Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

God says "all"

not "some"

haven't you been paying attention?

Simple all of the some. All them going to Glory. If you unnderstood pas all you wouldknow it means :

1. collectively
   1. some of all types

All of the many, later on Heb 9:29

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[posthuman]

Can it mean all types or races of men?

i think the Bible typically says things like 'all nations' when it means things like that

 

[posthuman]

Simple all of the some. All them going to Glory. If you unnderstood pas all you wouldknow it means :

1. collectively
   1. some of all types

All of the many, later on Heb 9:29

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

you will of course understand why we all reject your private interpretations in favor of what Scripture actually says.

He died for all, bearing the sins of many.

 

[posthuman]

It is all men, all men that He tasted death for duh. And they were saved by His death,on there way to Glory if not already there.

all means all, not only some.
God is pretty good at saying what He means.

 

[Cameron143]

i think the Bible typically says things like 'all nations' when it means things like that

Jesus says to the woman at the well that salvation is of the Jews. The new covenant that is impending at that time is for every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. The language employed here could well be a reflection of this coming reality.
Further evidence is found in Acts 10. Peter and those with him seem surprised that the very thing that happened to them had come upon Gentiles.
It may well be that passages like the one under consideration reflect a change of understanding concerning Gentiles, and are not speaking of mankind as a whole as individuals, but that salvation is for all people groups.
Just for your consideration.

 

[brightfame52]

you will of course understand why we all reject your private interpretations in favor of what Scripture actually says.

He died for all, bearing the sins of many.

I understand, you reject the truth and deny the saving death of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

all means all, not only some.
God is pretty good at saying what He means.

You talk out of spiritual ignorance friend and deny the saving death of Christ

 

[posthuman]

Jesus says to the woman at the well that salvation is of the Jews. The new covenant that is impending at that time is for every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. The language employed here could well be a reflection of this coming reality.
Further evidence is found in Acts 10. Peter and those with him seem surprised that the very thing that happened to them had come upon Gentiles.
It may well be that passages like the one under consideration reflect a change of understanding concerning Gentiles, and are not speaking of mankind as a whole as individuals, but that salvation is for all people groups.
Just for your consideration.

yes, but salvation coming to people from every nation is still consistent with His having died for all men.

one clinching thing here that doesn't allow us to mess with the language is in 1 John 2:2 - - He is the propitiation four our sins, and not ours only, but the whole world. John isn't just writing to Jews, but to a church made olup of a mixture of Gentiles and Jews, so this cannot possibly mean all nations, here as something distinct from Israelites, and because he write not only ours but the whole world, where "our" is referring to everyone who is in Christ, in the context, he can only mean that Christ did not only die for the sake of those who accept and believe Him but that He literally did die for the whole world.

think about John 3:16 - - it doesn't say for God so loved a handful of specific people He sent His Son. it says for God so loved the world ((cosmos)) - - which means, all.

the passage in Hebrews is really clear language, but in 1 John it is even more clear. i really find no credibility at all in the arguments that Christ only died for a select few. the language doesn't say it, so you have to invent ways to make it say what it doesn't, and other passages confirm He came to offer propitiation to everyone.

it's really just that many reject Him, not that if they changed their mind He would say sorry, i am not your Savior, just other people's.

 

[Cameron143]

yes, but salvation coming to people from every nation is still consistent with His having died for all men.

the clinching thing here that doesn't allow us to mess with the language is in1 John 2:2 - - He is the propitiation four our sins, and not ours only, but the whole world. John isn't just writing to Jews, but to a church made olup of a mixture of Gentiles and Jews, so this cannot possibly mean all nations, here as something distinct from Israelites, and because he write not only ours but the whole world, where "our" is referring to everyone who is in Christ, in the context, he can only mean that Christ did not only die for the sake of those who accept and believe Him but that He literally did doe for the whole world.

think about John 3:16 - - it doesn't say for God so loved a handful of specific people He sent His Son. it says for God so loved the world ((cosmos)) - - which means, all.

Both of the verses you cite do not deal with individuals, but all of creation as a whole. In my opinion, this gives greater credence to a general understanding, and not a specific understanding. That is, all of creation groans for redemption. The love of God and His propitiation covers the entirety of the creation, and not only part of it.
These are statements of generalization, and not concerned with the individual elements of creation. There are plenty of these elsewhere.

