Teaching Sexual Purity

[presidente]

Growing up, I read the Bible. I read the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. I went to church. I remember at about 12 or 13, the youth pastor gave a series that seemed like it lasted for weeks or months on love, sex, and dating.

He went into a lot of detail. I learned about stuff like light and heavy petting. He preached against fornication, homosexual behavior, etc. He even preached against masturbation. He had people raise their hands, not go down to the 'altar' for prayer for masturbation and homosexuality. I kept my eyes closed, but one of my friends peaked and told me a certain girl had raised her hand.

Then I read the Old Testament. Women who weren't virgins at marriage could be stoned. If a man took a woman's virginity, he would be obligated to marry her. In the New Testament, he who fornicates sins against his own body in I Corinthians 6. In Hebrews 11, it implies that the fornicator or profane person in the midst might lead to the defiling of many. There was a fornicator in Corinth discussed in I Corinthians 5, who was to be delivered over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, the leaven purged out so that it would not contaminate the whole lump.

I read the words of Jesus and Paul about marriage and divorce. I wanted to marry and become 'one flesh' with one woman who was not one flesh with another man, as opposed to sleeping around.

All this helped me gain a world view in which waiting until marriage was very important, and I wanted to find someone with the same lifestyle and values. Eventually, I met and married a beautiful Christian virgin woman.

I probably got more of my worldview from reading the Bible than from the pulpit, even though the topic was taught about.

But I notice a trend with a lot of the churches, away from in depth Bible teaching, and toward light topical messages. There also seems to be this idea that it is immoral to talk about sex with children around. In the Bible, it was commanded that the Law be read to all the people, babies, kids, adults, the elderly, every seven years. There are laws about circumcision, menstruation, and laws against not committing adultery, various forms of incest, same-sex acts, sex with animals, and various other sexual laws.

I have read that by age 44, 95% of Americans had had sex before marriage, and that about 25% of Americans are Evangelical Christians. The US used to have a more 'normal' society as far as sexual morality is concerned, where virginity before marriage was almost 'table stakes' to get married, at least for women. Virginity at marriage is no longer the norm, even among professing Christians.

Children are exposed to the idea that fornication is normal from a young age. When I was a child, movies and television were full of this. Porn was behind the counter at the gas station. Now, not only that, but movies, TV, streaming services, and addicting social media sites promote these ideas. Porn is now a click or two away for most of those who use the Internet. The media promotes homosexual relationships, really pushing it with Disney having child gay characters who want to date.

It is also the culture for children to 'go out' or whatever they call it at a ridiculously young age.

So what can we do to remedy this? How can we help encourage purity and holiness in our churches?

What comes to my mind is very deliberate teaching of sexual morality starting at a very young age. Little children who learn to talk need to know not to let people touch them in certain ways. But churches need to teach parents to actually teach their children about sex in elementary school. They don't have to know details of techniques, but they need to know what sins to avoid.

Our dating culture, in the US, has not been around forever. It evolved over time. And now it is a cesspool of fornication. Maybe churches should offer alternatives-- group activities, going back to courtship meetings in homes, or something else besides sending teenage girls off into the dark of night in a car along with a teenage boy. Whether there is sexual immorality or not, plenty of people date to meet social or emotional needs and expectations. It is a 'norm' to have a boyfriend or girlfriend. So some young Christians accept this idea and become timewasters, dating for recreational purposes, not to find a spouse. Conservative Christian men can waste a woman's valuable time she could be using with a man who is serious about marriage. He could date her to have a girlfriend without dating her to seriously evaluate her for marriage. Conservative Christian women can do the same, using dating or a boyfriend to feel social needs, or even as a way to get free meals (or coffee) if she were so inclined. In our culture, the boyfriend/girlfriend is so often a full sexual partner, which just isn't right.

As a parent, I have a Bible study just about every night with the family. We read through scripture together, pray, etc. My wife and I have both taught the children Biblical values about fornication, same-sex relationships, etc. I don't have a child who spouts pseudo 'woke' evil nonsense. They disagree with it also.

Let's discuss what we can do to have a more sexually moral culture in churches.

 

[notonmywatch]

Let's discuss what we can do to have a more sexually moral culture in churches.

You already did a pretty good job of answering this question yourself.

For one thing, you read the Bible on your own, and, as you said, you probably learned more from reading the Bible than you did from the pulpit. Ultimately, it is the parents' responsibilities to train up their children in the way they should go, and not the church's responsibility.

Quite frankly, the last place that I would want a child to learn about sex or anything else is in many of our churches, which are often nothing more or less than glorified social gatherings. In the first church that I attended, the youth pastor cheated on his wife, and then left her and their young child while marrying somebody else. He left that church, but he was immediately accepted by another church in a neighboring town where he continued to act as a minister.

