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S
My point is that if you are claiming a reference in the Prophets teaches that Christians must observe the Sabbath today, then if you emply similar reasoning, you should be making animal sacrifices, as those things are portrayed in the Prophets as being observed in the Millennium.
The reasoning is inconsistent.
In addition, like I've said, the prophets spoke through the lenses of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant required those things. They were prophecying a return to true religion as they knew it, which was under the terms of the Old Covenant.
The reasoning is inconsistent.
In addition, like I've said, the prophets spoke through the lenses of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant required those things. They were prophecying a return to true religion as they knew it, which was under the terms of the Old Covenant.
- I believe this verse was said after Christ arose.
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
[seeing that there are priests] that offer gifts according to the law:
If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night
Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant,
that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne;
and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
24Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying,
The (two) families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?
25Thus saith the Lord; [If ]my covenant be not with day and night,
and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
26[Then] will I cast away (the seed) (of Jacob), and David my servant, so that I will
not take any of his seed to be [rulers over the seed] of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:
for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
[seeing that there are priests] that offer gifts according to the law:
If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night
Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant,
that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne;
and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
24Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying,
The (two) families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?
25Thus saith the Lord; [If ]my covenant be not with day and night,
and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
26[Then] will I cast away (the seed) (of Jacob), and David my servant, so that I will
not take any of his seed to be [rulers over the seed] of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:
for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Acts 15:3-20
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
KJV
S
Why do you keep quoting Scripture without book or chapter references?
How can a person look them up in order to verify whether you are putting them together in a disjointed manner, out of context?
I think that is what you are doing actually..this is called "collapsing the context"..trying to present Scriptures in a manner that is out of context.
Please quote the book and the chapter along with the verses. Otherwise your communication is nonsense.
Plus, you are not making your point. If you are claiming that the Levitical priesthood is still in effect, or will be in effect, then you must propose that the New Covenant is not eternal, because the Melchizedek priesthood with Christ replaced the Levitical priesthood. And the New Covenant is eternal. Christ is the high priest and the Melchizedek priesthood is now in effect, not the Levitical priesthood.
Read the book of Hebrews.
In fact, this is an interesting point that you brought up, as this point itself denies that a Levitical priesthood will be in effect in the Millennium. Christ and the Melchizedek priesthood replaced the Levitical priesthood eternally.
How can a person look them up in order to verify whether you are putting them together in a disjointed manner, out of context?
I think that is what you are doing actually..this is called "collapsing the context"..trying to present Scriptures in a manner that is out of context.
Please quote the book and the chapter along with the verses. Otherwise your communication is nonsense.
Plus, you are not making your point. If you are claiming that the Levitical priesthood is still in effect, or will be in effect, then you must propose that the New Covenant is not eternal, because the Melchizedek priesthood with Christ replaced the Levitical priesthood. And the New Covenant is eternal. Christ is the high priest and the Melchizedek priesthood is now in effect, not the Levitical priesthood.
Read the book of Hebrews.
In fact, this is an interesting point that you brought up, as this point itself denies that a Levitical priesthood will be in effect in the Millennium. Christ and the Melchizedek priesthood replaced the Levitical priesthood eternally.
S
Christians were going to synagogue to hear Scripture read. They would meet on Sunday to discuss these Scriptures for a Christian standpoint and to take communion. Obviously they could do neither in the Jewish synagogues.
The Church issued the rulings in order to protect Christians from bad doctrine, including requiring the observance of the Old Covenant for Gentiles.
That verse proves nothing in regards to a continuing obligation to keep the Sabbath for New Covenant believers. Colossians 2:16-17 groups the Sabbath and Holy Days with food and drink offerings. Comparing this with Hebrews 9:9-11, one can see that those things are not applicable to New Covenant Christians. An additional comparison with Hebrews 10:1-2 uses the same language of "shadow of things to come" with regards to the animal sacrifices, which are inapplicable to New Covenant Christians.
