TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

[iamsoandso]

@iamsoandso,I wasn't being flippant. I know what you share is well thought out and you ask questions hoping to have people draw their own conclusions. I earnestly don't understand what it is you want me to consider. If you could lower yourself for my sake it would be much appreciated.

In your post you mentioned the land promise from Joshua. People often quote this and fail to look elsewhere in Scripture for the same in 1 Kings 4:21 onward it states that in the days of Solomon it ruled over ALL THE KINGDOMS from the river to the land of the Philistines and as far as the border of Egypt. So Israel is "also" a kingdom that at one time was a dominating empire in the known world. The nations that ruled are (1)Egypt,(2)Israel,(3)Babylon,(4)M/Persia,(5)Greece,(6),Rome Five were,one is...ect. and the beast that was,was not yet is even he is the 8th and is OF THE SEVEN... it had ruled,received a deadly wound but those that dwelt on the earth healed it's deadly wound(it ascended out of the pit)...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thats not true

God said he would make abraham a great nation.. That is not to all nations

He said he would make him a father of many nations.. thats not t all people

he said he will give the one great nation land. That is not to all nations

he said in him will all the world be blessed.

this is the ONLY aspect of the covenant with abraham that concerns everyone

“God said he would make abraham a great nation.. That is not to all nations”

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great;

and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He made that covenant with Abram the Hebrew for his flesh and blood descendants pertaining to this earthly land

He made this covenant with Abraham the father of many nations

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram,

but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[The_old_guy]

TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem.
For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed....
Many if Not most believers are watching for this so called construct to be built basing their end times readiness on that event......However, DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAY THERE WILL BE A TEMPLE?
[Rev 11:1-2 ] 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD AND THE ALTER, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
One of the clearest passages indicating a temple, and to be certain, one that seems to indicate a third temples existence. during the 70th week.
the structure described in the above passage, is a brick & mortar building...ruling out the TENT (tabernacle) theory so what explanation can there be? I believe that it is an illustration for John's benefit as He is writing the book of Revelation.
However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? when in fact it would be sacrilege for animal sacrifice to be instituted once again. the benefit would primarily exist to be a home base for the anti christ, not BELIEVERS OR JEWS.... yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place....so what is JOHN seeing? I believe He is simply seeing the Temple as it existed in HIS DAY...NOT a FUTURE rebuilt structure. I'll Admit I don't have all the answers...but I do know there will BE NO RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE for a third temple....
I will show later...how if this 3rd Temple is built, it must also be destroyed AGAIN.....
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!!

Paul and Peter both compare the people of God to a temple. That's what I think the passage is about, since Revelation is very symbolic.

 

[Cameron143]

NO

It was an eternal promise. Joshua only fulfilled the part that 400 years later you will occupy the land

The land promise is forever. Joshua was not forever

I can say the same

as with saying the abomination of desolation will be seen a physical event, which will lead to a great tribulation which will be so severe no flesh would survive unless God cuts that time short. and it is cut short by the return of Jesus in the clouds where the whole world sees him. Until I see that, it has not heppened

And when good says he made a great nation from abraham, and gave them some land forever. That unless forever has ceased to exist. That promise still exists..

Try another route. A couple of questions:
...do you believe the earth will be destroyed?
...if the tribulation comes as you propose above, who is the wrath upon and why?

 

[Cameron143]

In your post you mentioned the land promise from Joshua. People often quote this and fail to look elsewhere in Scripture for the same in 1 Kings 4:21 onward it states that in the days of Solomon it ruled over ALL THE KINGDOMS from the river to the land of the Philistines and as far as the border of Egypt. So Israel is "also" a kingdom that at one time was a dominating empire in the known world. The nations that ruled are (1)Egypt,(2)Israel,(3)Babylon,(4)M/Persia,(5)Greece,(6),Rome Five were,one is...ect. and the beast that was,was not yet is even he is the 8th and is OF THE SEVEN... it had ruled,received a deadly wound but those that dwelt on the earth healed it's deadly wound(it ascended out of the pit)...

I see. You believe there must be 10 total kingdoms rather than 4 kingdoms and final one having 10 heads? Now I understand why I didn't understand some things the other night. You must not believe the return of Jesus is imminent.

 

[iamsoandso]

I see. You believe there must be 10 total kingdoms rather than 4 kingdoms and final one having 10 heads? Now I understand why I didn't understand some things the other night. You must not believe the return of Jesus is imminent.

