusion, just a bias heart that doesn't want to accept the truth of a bona-fide rapture of the church before the second coming of Christ. A young child receives the truth without getting all subjective and convoluted in their understanding. The rapture of the church and the second coming of Christ are not difficult doctrines to understand and to distinguish in the scriptures. Those that place the church going through the great tribulation because they see no distinction get weary in their flesh with all the scriptures that they can't reconcile with both taking place at different times with different groups of people and with different events occurring. You can't have all these events that take place all occurring at the time of the second coming unless you believe that Christ is planning a jam session. Any effort, great or small, that comes to the wrong conclusion is empty and has no value to add to our faith.

 

[RickyZ]

OK, sorry, I had to go back and reread that.


I think you're missing something between


~~ Every person on Earth will know who He is and why He is here... (There will be NO misunderstanding or doubt whatsoever.)
and
~~ His feet will stand upon the mount - which will cleave and split, and create a valley... ( Zechariah 14:4 ).


And I think you'll find those missing links in the things Red33 was talking about in his earlier post about the ressurection, the judgement, and the Bride of Christ. These need to be incorporated into the chart.

Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome study, and I agree with everything you have so far. I hope you keep going with it because you're proving a lot of my old arguments!

 

[WolfInOxHide]

You can't have all these events that take place all occurring at the time of the second coming unless you believe that Christ is planning a jam session.

I believe He is planning a jam session, to announce His return.

 

[GRA]

One of the areas that the chart leaves out which is most definitely associated with any coming of the Lord is 'resurrection', 'raised', 'rise', 'dead raised', 'grave' and any other word or connotation associated with a resurrection. You can't have a coming of the Lord without a death and resurrection and you can't have a resurrection without a following ascension. These are very important and should be part of the chart to get the full picture of what you are trying to determine. The other thing that you need to study thoroughly is the mystery of Christ and the church and how Christ relates to the church and the (bema seat) judgment of those believers in Christ, where that will take place along with rewards that are distributed for their works accomplished in Christ. Then you have the aspect of the bride and the Spirit's relationship to that bride and the calling of that bride and body of Christ unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also different judgments that take place at different times and those can not be left out as well, nor those people and nations involved in those judgments. It looks like you have lots of homework to do. The 'feet' that you make reference to, I wouldn't get too upset over that but you have missed something about that and you need to go over again including the appearance in the clouds and where the believers in Christ are caught up and what takes place and where in the heavens this all happens. Perhaps you need to study what it means to be 'caught up' and to have Christ 'touch down' at a certain location upon the earth and relate that to the advents recorded in the scriptures. What makes you think that you even understand the period of tribulation and Jacob's trouble that will be coming upon the earth as it relates to the presence and location of the church who is in Christ and have nothing to do with the nation of Israel? More homework! If you are going to make your conclusions based upon your study and this chart, you must make sure that you cover every area of doctrine and leave nothing out.

Jesus introduced the inception of the church and His relationship to it as a mystery hidden. Could it not also be a mystery as to the time and place when the church will also be caught up and gathered unto Christ in those clouds of the air after it has fulfilled its purpose here upon the earth in its attempt to bringing the gospel to every creature both Jew and Gentile? Is not the church made up of those who were redeemed and purchased with His precious blood after His death, burial and resurrection? Don't leave anything out because there will be those that will hop all over you on this and will have questions and convictions that you will have to give an account for according to the scriptures because of the faith that God has revealed to their heart according to the grace of God.

The idea that - Christ coming back "in the air" - and subsequently leaving without His feet touching the ground - somehow means that He "didn't really come back" (so as not to be called His "second coming") -- is utterly ridiculously absurd in the highest possible degree. His "second coming" will be "the next time He shows up" - whether He be seen or not, heard or not, or anything else or not. He will still have "come"...

It doesn't take a whole lot of work to come to this above conclusion, just a bias heart that doesn't want to accept the truth of a bona-fide rapture of the church before the second coming of Christ. A young child receives the truth without getting all subjective and convoluted in their understanding. The rapture of the church and the second coming of Christ are not difficult doctrines to understand and to distinguish in the scriptures. Those that place the church going through the great tribulation because they see no distinction get weary in their flesh with all the scriptures that they can't reconcile with both taking place at different times with different groups of people and with different events occurring. You can't have all these events that take place all occurring at the time of the second coming unless you believe that Christ is planning a jam session. Any effort, great or small, that comes to the wrong conclusion is empty and has no value to add to our faith.

"We shall see..."

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[GRA]

I think you're missing something between


~~ Every person on Earth will know who He is and why He is here... (There will be NO misunderstanding or doubt whatsoever.)
and
~~ His feet will stand upon the mount - which will cleave and split, and create a valley... ( Zechariah 14:4 ).

It was not intended to be an "exhaustive" list with every detail... The point I was trying to make was - what people often think of as "two separate 'comings' of Christ" are actually "one and the same"...

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[GRA]

I believe He is planning a jam session, to announce His return.

"An understatement..."



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[webchatter]

i just took your advice & looked again. 2x. I still don't see where O & S occur together.("gathering together" & "all flesh will see"). To me this does Not indicate a 3rd coming. I never heard of such a thing. But it isn't necessary for God to be present when He calls us up to heaven, "Come up hither". Excellent & interesting.

 

[Brother_Don]

Christ Jesus wants us to be ready for His coming, and i don't think He will be wearing a 3 piece suit, snake skin boots, and a rollex watch, so beware as well.

 

[RickyZ]

It was not intended to be an "exhaustive" list with every detail... The point I was trying to make was - what people often think of as "two separate 'comings' of Christ" are actually "one and the same"...

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Oh but it should be. You should complete this work and publish it. If you don't, I might.

You're right about His gathering the saints and returning to rule being one happening. But there is/are time and events that occur both here and there while He's 'in transit'. Those need to be filled in for the sake of completeness and understanding.

Seriously. You've been given an important word here. Run with it.

 

[nathan3]

That chart is. just a mix of scripture. a bit narrow. dose not give all the details.

 

[GRA]

i just took your advice & looked again. 2x. I still don't see where O & S occur together.("gathering together" & "all flesh will see").

"Keep looking..."

In the meanwhile - please be patient - as I have not had the time yet to "present the study" - which some don't seem to understand from what I wrote in posts #1 and #9.

I put "what I have so far" out here so people could look at it - and possibly benefit from it - even BEFORE I find the time to "present the study"...



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[GRA]

Oh but it should be. You should complete this work and publish it. If you don't, I might.

You're right about His gathering the saints and returning to rule being one happening. But there is/are time and events that occur both here and there while He's 'in transit'. Those need to be filled in for the sake of completeness and understanding.

Seriously. You've been given an important word here. Run with it.

Please see my previous post... ("I'm running as fast as I can...")

That chart is. just a mix of scripture. a bit narrow. dose not give all the details.

Please see my previous post...

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[GRA]

I have attached to this post copies of the actual 'html' and 'css' files used to build the chart for this study. The original names of the files:

Second_Coming.html
GRA.css

I renamed 'GRA.css' to 'GRA.txt' so that it could be attached. After downloading it, you should rename it back to 'GRA.css'.

Place the 'css' file one directory above the 'html' file -- or -- edit the 'html' file and remove '../' from the '@import' line at the top of the file.

Then, open / view the 'html' file with your browser.



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