In the second church that I attended, the pastor had an affair with his secretary, and then divorced his wife and married his secretary. I never went back there again.

Our best hope as a society is for godly parents to accept their God-given responsibilities to train up their own children. Shipping them off to church, school, or any other type of institution for proper training is a recipe for disaster.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I think entertainment media has really also moved to normalize adultery too. I think it started in the 1980's-1990's but really, it might have been before that too; but It's really come to full fruition today. Outside of the church, adultery is barely a scandal, and you have people with "open marriages" where it's nothing at all.

 

[presidente]

You already did a pretty good job of answering this question yourself.

For one thing, you read the Bible on your own, and, as you said, you probably learned more from reading the Bible than you did from the pulpit. Ultimately, it is the parents' responsibilities to train up their children in the way they should go, and not the church's responsibility.

I agree that it is the parent's responsibility, but I disagree that it is 'not the church's responsibility' to teach children. The Bible says of the one gifted to teach, 'Let him teach.'

This is kind of like the reasoning that says that healing has to come through the elders because it says, 'let him call for the elders of the church...', but if we keep reading it says 'Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another, that ye may be healed....' The fact that healing can come through elders praying with faith and anointing with oil does not prove that healing cannot come through non-elders prayer, or the laying of hands of someone with gifts of healing or other means that God chooses.

Quite frankly, the last place that I would want a child to learn about sex or anything else is in many of our churches, which are often nothing more or less than glorified social gatherings. In the first church that I attended, the youth pastor cheated on his wife, and then left her and their young child while marrying somebody else. He left that church, but he was immediately accepted by another church in a neighboring town where he continued to act as a minister.

In the second church that I attended, the pastor had an affair with his secretary, and then divorced his wife and married his secretary. I never went back there again.

Our best hope as a society is for godly parents to accept their God-given responsibilities to train up their own children. Shipping them off to church, school, or any other type of institution for proper training is a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE]

 

[presidente]

You already did a pretty good job of answering this question yourself.

For one thing, you read the Bible on your own, and, as you said, you probably learned more from reading the Bible than you did from the pulpit. Ultimately, it is the parents' responsibilities to train up their children in the way they should go, and not the church's responsibility.

I agree that it is the parent's responsibility, but I disagree that it is 'not the church's responsibility' to teach children. The Bible says of the one gifted to teach, 'Let him teach.'

This is kind of like the reasoning that says that healing has to come through the elders because it says, 'let him call for the elders of the church...', but if we keep reading it says 'Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another, that ye may be healed....' The fact that healing can come through elders praying with faith and anointing with oil does not prove that healing cannot come through non-elders prayer, or the laying of hands of someone with gifts of healing or other means that God chooses.

Quite frankly, the last place that I would want a child to learn about sex or anything else is in many of our churches, which are often nothing more or less than glorified social gatherings. In the first church that I attended, the youth pastor cheated on his wife, and then left her and their young child while marrying somebody else. He left that church, but he was immediately accepted by another church in a neighboring town where he continued to act as a minister.

In the second church that I attended, the pastor had an affair with his secretary, and then divorced his wife and married his secretary. I never went back there again.

If you do not trust a church to teach your children, why do were you a part there? I suppose sin can get exposed later. I did go to a church when I was a child and later found out that the most well-known leader there had been engaged in some kind of sexual immorality, maybe short of intercourse, but still shameful. Probably the first place I preached behind a pulpit as a guest, a church where some relatives lived, some time later it came out that the pastor was having an affair with the head musician's wife. The musician's wife ended up leaving him, even though she didn't end up with the pastor. But this was an independent church and it ended up folding. There was a similar situation with another independent church I had visited a time or two in that same general region of the state with a similar story.

But I have moved a lot and I have gone to a lot of churches, and I haven't heard of this sort of thing from the leaders of most church's I have visited or been a part of.

Our best hope as a society is for godly parents to accept their God-given responsibilities to train up their own children. Shipping them off to church, school, or any other type of institution for proper training is a recipe for disaster.

We all need others to speak into our lives for edification, exhortation, and comfort. It should not all be within the family. Not everyone has a family. And when our children grow up, if they want to marry, it is good to have a community of faith with the same values where potential spouses can be found.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Yes, very important: "It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;" (1 Thess 4:3)

 

[notonmywatch]

I agree that it is the parent's responsibility, but I disagree that it is 'not the church's responsibility' to teach children. The Bible says of the one gifted to teach, 'Let him teach.'

Which "church" would you recommend to teach any of our children about sex?

The Roman Catholic "church" whose clergy sexually abused over 200,000 children in just France alone since 1950?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/world/europe/france-catholic-church-abuse.html

Or maybe you'd recommend the Southern Baptist "church" which is being investigated by the Department of Justice following their own sexual abuse crisis?

