-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Many are given both gifts, and some given many gifts.
I suppose I do have to back-track. I was not saying that the gifts cannot be present in one person, but that the roles are not "mingled into one", meaning that all pastors are also preachers and teachers.
I would say "should be."
Some are more "gifted" than others.
This is exactly what we expect when we hire a pastor, but it is rarely ever the reality of their gifting.
I was using the requirement of the individual having the gift, to narrow Kenneth's view of the roles given.
A person's role does not narrow their gifting to that role, but a person's gifting narrows what roles they are eligible for.
In other words, the roles are not mingled.
I suppose I do have to back-track. I was not saying that the gifts cannot be present in one person, but that the roles are not "mingled into one", meaning that all pastors are also preachers and teachers.
I would say "should be."
Some are more "gifted" than others. This is exactly what we expect when we hire a pastor, but it is rarely ever the reality of their gifting.
I was using the requirement of the individual having the gift, to narrow Kenneth's view of the roles given.
A person's role does not narrow their gifting to that role, but a person's gifting narrows what roles they are eligible for.
In other words, the roles are not mingled.
A
Aren't you implying that everyone listening to the message is a believer?
An old friend of ours lost is 22 month old son from SIDS. The people who came for the boy's service were his friends and family. He spoke a very powerful message about salvation that day, because he is an evangelist. He also knew simply because it was friends and family it didn't guarantee all that were there were also believers. What's wrong with both?
An old friend of ours lost is 22 month old son from SIDS. The people who came for the boy's service were his friends and family. He spoke a very powerful message about salvation that day, because he is an evangelist. He also knew simply because it was friends and family it didn't guarantee all that were there were also believers. What's wrong with both?
L
That is the standard way it works out.
It ain't broke, so no point in fixing it.
I am not sure I fully believe that it isn't broken as a whole, but it worked in my life at least.
The way we use the word "preach" is not the way it's used in Scripture though. Paul never "preached" to the saved, but always to the unbelievers. For me to press that issue would be a fruitless argument over terminology and words. I probably pressed it too far already.
It ain't broke, so no point in fixing it.
I am not sure I fully believe that it isn't broken as a whole, but it worked in my life at least.
The way we use the word "preach" is not the way it's used in Scripture though. Paul never "preached" to the saved, but always to the unbelievers. For me to press that issue would be a fruitless argument over terminology and words. I probably pressed it too far already.
I usually refer to Chris by that name, or as our "preacher" because I grew up with the guy up front being called "preacher," The middle age people call him "Pastor Cahall". The younger people call him "Pastor Chris" like "pastor" is his first name.... even though Chris is. But what he does is, TEACH.
L
I think the model of Church leadership is the root issue.
In the case you posted here, it is fully appropriate for preaching to be done.
I just don't think that every ordained minister is gifted in this way, and are placed in a position where they are taking on roles and burdens that don't belong to them.
The Assembly is supposed to be a gathering of Believers. I think it's supposed to be more like a prayer meeting/Bible study/luncheon,
and less like the impersonal gathering of seekers along with brethren.
I suppose I feel that going to "church" is far too formal to really resemble what the Word says that "assembling together" should look like. (not against order and organization, but against the rigidity of formality/the way it's currently organized)
With the burdens of all these social ceremonies upon the hands of one man in each congregation (who is also expected to preach, teach, manage/administer/steward, mediate, counsel, and evangelize, all while not neglecting his wife, and keeping his children in line, and keeping himself pure, and not prideful), it's no wonder the average time a pastor stays at a church is less than 3 years.
How sad. The average pastor leaves or is fired in less than 3 years. Who is to blame? The pastor, or the false model?
In the case you posted here, it is fully appropriate for preaching to be done.
I just don't think that every ordained minister is gifted in this way, and are placed in a position where they are taking on roles and burdens that don't belong to them.
The Assembly is supposed to be a gathering of Believers. I think it's supposed to be more like a prayer meeting/Bible study/luncheon,
and less like the impersonal gathering of seekers along with brethren.
I suppose I feel that going to "church" is far too formal to really resemble what the Word says that "assembling together" should look like. (not against order and organization, but against the rigidity of formality/the way it's currently organized)
With the burdens of all these social ceremonies upon the hands of one man in each congregation (who is also expected to preach, teach, manage/administer/steward, mediate, counsel, and evangelize, all while not neglecting his wife, and keeping his children in line, and keeping himself pure, and not prideful), it's no wonder the average time a pastor stays at a church is less than 3 years.
How sad. The average pastor leaves or is fired in less than 3 years. Who is to blame? The pastor, or the false model?
Last edited by a moderator:
E
I think this is the problem with most churches, they have one pastor.
I agree with you. God does not give one man all these gifts (for the most part. there may be a few exceptions) he gives many these gifts, and puts them all in a local church to make that church body complete. Like the passage Angela posted. He gave many people gifts. for the edification and instruction and growing of the church. Not one person.
I also agree, There is a time to preach and a time to teach. I guess if your church only meets on one day a week. Your left with no choice but to do both. But if your church resembles the NT church (meeting on a continual basis as often as you can. You can teach in cell groups. discipleship groups. or small discussions. In home groups. and leave sunday service for the other, especially since that is most likely where new people. unbelievers or people who need to hear the gospel attend.
Even then, My church does a categorical teaching on Sunday. The pick a book of the bible. and go through it. (it took a year to do the gospel of John for example) yet every teaching has a gospel message, a historical perspective, a doctrinal aspect. and an application aspect (what does it mean to us, and how should this change our lives)
I agree with you. God does not give one man all these gifts (for the most part. there may be a few exceptions) he gives many these gifts, and puts them all in a local church to make that church body complete. Like the passage Angela posted. He gave many people gifts. for the edification and instruction and growing of the church. Not one person.
I also agree, There is a time to preach and a time to teach. I guess if your church only meets on one day a week. Your left with no choice but to do both. But if your church resembles the NT church (meeting on a continual basis as often as you can. You can teach in cell groups. discipleship groups. or small discussions. In home groups. and leave sunday service for the other, especially since that is most likely where new people. unbelievers or people who need to hear the gospel attend.
Even then, My church does a categorical teaching on Sunday. The pick a book of the bible. and go through it. (it took a year to do the gospel of John for example) yet every teaching has a gospel message, a historical perspective, a doctrinal aspect. and an application aspect (what does it mean to us, and how should this change our lives)
Well I see preaching as to mainly the Christians, it is with passion and urgency, whereas teaching is more of an indepth study of people, concepts, words , doctrine etc etc. And proclamation is just that mainly to the lost, proclaiming the Gospel message.
Spurgeon was a stellar example of a preacher, Whitefield a proclaimer and Martyn Lloyd Jones a teacher.
Spurgeon was a stellar example of a preacher, Whitefield a proclaimer and Martyn Lloyd Jones a teacher.
