Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#21
as far as the nation of Israel and the people they are still very much part of the end times in the Bible and are relevant today as the nation as far as the bible is concerned. Romans 11 says


17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches(Israel). If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.


19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith.

So do not become proud, but fear.

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness.(Israel) Otherwise, you too will be cut off.


23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again(Israel)

. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
Perfect!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,297
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#22
No offense, but I honestly believe that you're misunderstanding what verse 3 is really all about.

For example, Paul wrote:

Galatians chapter 3

[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

God "preached before THE GOSPEL unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (vs. 8), which is a direct reference to passages of scripture like Genesis 12:3, 18:18, and 22:18.

"THE GOSPEL", in context, is directly in relation to "they which are/be of faith" (vss. 7, 9), and these are those who "are blessed with faithful Abraham" (vs. 9).

Those who are without faith?

Well, they're lost.

Plain and simple.
Abraham was not a Jew and the law of Moses had not yet been given. Abraham was circumcised after He believed in God he was right with God before he was circumcised by faith. That blessing that was spoken to Abraham and to David God fully intends to keep even if Israel is sinning. God heard Abraham when he asked God would he destroy a nation if there were 10 righteous? God said No.

If you think about it is possible Abraham was asking this not because of Lott but maybe because of what God told Him before.

Your seed will be like the sand on the sea or the stars in the heavens. Out of that vast number God would you destroy all the sand and starts if there were just 10 grains of sand or stars that were godly? The Mercy and long-suffering of God is far more than we will ever know.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,452
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#23
No offense, but I honestly believe that you're misunderstanding what verse 3 is really all about.

For example, Paul wrote:

Galatians chapter 3

[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

God "preached before THE GOSPEL unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (vs. 8), which is a direct reference to passages of scripture like Genesis 12:3, 18:18, and 22:18.

"THE GOSPEL", in context, is directly in relation to "they which are/be of faith" (vss. 7, 9), and these are those who "are blessed with faithful Abraham" (vs. 9).

Those who are without faith?

Well, they're lost.

Plain and simple.

No offense, but I honestly believe that you're misunderstanding what verse 3 is really all about.
We will see..

This below is what I am referring to.

I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;


God "preached before THE GOSPEL unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (vs. 8), which is a direct reference to passages of scripture like Genesis 12:3, 18:18, and 22:18.
I agree with your interpretation of this part of verse 3.

and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
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#24
...and he's coming back to a geographical location which will have a rebuilt temple in it in which not only animal sacrifices will have been reinstituted (in a blatant denial/rejection of Christ's atonement), but in which the antichrist will also sit prior to Christ's return.

If you want to support that, then have at it.

Personally, I'll avoid it like the plague and call all men, women, and children everywhere, regardless of their national heritage, to repent and believe in Christ.
Yes the Antichrist is next up, I also see some sort of a temple and renewed animal sacrifice, in a direct abomination to the finished work on Calvary

Yes the future Antichrist will be a Hebrew/Jew in decent, his father worshipped the true Hebrew (God Of His Fathers) as seen below


Will the teachings in Millennialism, of Jesus Christ returning to earth "Physically" prepare the way for the future "Man Of Sin" Beware!

Daniel 11:37KJV

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
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#25
Abraham was not a Jew and the law of Moses had not yet been given. Abraham was circumcised after He believed in God he was right with God before he was circumcised by faith. That blessing that was spoken to Abraham and to David God fully intends to keep even if Israel is sinning. God heard Abraham when he asked God would he destroy a nation if there were 10 righteous? God said No.

If you think about it is possible Abraham was asking this not because of Lott but maybe because of what God told Him before.