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/13/1117362904/southern-baptists-doj-investigation-sexual-abuse

Or maybe you'd suggest any one of the ever-growing number of "churches" which ordain openly gay and lesbian ministers?

Or maybe you'd recommend any of the "churches" who openly support such abominations as "PRIDE month"?

I'll pass.

 

[oyster67]

Let's discuss what we can do to have a more sexually moral culture in churches.

When a person becomes saved, receives the Holy Spirit, prays to their Heavenly Father, and begins to read His Word, they will begin to desire to be able to present a holy and pure bride to Jesus on that wonderful day He calls us all home.

Until that point, we need to teach our children well. God's standard of holiness and purity does not change with the times. It was a sad day when children began to be ashamed of their virginity. Purity and innocence has been lost for so many, but we must tell them the good news that Jesus can give them a clean slate.

 

[MsMediator]

Sexual purity was only ever taught to women. In the past, men did not expect sex before marriage from the "good" girls but still went to saloons and such. Men were not expected to be virgins even in the past. People also married at a younger age before, so less or no outside partners. Women also went from their parents' home to husband's or their own joint home, so there was less opportunity. Another thing is, virginity was financially valuable for women before...this was generally a precondition for marriage and thus women's livelihoods. However, now there is no financial gain by being a virgin. There was also more of a risk of becoming pregnant before which was taboo, but now there is more access to birth control and also abortion. There are also economic reasons why people delay marriage. A lot of reasons why sexual purity is failing. A lot of guys even Christian guys also don't care if a girl is a virgin, so it is a cycle. Another thing is that being a virgin or non-virgin no longer defines or labels a woman as it did in the past. Men, even elementary kids/boys, have over-used the word "slut", "ho", etc. so that term has lost meaning and sense of shame.

 

[presidente]

Which "church" would you recommend to teach any of our children about sex?

The Roman Catholic "church" whose clergy sexually abused over 200,000 children in just France alone since 1950?

No, not teaching using a 'learning by doing method.' I am talking about addressing the __moral__ issues related to sex in the Bible along with other Bible teaching.

Or maybe you'd suggest any one of the ever-growing number of "churches" which ordain openly gay and lesbian ministers?

No, but teaching the world of God can help shield against it. Gullible church goers would be educated to hopefully know better. Those whose aim in life is to promote sexual perversion may pick up on the fact that their perversions are not tolerated in a church that teaches against it.

 

[presidente]

Sexual purity was only ever taught to women. In the past, men did not expect sex before marriage from the "good" girls but still went to saloons and such. Men were not expected to be virgins even in the past.

This is false.... 'only ever''? Come on, that is a huge overstatement and exagerration. Growing up, I was taught not to fornicate, and therefore was expected to be a virgin at marriage. There are Christians in America who think that way. I spent many years in Indonesia, where there is a stigma on male or female who lose their virginity before marriage. Their parliament recently passed a law outlawing sex outside of marriage at the national level.

You can also read the New Testament and writings from subsequent centuries of Christianity about virginity.

Also, English culture had words like 'cad' and 'rake' for promiscuous men in previous centuries.

People also married at a younger age before, so less or no outside partners. Women also went from their parents' home to husband's or their own joint home, so there was less opportunity. Another thing is, virginity was financially valuable for women before...this was generally a precondition for marriage and thus women's livelihoods. However, now there is no financial gain by being a virgin. There was also more of a risk of becoming pregnant before which was taboo, but now there is more access to birth control and also abortion. There are also economic reasons why people delay marriage. A lot of reasons why sexual purity is failing. A lot of guys even Christian guys also don't care if a girl is a virgin,

A lot of Christian guys need to read the Bible, too, and maybe some marriage and family academic literature.

 

[gb9]

This is false.... 'only ever''? Come on, that is a huge overstatement and exagerration. Growing up, I was taught not to fornicate, and therefore was expected to be a virgin at marriage. There are Christians in America who think that way. I spent many years in Indonesia, where there is a stigma on male or female who lose their virginity before marriage. Their parliament recently passed a law outlawing sex outside of marriage at the national level.

You can also read the New Testament and writings from subsequent centuries of Christianity about virginity.

Also, English culture had words like 'cad' and 'rake' for promiscuous men in previous centuries.


A lot of Christian guys need to read the Bible, too, and maybe some marriage and family academic literature.

to show how far things have come ( in the wrong way) since the 70's- back them, it was a scandal for men and a women to " shack up". live together in a husband -wife way without being married.

now, that is so common, no one bats an eye at that.....