The Church issued the rulings in order to protect Christians from bad doctrine, including requiring the observance of the Old Covenant for Gentiles.
That verse proves nothing in regards to a continuing obligation to keep the Sabbath for New Covenant believers. Colossians 2:16-17 groups the Sabbath and Holy Days with food and drink offerings. Comparing this with Hebrews 9:9-11, one can see that those things are not applicable to New Covenant Christians. An additional comparison with Hebrews 10:1-2 uses the same language of "shadow of things to come" with regards to the animal sacrifices, which are inapplicable to New Covenant Christians.
S
I had this Persian cat that would catch a mouse and keep him alive, batting him around like a plaything. That used to annoy me.
However, with regards to some who claim elements of the Old Covenant like the Sabbath, annual festivals and clean/unclean meats apply to New Covenant Christians, I like to do the same thing. I don't want to get them banned. I want to bat them around for a while before they do that to themselves
Who knows..they might even see the light and change from their bad doctrine
Their teachings don't challenge me at all...I can refute them easily. And they are sharpening my apologetics skills.
However, with regards to some who claim elements of the Old Covenant like the Sabbath, annual festivals and clean/unclean meats apply to New Covenant Christians, I like to do the same thing. I don't want to get them banned. I want to bat them around for a while before they do that to themselves
Who knows..they might even see the light and change from their bad doctrine
Their teachings don't challenge me at all...I can refute them easily. And they are sharpening my apologetics skills.
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S
I should qualify my remarks to say those that claim these elements are requirements, conditions or necessary fruits of salvation. There are some Sabbath and festival keepers who don't make that claim and observe them out of preference or personal conscience...I am copacetic with them
I had this Persian cat that would catch a mouse and keep him alive, batting him around like a plaything. That used to annoy me.
However, with regards to some who claim elements of the Old Covenant like the Sabbath, annual festivals and clean/unclean meats apply to New Covenant Christians, I like to do the same thing. I don't want to get them banned. I want to bat them around for a while before they do that to themselves
Who knows..they might even see the light and change from their bad doctrine
Their teachings don't challenge me at all...I can refute them easily. And they are sharpening my apologetics skills.
However, with regards to some who claim elements of the Old Covenant like the Sabbath, annual festivals and clean/unclean meats apply to New Covenant Christians, I like to do the same thing. I don't want to get them banned. I want to bat them around for a while before they do that to themselves
Who knows..they might even see the light and change from their bad doctrine
Their teachings don't challenge me at all...I can refute them easily. And they are sharpening my apologetics skills.
I should qualify my remarks to say those that claim these elements are requirements, conditions or necessary fruits of salvation. There are some Sabbath and festival keepers who don't make that claim and observe them out of preference or personal conscience...I am copacetic with them
Gal 2:11-16
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
KJV
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
KJV
S
I respect that. The problem I have is with those that consider non-Sabbathkeepers to be unsaved or still in their sins or spiritually inferior.
As a Sabbathkeeper, I was sincere in my convictions that I needed to keep it, as well as the annual festivals and clean/unclean meat laws. As a non-Sabbathkeeper, I am just as sincere in my convictions that I don't need to keep them.
So, I guess we all have to follow our convictions in this regard.
As a Sabbathkeeper, I was sincere in my convictions that I needed to keep it, as well as the annual festivals and clean/unclean meat laws. As a non-Sabbathkeeper, I am just as sincere in my convictions that I don't need to keep them.
So, I guess we all have to follow our convictions in this regard.
I thank God to not be under the Law, nor , be told I have to do this or worship on that day or keep this law. My rest is in God ,not in having to keep the law, which of course no man can. But Christ did and so we rest in his finished work not ours. The law is good in that it shows us we are sinners. We are to believe God, love the brethren and keep his commandment, namely love one another.
"And this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another as he gave us commandment." 1 John 3:23
"And this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another as he gave us commandment." 1 John 3:23