Your seed will be like the sand on the sea or the stars in the heavens. Out of that vast number God would you destroy all the sand and starts if there were just 10 grains of sand or stars that were godly? The Mercy and long-suffering of God is far more than we will ever know.
God has a future plan for the remnant elect, chosen Jew, that will be saved, sealed, and "Added" to the Church

"The Rest Are Blinded"

Romans 11:5-7KJV

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

2/3 shall be cut off and die in Israel, the Blind

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
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#26
CLOSE THE THREAD! Never blindly support anyone no matter what it is.
The thread should remain open because Israel is the key to the fulfilment of Bible prophecies. Until 1948 no one dreamed that there would be Israel on earth again. And even though the Zionist Movement was purely political and the Zionists rejected the idea of Messiah (let alone Jesus of Nazareth being the true Messiah) the establishment of the nation-state of Israel was a part of God's plan for the future.

A careful study of Bible prophecy shows that (1) the land of Israel will not only be redeemed and restored, but it will vastly increase in size (perhaps 10 times the size it now is) stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates; (2) the city of Jerusalem itself will be redeemed and restored, and become the center of worship in the future for those who will inhabit the earth; and (3) there will be a believing remnant of Jews gathered from around the world and brought to the land of Israel after the Second Coming of Christ.

Christians should ask themselves how the tiny nation of Israel -- filled primarily with unbelieving Jews -- has managed to not only survive but thrive -- while under daily attack by the Muslim and Arab world. And the only answer is that God's hand has been upon Israel all along.

The current conflict between Israel and Palestine should be laid directly at the feet of imposter Joe Biden. He had provided TONS OF CASH to both the Palestinian leadership as well as to the leadership in Iran. Knowing full well that that money would go towards attacking Israel. Biden should have already been impeached, and now he should be impeached for crimes against humanity. Yet absolutely no one is addressing this critical issues. He wants Iran to have nuclear weapons, when Iran has made it perfectly clear that they will be used to obliterate Israel.

So politically Christians have every reason to support Israel against its enemies. And also support the Messianic Jews in Israel who are bringing unbelieving Jews to Christ -- Yeshua ha Maschiach.

When Christ returns to earth with all His saints and angels, He will literally stand on the Mount of Olives (from where He ascended) and also deliver Jerusalem from the armies of the Antichrist. These are all Bible facts.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#27
Yes the Antichrist is next up, I also see some sort of a temple and renewed animal sacrifice, in a direct abomination to the finished work on Calvary

Yes the future Antichrist will be a Hebrew/Jew in decent, his father worshipped the true Hebrew (God Of His Fathers) as seen below

Will the teachings in Millennialism, of Jesus Christ returning to earth "Physically" prepare the way for the future "Man Of Sin" Beware!

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

I agree with your posting. I think the Antichrist will be from a geographical area that now includes all the territory that was covered by the Ottoman Empire until 1914. Its not a suprising to me that Turkey is prominant in the present dealings with Israel and the Palestinians. Most of that Empire also
belonged to one of Alexanders four successors.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
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#28
I agree with your posting. I think the Antichrist will be from a geographical area that now includes all the territory that was covered by the Ottoman Empire until 1914. Its not a suprising to me that Turkey is prominant in the present dealings with Israel and the Palestinians. Most of that Empire also
belonged to one of Alexanders four successors.
Just completed watching the conflict in Israel, it pretty much started surrounding the temple mount and skirmishes in this area

I believe It will be in circumstances such as the present in Israel, that this future Antichrist, who will be a Hebrew/Jew and will come bringing a promise in false peace to a chaotic situation, taking power
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#29
Just completed watching the conflict in Israel, it pretty much started surrounding the temple mount and skirmishes in this area

I believe It will be in circumstances such as the present in Israel, that this future Antichrist, who will be a Hebrew/Jew and will come bringing a promise in false peace to a chaotic situation, taking power
It looks like the start of the time leading up to the second coming but we should be cautious.
History is peppered with expectations of the end times that left people with theological eggs
on their faces. This could be one of them. What we really should be concerned about is our personal
relationship with Christ and our walk as believers. As believers we will be judged at his coming as
to how we lived.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
It looks like the start of the time leading up to the second coming but we should be cautious.
History is peppered with expectations of the end times that left people with theological eggs
on their faces. This could be one of them. What we really should be concerned about is our personal
relationship with Christ and our walk as believers. As believers we will be judged at his coming as
to how we lived.
Support Israel?

