Sunday Worship?
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Is there are room for discussion about what exactly was the problem with the Judaizers? It should not make sense to you think that that Paul's problem with the Judaizers was that they were teaching how to follow Christ. Rather, the position of the Judaizers that is that Gentiles should be required to obey the Mosaic Law in order to become saved (Acts 15:1), so when I deny that position, it should not make sense to you to keep insisting that that I am a Judaizer.
There is a huge difference between the position that we are required to obey God's commands (which many verses support) and the position that we are required to have first obeyed God's commands in order to earn our salvation (which many verses deny). We should not mistake the Bible speaking against a misunderstanding of the way to become saved as speaking against obeying God's commands. The fact that we are not required to earn our salvation as a wage by obeying God does not mean that we are not required to obey God.
Something that is our own endeavor does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to consider obediently relying on what God's instructions to be our own endeavor, but rather obediently relying on God's instructions is the way to obey by the power of Christ. Likewise, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's instructions (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
OK, so show us in the New Testament where the Lord and / or His Apostles specifically said we are required to keep Saturday Sabbath and if we don't we will go to hell.
When the Apostles met at the Council of Jerusalem... under the leading of the Holy Spirit and recorded in the Book of Acts... they arrived at the conclusion that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and other specific rituals, including the rules concerning circumcision of males.
But they did retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.
You'll have to give me, or not, if I go with what the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that the OT law is not applicable to New Testament believers with the exception of not eating blood, or animals that were strangled, and not commit fornication and idolatry.
They very clearly did N OT direct anybody to keep Saturday sabbath
When the Apostles met at the Council of Jerusalem... under the leading of the Holy Spirit and recorded in the Book of Acts... they arrived at the conclusion that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and other specific rituals, including the rules concerning circumcision of males.
But they did retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.
You'll have to give me, or not, if I go with what the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that the OT law is not applicable to New Testament believers with the exception of not eating blood, or animals that were strangled, and not commit fornication and idolatry.
They very clearly did N OT direct anybody to keep Saturday sabbath
That's pretty hilarious!
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
God's Word is very clear... those seeking to be justified by the OT law are fallen from Grace and what Jesus did on the Cross is not applicable to them.
Sadly... your future is going to be very hot and tormenting unless you get born again and trust in what Jesus did instead of trying to justify yourself before the Lord by following the OT law.
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I don't understand what you wrote. But as I've shared before, it is only as we walk in the Spirit that we will not sin...Galatians 5:16. To be in the Spirit is to be under the sway of Christ Himself...I live, yet not I; Christ liveth in me. It is literally Christ by the Spirit directing all of you.
I realize there are spiritual realities that Christians have yet to experience, so what I'm speaking concerning may not be something that you have encountered. But it is something clearly taught in scripture, and something that ought to be sought by all God's people.
I realize there are spiritual realities that Christians have yet to experience, so what I'm speaking concerning may not be something that you have encountered. But it is something clearly taught in scripture, and something that ought to be sought by all God's people.
All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against obeying God and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. You should be quicker to think that you must have complete misunderstood Galatians 5:4 than to think that it makes perfect sense to interpret a servant of God as saying that.
In Psalms 119:29 and Exodus 33:13, they wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching them to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus did on the Cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again. Obedience to the Mosaic Law has nothing to do with trying to earn our justification.
The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so when God has commanded something and it makes sense to you to interpret Paul as saying that we should rebel against what God has commanded, then we should obey God rather than Paul, so while it is absurd to think that your interpretation of Galatians 5:4 is correct, we should still obey the Mosaic Law regardless of whether or not your interpretation is correct.
In Psalms 119:29 and Exodus 33:13, they wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching them to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus did on the Cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again. Obedience to the Mosaic Law has nothing to do with trying to earn our justification.
The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so when God has commanded something and it makes sense to you to interpret Paul as saying that we should rebel against what God has commanded, then we should obey God rather than Paul, so while it is absurd to think that your interpretation of Galatians 5:4 is correct, we should still obey the Mosaic Law regardless of whether or not your interpretation is correct.
NOT under the New Covenant......in the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).
He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.
By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).
It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB).
If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).
Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).
Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).
In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).
He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.
By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).
It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB).
If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).
Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).
Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).
In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
Paul taught we should follow the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ
1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
I figured you would get around to claiming Paul is not an Apostle of Jesus Christ.... which is an indirect claim that Jesus was not powerful enough to control what went in to His canon.
You are obviously very confused thinking that since Jesus kept the OT law... we are required to as well and that's false doctrine.
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
God's Word is very clear... those seeking to be justified by the OT law are fallen from Grace and what Jesus did on the Cross is not applicable to them.
Sadly... your future is going to be very hot and tormenting unless you get born again and trust in what Jesus did instead of trying to justify yourself before the Lord by following the OT law.
1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
I figured you would get around to claiming Paul is not an Apostle of Jesus Christ.... which is an indirect claim that Jesus was not powerful enough to control what went in to His canon.
You are obviously very confused thinking that since Jesus kept the OT law... we are required to as well and that's false doctrine.
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
God's Word is very clear... those seeking to be justified by the OT law are fallen from Grace and what Jesus did on the Cross is not applicable to them.
Sadly... your future is going to be very hot and tormenting unless you get born again and trust in what Jesus did instead of trying to justify yourself before the Lord by following the OT law.
If I were lost and asked someone for directions, then by following their instructions I would be relying on them and thinking that I was relying on myself to save myself from being lost by following their instructions would not be giving credit where it is due. Likewise, it is not giving credit where it is due for someone to think that obediently relying on God's instructions is about trying to become self-righteous or earn our salvation.
We do not sin when we are walking in the Spirit because the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), which is under the sway of Christ himself. Christ lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is the way that he lives when he lives in us.
We do not sin when we are walking in the Spirit because the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), which is under the sway of Christ himself. Christ lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is the way that he lives when he lives in us.
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I've already responded to this in post #65:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/sunday-worship.212861/page-4#post-5174118
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/sunday-worship.212861/page-4#post-5174118
I'm not talking about salvation. I'm talking about 2 conditions within the redeemed: we are either walking in the Spirit or in the flesh. There are no other choices. One is empowered by God and is sinless. The other is in our own strength, and is sinful. There is no hybrid estate.
In both cases it is you living...either under your own control, or under the influence of Christ.
In both cases it is you living...either under your own control, or under the influence of Christ.
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In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so it doesn't make sense for you to think that the Law of Christ was something other than or contrary to the Law of Moses.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to the Law of God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. So you're not correctly identifying which law Paul was speaking against in Galatians. It should not make sense to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying God.
The Law of Moses was never given as a way of turning sinners into saints, but rather it was given to describe the way that saints life as it describes the way that Christ lived. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Law of Moses are not born again. In Romans 8:4-14, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to the Law of God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. So you're not correctly identifying which law Paul was speaking against in Galatians. It should not make sense to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying God.
The Law of Moses was never given as a way of turning sinners into saints, but rather it was given to describe the way that saints life as it describes the way that Christ lived. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Law of Moses are not born again. In Romans 8:4-14, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses.
Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. The works of the flesh are those that are done against the Mosaic Law, such as in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. Obedience to God's word is the way to live under the influence of God's word made flesh.