 

[Moses_Young]

But I notice a trend with a lot of the churches, away from in depth Bible teaching, and toward light topical messages. There also seems to be this idea that it is immoral to talk about sex with children around. In the Bible, it was commanded that the Law be read to all the people, babies, kids, adults, the elderly, every seven years. There are laws about circumcision, menstruation, and laws against not committing adultery, various forms of incest, same-sex acts, sex with animals, and various other sexual laws.

Growing up, I went to a good church, but I noticed it had this problem. I think the topic was marriage or love (or something similar), and there was a passage from Song of Solomon. The pastor got up to a verse before it described the beloved's breasts (I think it was Song of Solomon 4:5), and then joked "But I'll think we'll stop it there, men", as if it were wrong to even say the word "breasts". I remember thinking that if Christians were afraid to read what was in the bible and develop a firm view of what was good and healthy, they'd obtain their perspective from elsewhere and likely develop a twisted outlook on life.

It reminds me of those who claim that any thoughts about sex are evil, but if this truly were the case, people wouldn't marry. There's a difference between love and lust, just the same as there's a difference between being hungry and gluttony, or even drinking wine and being drunk. God didn't create us without desires, but its what we do with those desires that is important, not trying to pretend they don't exist.

 

[Cameron143]

Growing up, I went to a good church, but I noticed it had this problem. I think the topic was marriage or love (or something similar), and there was a passage from Song of Solomon. The pastor got up to a verse before it described the beloved's breasts (I think it was Song of Solomon 4:5), and then joked "But I'll think we'll stop it there, men", as if it were wrong to even say the word "breasts". I remember thinking that if Christians were afraid to read what was in the bible and develop a firm view of what was good and healthy, they'd obtain their perspective from elsewhere and likely develop a twisted outlook on life.

It reminds me of those who claim that any thoughts about sex are evil, but if this truly were the case, people wouldn't marry. There's a difference between love and lust, just the same as there's a difference between being hungry and gluttony, or even drinking wine and being drunk. God didn't create us without desires, but its what we do with those desires that is important, not trying to pretend they don't exist.

Well said.

 

[presidente]

Growing up, I went to a good church, but I noticed it had this problem. I think the topic was marriage or love (or something similar), and there was a passage from Song of Solomon. The pastor got up to a verse before it described the beloved's breasts (I think it was Song of Solomon 4:5), and then joked "But I'll think we'll stop it there, men", as if it were wrong to even say the word "breasts". I remember thinking that if Christians were afraid to read what was in the bible and develop a firm view of what was good and healthy, they'd obtain their perspective from elsewhere and likely develop a twisted outlook on life.

That is an excellent illustration of what I am talking about--- Victorian mores held in higher regard than a Biblical perspective of sex. My family has Bible study at night. We put the Bible up on the TV screen and have the kids and us parents take turns reading it. We usually teach a little out of it or comment on its, also. One of my daughters would skip over the word 'virgin.' Her mom really got on her case about that... not wanting to read the scriptures over something like that.

It reminds me of those who claim that any thoughts about sex are evil, but if this truly were the case, people wouldn't marry. There's a difference between love and lust, just the same as there's a difference between being hungry and gluttony, or even drinking wine and being drunk. God didn't create us without desires, but its what we do with those desires that is important, not trying to pretend they don't exist.

I remember I was looking at posts in the singles forum here and I saw someone say something like, "I'm not talking about doing something bad, like having sex." I get it. They are singles, and now it would be bad to have sex. But if your married, thinking sex is bad could cause you to do wrong in that area of life by not having sex with your spouse.

 

[MsMediator]

Sex turns evil even in marriage when men (and women) decide to bring what they watch on porn to the bedroom. Also, if the power dynamics lean heavily in one direction (extreme case is rape) then it is also evil. Sex has to be purely "lovemaking" otherwise it is bad.

 

[MsMediator]

"I'm not talking about doing something bad, like having sex." I

I think this is due to a combination of things. People are naturally ashamed of being naked, for one thing, due to the original sin. Every time nakedness is discussed or seen there is some shame. Another reason is people preaching sex is bad to stop others from having sex.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Another important thing imo is to promote Celibacy for men and Virginity for women as a valid Christian option. Only Adultery and Fornication are bad (and sodomy etc but that's not the issue here). Either Matrimony or Viriginity are legitimate. Here in 1 Cor 7, St. Paul the Apostle says it's perfectly legitimate for Christians to choose to be celibate, if that is the Lord's Calling for one's life, and the fact that so many thoughout Christian history have done it successfully shows how misguided our modern pagan fornication-drenched culture is. Fornication imo is the number one cause of loss of faith among the young, and also very likely can lead to unsuccessful marriages and divorces later on. Sex education is important and parents should be the one who teach their children about Love, Sex and Marriage. Here is Apostle Paul.

1 Corinthians 7: Concerning Married Life:

7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.