yes, a few reasons

1. they are our Allie, they are our only hope of information and help in the middle east

2. because God told me so,

Romans 11:28–29 (NKJV): Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
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#31
Support Israel?

yes, a few reasons

1. they are our Allie, they are our only hope of information and help in the middle east

2. because God told me so,

Romans 11:28–29 (NKJV): Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
You are entitled to your opinion. But there are a few queries I have about it.

1 Israel may well be allied to you but so is Turkey and the rest of Nato including my own country (UK) they have a different take on the events enfolding at present. Are you suggesting that your other allies are unable or unwilling to share help and information as to what is happening ?

2 ''God told me'' I am rather skeptical about those who say this. Why? because my first thought is how come they have a personal hotline to God that myself as a born again Christian hasn't got. It appears that in addition to having faith in God I require additional faith that you are up there with the Biblical prophets receiving these inspired revelations.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#32
It may be theologically debated on rather a Christian should support Israel. However, no matter what side you take, Israel will still be prophetically standing for the Revelation events to occur. Israel should be supported politically because they are the only nation in that region that promotes human rights, religious freedom, and a Democratic system of government where the people have the freedom to vote. Their counterintelligence on terrorist organizations is crucial for national security for America and our allies. Due to our aligned beliefs on religious freedom, human rights, and defense from terrorism, many in the middle east consider Israel and America the same. Both infidels and worthy of destruction.

Theologically it is debated because some believe the Old Testament verses like this one below to be obsolete.

Genesis 12:2-3
New International Version
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

This is just my interpretation, but I know for a fact that nowhere else in scripture does it counter this promise. Nowhere is it canceled. The bottom portion of verse 3 was completed in Jesus Christ as all people on the Earth were blessed through Jesus's sacrifice. As for the fulfillment of the Old Testament, this is related to the demands of the Mosaic ceremonial laws, judicial laws, and completion of Old Testament prophecy.

I do not see where the promise of I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, stops from being true.
We had better be on the Jews side if we know what is good for us.

God is going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews in the future and nothing can thwart that.

Put it this way the whole world could attack Israel with every modern weapon they have that they can carry and they would lose and not prosper, or they could throw every nuclear bomb on the planet at Israel and they would fail to hit their target.

God will not let them go down for it has begun for Israel to reclaim all of their land.

God always restores Israel when they are punished and scattered off their land and He will do it again after they have borne their shame.

God said He is going to gather the whole house of Israel and put them back on their land and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward and He will never hide His face from them again which means they will be in the truth from that time forward.

The antichrist will establish peace in the Middle East and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land but God means it for good towards the Jews to turn them to the truth.

With the conflict going on in Israel between the Jews and Palestinians it could be close to the New Age Christ to establish peace in the Middle East.

God said He will make a full end of all Gentile nations but not make a full end of Israel.

Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles which is when the world follows the antichrist and so all Israel shall be saved which Jesus said the Jews will not see Jesus again until they accept Him as Lord and Savior which they will do for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance on God's part.

God said if the ordinances of heaven, the sun, and the moon, and the stars are still shining then His covenant with Israel still is in affect and they will never cease from being a nation, and he has not cast away His people that he once foreknew.

God said He will gather all nations together against Jerusalem and then save the Jews and punish the world for their sins and iniquities against Him.

Which half of the city will be taken and the other half saved which because of the peace treaty the Jews split Jerusalem with the Palestinians which the world tramples on the half of the Palestinians to get to the Jews but then they are stopped as Jesus melts the flesh off their bones with the brightness of His coming.

Which God said if anybody goes against Jerusalem, the Jews, they will be cut in pieces.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.

Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

It has already begun of the Jews reclaiming their land which Israeli fighter pilots like birds flying paved the way for Israel to win the 6 day war in 1967, and took possession of Jerusalem.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

God tells us of automobiles which Nahum did not know to call them that but knew chariots is a form of transportation so we are sure in the end time.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#33
It may be theologically debated on rather a Christian should support Israel. However, no matter what side you take, Israel will still be prophetically standing for the Revelation events to occur. Israel should be supported politically because they are the only nation in that region that promotes human rights, religious freedom, and a Democratic system of government where the people have the freedom to vote. Their counterintelligence on terrorist organizations is crucial for national security for America and our allies. Due to our aligned beliefs on religious freedom, human rights, and defense from terrorism, many in the middle east consider Israel and America the same. Both infidels and worthy of destruction.

Theologically it is debated because some believe the Old Testament verses like this one below to be obsolete.

Genesis 12:2-3
New International Version
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

This is just my interpretation, but I know for a fact that nowhere else in scripture does it counter this promise. Nowhere is it canceled. The bottom portion of verse 3 was completed in Jesus Christ as all people on the Earth were blessed through Jesus's sacrifice. As for the fulfillment of the Old Testament, this is related to the demands of the Mosaic ceremonial laws, judicial laws, and completion of Old Testament prophecy.

I do not see where the promise of I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, stops from being true.
A christian need not support Israel.

Did Jesus fight against the destruction of the 2nd temple or tell his followers to fight against those who seek to destroy the 2nd temple? No, and No.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#34
I feel some are off track. I'll make it a simple question. Is verse 3 still relevant to today?

Genesis 12:2-3
New International Version
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
I don't think we should curse anyone. Love even your enemies. So christians should not curse Israel - or anyone for that matter.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
You are entitled to your opinion. But there are a few queries I have about it.

1 Israel may well be allied to you but so is Turkey and the rest of Nato including my own country (UK) they have a different take on the events enfolding at present. Are you suggesting that your other allies are unable or unwilling to share help and information as to what is happening ?
i support all of my allies
2 ''God told me'' I am rather skeptical about those who say this. Why? because my first thought is how come they have a personal hotline to God that myself as a born again Christian hasn't got. It appears that in addition to having faith in God I require additional faith that you are up there with the Biblical prophets receiving these inspired revelations.
who said they have a hotline to God?
God said we are to love them because of the fathers and the promises, how is that giving them a hotline?
 
Jul 9, 2020
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#36
ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel.

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,452
113
#37
ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel.

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
This has nothing to do with a Biblical basis for supporting Israel.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,452
113
#38
I don't think we should curse anyone. Love even your enemies. So christians should not curse Israel - or anyone for that matter.
Christians should love and bless them after all they are the reason we were grafted in.

As a nation who bears the sword against evil, we should still to this day help defend Israel who not perfect but is prophetically still attached to verses like Genesis 12:3.
 
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
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#39
Your seed will be like the sand on the sea or the stars in the heavens. Out of that vast number God would you destroy all the sand and starts if there were just 10 grains of sand or stars that were godly? The Mercy and long-suffering of God is far more than we will ever know.
Only those in Christ are inheritors of the promise, as the seed of Abraham:

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Galatians 3:16

Even Abraham rejoiced in Christ:

"[Jesus to the Pharisees:] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." - John 8:56

Jesus was pretty clear about what He thought of Pharisees: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte [convert to Judaism], and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." - Matthew 23:15

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." - Matthew 5:44-45
 
Jul 9, 2020
847
492
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#40
This has nothing to do with a Biblical basis for supporting Israel.
Yup. Completely irrelevant! Same with this I'm sure...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyl...ets-to-mossad-spy/467VXHW7FTVYU74EZU4EEXQDOI/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-maxwells-scandal-conspiracy-and-more-than-a-few-days-in-court/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/9513...pent-30-years-in-u-s-prison-arrives-in-israel

Maybe the bible does say something about this subject...
John 8:39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”