 

[Magenta]

yes, but salvation coming to people from every nation is still consistent with His having died for all men.

one clinching thing here that doesn't allow us to mess with the language is in 1 John 2:2 - - He is the propitiation four our sins, and not ours only, but the whole world. John isn't just writing to Jews, but to a church made olup of a mixture of Gentiles and Jews, so this cannot possibly mean all nations, here as something distinct from Israelites, and because he write not only ours but the whole world, where "our" is referring to everyone who is in Christ, in the context, he can only mean that Christ did not only die for the sake of those who accept and believe Him but that He literally did die for the whole world.

think about John 3:16 - - it doesn't say for God so loved a handful of specific people He sent His Son. it says for God so loved the world ((cosmos)) - - which means, all.

the passage in Hebrews is really clear language, but in 1 John it is even more clear. i really find no credibility at all in the arguments that Christ only died for a select few. the language doesn't say it, so you have to invent ways to make it say what it doesn't, and other passages confirm He came to offer propitiation to everyone.

it's really just that many reject Him, not that if they changed their mind He would say sorry, i am not your Savior, just other people's.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[posthuman]

Both of the verses you site do not deal with individuals, but all of creation as a whole. In my opinion, this gives greater credence to a general understanding, and not a specific understanding. That is, all of creation groans for redemption. The love of God and His propitiation covers the entirety of the creation, and not only part of it.
These are statements of generalization, and not concerned with the individual elements of creation. There are plenty of these elsewhere.

if we are talking about everyone, every creature, then we are naturally using general language. but if He only died for a specific subset of all, then the language should reflect that it isn't speaking generally but individually - but it doesn't. it's written as though it literally means all have a propitiation for sin available and that His hands are held open to everyone.

and this fits with that He is not willing any should perish, for example: He has made a viable way for all to be saved. the alternative, if He provided no salvation for them to reject, would look like, He was not willing some should perish, but never gave others any opportunity at all. so we would also have to change 2 Peter 3:9 and make it say He desires a few to come to repentance - but it says all here, too.

to me the apostles seem to understand His offer to be genuinely universal, but because of unbelief, that offer not universally accepted.

 

[Cameron143]

if we are talking about everyone, every creature, then we are naturally using general language. but if He only died for a specific subset of all, then the language should reflect that it isn't speaking generally but individually - but it doesn't. it's written as though it literally means all have a propitiation for sin available and that His hands are held open to everyone.

and this fits with that He is not willing any should perish, for example: He has made a viable way for all to be saved. the alternative, if He provided no salvation for them to reject, would look like, He was not willing some should perish, but never gave others any opportunity at all. so we would also have to change 2 Peter 3:9 and make it say He desires a few to come to repentance.

to me the apostles seem to understand His offer to be genuinely universal, but because of unbelief, that offer not universally accepted.

Do you believe every stick that has been burned or every cockroach that has been squashed will be redeemed?

 

[posthuman]

Do you believe every stick that has been burned or every cockroach that has been squashed will be redeemed?

every cockroach, yes. they don't have sin.
every stick, not so sure. plants are not described as living souls but every creature is.

 

[Cameron143]

every cockroach, yes. they don't have sin.
every stick, not so sure. plants are not described as living souls but every creature is.

Then you aren't keeping to the whole of creation, including the earth. God redeems in renewal...a new creation of what is.

 

[posthuman]

Then you aren't keeping to the whole of creation, including the earth. God redeems in renewal...a new creation of what is.

sure just not sure trees are resurrected or there will be new trees. in fact not sure there's a difference, but i know a resurrection of souls doesn't mean new souls, it means exactly those souls redeemed.

that's really interesting point tho now i need to rethink trees
it would make sense there is a fractal similarity in what He does

thanks!

 

[Magenta]

sure just not sure trees are resurrected or there will be new trees. in fact not sure there's a difference,
but i know a resurrection of souls doesn't mean new souls, it means exactly those souls redeemed.

that's really interesting point tho now I need to rethink trees
it would make sense there is a fractal similarity in what He does

thanks!

Trees will clap their hands!!!

You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will
burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands. Isaiah 55:12

He replaced our stony hearts to raise up children for Abraham

 

[posthuman]

I understand, you reject the truth and deny the saving death of Christ.

tbh it sounds like you don't believe His blood is sufficient to cover all sin.

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 55:10-11

 

[Cameron143]

sure just not sure trees are resurrected or there will be new trees. in fact not sure there's a difference, but i know a resurrection of souls doesn't mean new souls, it means exactly those souls redeemed.

that's really interesting point tho now I need to rethink trees
it would make sense there is a fractal similarity in what He does

thanks!

Have enjoyed the discussion.

A cockroach was made subject to corruption by man, but Jesus didn't become a cockroach to redeem them.

I actually believe you have a greater inconsistency when dealing with mankind. If Jesus atoned for the sins of all mankind, you have those who are suffering in hell for sins that are paid for. On what basis does God judge sin that has been blotted out, placed behind His back, cast in the sea of forgetfulness, and that He remembers no more?
Further, how do you reconcile this with the fact that Jesus is only said to save His people from their sin?

 

[Magenta]

On what basis does God judge sin that has been blotted out, placed behind
His back, cast in the sea of forgetfulness, and that He remembers no more?

On the basis of seeing them placed in His Son, with their names written in the Lamb's book of life.

His Son Jesus Christ, Who is Himself life, and holds the keys to life and death. Death which He overcame.

I see you returning to this theme again and again, and wonder what it is you are trying to convey...