Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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And names too. As in Palestine, Israel, Levant, etc

Point being, there are disturbing questions regarding the political formation and governance of the modern state of Israel
Well, I'm sure God will sort things out in His Coming...

For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.
(Zec 14:2-4)


So much for 'spiritual Israel'.
 
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0000000

Guest
Sometimes, it seems God uses some odd characters to accomplish His plans:

"28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid." - Isaiah 44
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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And in 1948 God brought them back as he promised HE would. Yet they are still just as ungodly as they were before.
But they will not always be ungodly.
Jeremiah 24:7
7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.
Right.


And even the "dry bones" prophecy (Ezek37-38... 39:7) seems to portray this as taking place in "stages"



[Ezek37:12-14,20-23... etc]
 
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0000000

Guest
Right.


And even the "dry bones" prophecy seems to portray this as taking place in "stages"
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I just supplied the Scripture reference informing us that this Ezek37:12-14,20-23[21] passage is NOT speaking of the "graves of DIRT" ;) (i.e. from having been physically / bodily DEAD in the ground / graves... NO!)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I just supplied the Scripture reference informing us that this Ezek37:12-14,20-23[21] passage is NOT speaking of the "graves of DIRT" ;) (i.e. from having been physically / bodily DEAD in the ground / graves... NO!)
So true, but this is...

“On that day I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel, the Valley of the Travelers, east of the sea. It will block the travelers, for there Gog and all his multitude will be buried. It will be called the Valley of Hamon-gog. For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. All the people of the land will bury them, and it will bring them renown on the day that I show my glory, declares the Lord GOD. They will set apart men to travel through the land regularly and bury those travelers remaining on the face of the land, so as to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make their search. And when these travel through the land and anyone sees a human bone, then he shall set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon-gog.
(Eze 39:11-15)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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The land belongs to God. To which He is going to destroy by fire.
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
In 1948 Israel became a nation again...or in other words born again.
For those that say that God had nothing to do with that is just ignorance towards scripture.
It happened just as the Lord spoke it...in one day.
If the Lord had nothing to do with it then Israel would not prosper as they have.
The jews from all over are returning just as the Lord said.....my sheep hear my voice.
Israel known as Palestine before it's rebirth was a desolate place....just as the Lord said.
I can go on and on but to the blinded or ignorant people it makes no difference..because it breaks their theology in half.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
This is written as a overview ...a summary....not in detail.
Jesus said this will happen also but not untill all is fulfilled.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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So it seems most people are debating rather if

  • Israel has become all believers and no longer a nation of Jews
  • is Israel only the Jewish Messianic believers
  • Does Israel still has a significant role to play as a nation
  • is the current nation the Israel of Revelation
  • if so then are we Biblically to support it.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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Well, I'm sure God will sort things out in His Coming...

For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.
(Zec 14:2-4)


So much for 'spiritual Israel'.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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This is written as a overview ...a summary....not in detail.
Jesus said this will happen also but not untill all is fulfilled.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day
when the Son of man is revealed.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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I do find it interesting how many cannot see what the bible so clearly conveys. The fight against Israel by its neighbors and many nations in the world throughout the years, even unto today is spiritually motivated

They have been blinded and indoctrinated...
This is confusing. At times God instructed foreign nations to attack Israel, so clearly they were not at that point 'blinded and indoctrinated'.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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In 1948 Israel became a nation again...or in other words born again.
For those that say that God had nothing to do with that is just ignorance towards scripture.
It happened just as the Lord spoke it...in one day.
If the Lord had nothing to do with it then Israel would not prosper as they have.
The jews from all over are returning just as the Lord said.....my sheep hear my voice.
Israel known as Palestine before it's rebirth was a desolate place....just as the Lord said.
I can go on and on but to the blinded or ignorant people it makes no difference..because it breaks their theology in half.
But this Isaiah 66 reference refers also to the Temple.

Listen, an uproar from the city!
A voice from the temple!

Clearly there was no temple in existence in 1948, so I would conclude that this prophecy has nothing to do with modern time. Conversely, the books of Nehemiah, Ezra, and various associated scriptures describe the rebirth of Israel following the Babylonian Captivity, all taking place around the reconstruction and dedication of the Temple (circa 518BC) as detailed in Zechariah.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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If the Lord had nothing to do with it then Israel would not prosper as they have.
The jews from all over are returning just as the Lord said.....my sheep hear my voice.
Israel known as Palestine before it's rebirth was a desolate place....just as the Lord said.
I can go on and on but to the blinded or ignorant people it makes no difference..because it breaks their theology in half.
Well this seems to make a lot of assumptions.

There is a lot of poverty in Israel for starters, and in Deuteronomy God makes it quite clear that a return to the land will be accompanied by peace and prosperity rather than death, destruction, and war.

Personally I have no hard and fast theology - we have to watch and see how things pan out, because God's ways are so much higher than ours - well, mine for sure.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
christianchat.com
If you have a brother who has fallen from grace and you are believing God for his restoration. do you support him against the inevitable attacks of the enemy of his soul?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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But this Isaiah 66 reference refers also to the Temple.

Listen, an uproar from the city!
A voice from the temple!

Clearly there was no temple in existence in 1948, so I would conclude that this prophecy has nothing to do with modern time. Conversely, the books of Nehemiah, Ezra, and various associated scriptures describe the rebirth of Israel following the Babylonian Captivity, all taking place around the reconstruction and dedication of the Temple (circa 518BC) as detailed in Zechariah.
Isaiah 66:1-4 below strongly suggest a future temple to be built in Jerusalem, and animal sacrifice being renewed, in Abomination to the finished work on Calvary

You will closely note the word "Delusion" used only 2 times in the KJV, both in relationship to a temple, and appear to be the same event of "Delusion"?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-11KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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Isaiah 66:1-4 below strongly suggest a future temple to be built in Jerusalem, and animal sacrifice being renewed, in Abomination to the finished work on Calvary

You will closely note the word "Delusion" used only 2 times in the KJV, both in relationship to a temple, and appear to be the same event of "Delusion"?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
I think the idea here is exactly the same idea expressed by Jeremiah prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea by Nebuchadnezzar, in several waves around 600BC. The idea really being that form and procedure, ('religion' if you like), are worthless and become actually an abomination, if the heart of a person is in fact far from God.

6: 20 Of what use to me is frankincense that comes from Sheba,
or sweet cane from a distant land?
Your burnt offerings are not acceptable,
nor are your sacrifices pleasing to me.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
I think the idea here is exactly the same idea expressed by Jeremiah prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea by Nebuchadnezzar, in several waves around 600BC. The idea really being that form and procedure, ('religion' if you like), are worthless and become actually an abomination, if the heart of a person is in fact far from God.

6: 20 Of what use to me is frankincense that comes from Sheba,
or sweet cane from a distant land?
Your burnt offerings are not acceptable,
nor are your sacrifices pleasing to me.
I Disagree, The Scripture Below "Strongly Suggests" A Future Temple In Jerusalem

Isaiah 66:1-4 below strongly suggest a future temple to be built in Jerusalem, and animal sacrifice being renewed, in Abomination to the finished work on Calvary

You will closely note the word "Delusion" used only 2 times in the KJV, both in relationship to a temple, and appear to be the same event of "Delusion"?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-11KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
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Interesting!

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth

Listen, an uproar from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the Lord,
dealing retribution to his enemies!