No that's not correct at all actually I believe most near the same as you do in that in ad70 Israel and the temple were destroyed(received the deadly wound)... where I differ is in that those that dwelt on the earth said "let us make an image of the beast that..." as is said in Revelation 13:14 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm and did so instead of waiting for the Lord to bring his kingdom with him in his coming. They took it upon themselves to create an nation and call it after Gods name now it will build an Temple and blaspheme the true Temple of God in doing so.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

“God said he would make abraham a great nation.. That is not to all nations”

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great;

and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He made that covenant with Abram the Hebrew for his flesh and blood descendants pertaining to this earthly land

He made this covenant with Abraham the father of many nations

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram,

but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thankyou for proving my point for me

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Try another route. A couple of questions:
...do you believe the earth will be destroyed?

yes and a new one made. And guess what even a new jerusalem

...if the tribulation comes as you propose above, who is the wrath upon and why?

Rev 6: And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thankyou for proving my point for me

….ok but like I was saying I’m g N a move on now this is just wasting both our time .

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

….ok but like I was saying I’m g N a move on now this is just wasting both our time .

Yes, you do keep saying that, then coming back.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No that's not correct at all actually I believe most near the same as you do in that in ad70 Israel and the temple were destroyed(received the deadly wound)... where I differ is in that those that dwelt on the earth said "let us make an image of the beast that..." as is said in Revelation 13:14 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm and did so instead of waiting for the Lord to bring his kingdom with him in his coming. They took it upon themselves to create an nation and call it after Gods name now it will build an Temple and blaspheme the true Temple of God in doing so.

wow that’s a really interesting thought
“And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:6‬ ‭

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, you do keep saying that, then coming back.

I’m just gonna put you on ignore at this point God bless I hope you find someone. You can agree with here

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I’m just gonna put you on ignore at this point God bless I hope you find someone. You can agree with here

I am not here to find someone to agree with.

But since you only want to talk to people who agree with you. Go ahead and ignore me.. Prove once again who is the hypocrite here

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I love it when people make the excuse that others only will listen to those who agree with them.

when it is the exact thing they do. and then when all else fails. lets just put the other person on ignore.

 

[iamsoandso]

wow that’s a really interesting thought
“And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:6‬ ‭

And Satan is an tricky one transforming himself into an angel of light right in front of their faces where they would never think to look. It's convenient I suppose in that as long as that image,AOD ect. is far off in the past or off several generation's into the future where it wont effect those in the present it makes for a warm comfortable place in our minds. It also makes for a convenient place in time to hide an entire kingdom...

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus said if they repent he will keep his promise.

In fact. Prophecy says they will repent and be restored.

These are Gods word. not mine.. so believe what you want

Rev 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Zech 12
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

 

[Kroogz]

Many people believe that ALL "prophecy" was fulfilled by the time of the 70ad events.

Hence, all that is left (from their perspective) is not "prophecy"... but "types" now [all presently] "realized" (if that makes sense). There's nothing in prophecy speaking to the "future" beyond 70ad (according to some)... IOW, all "prophecy" was fulfilled in Christ's FIRST ADVENT (and the residual effects... like the "70ad events"). I disagree with that view, of course.

The irony of it is, this is why most of the Jews rejected Christ and still do. They thought the Messiah was coming to fulfill all prophecy as the Conquering King. They missed the suffering servant part and the second coming.......as the Conquering King fulfilling all prophecies.

If it was all fulfilled we would see Israel mourning for The Lord Jesus Christ, not rejecting Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rev 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Zech 12
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

“And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places. And your altars shall be desolate, and your images shall be broken: and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars.

In all your dwellingplaces the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations.

And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.

He that is far off shall die of the pestilence; and he that is near shall fall by the sword; and he that remaineth and is besieged shall die by the famine: thus will I accomplish my fury upon them. Then shall ye know that I am the LORD, when their slain men shall be among their idols round about their altars, upon every high hill, in all the tops of the mountains, and under every green tree, and under every thick oak, the place where they did offer sweet savour to all their idols.

So will I stretch out my hand upon them, and make the land desolate, yea, more desolate than the wilderness toward Diblath, in all their habitations: and they shall know that I am the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭6:1-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land. Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations.

And mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭7:2-4‬ ‭

 

[Cameron143]

No that's not correct at all actually I believe most near the same as you do in that in ad70 Israel and the temple were destroyed(received the deadly wound)... where I differ is in that those that dwelt on the earth said "let us make an image of the beast that..." as is said in Revelation 13:14 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm and did so instead of waiting for the Lord to bring his kingdom with him in his coming. They took it upon themselves to create an nation and call it after Gods name now it will build an Temple and blaspheme the true Temple of God in doing so.

Appreciate the clarification. So Revelation 13:14 takes place when?

 

[Cameron143]

yes and a new one made. And guess what even a new jerusalem

Rev 6: And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

If there is a new earth, then the promise of the land being given eternally can't be true. The land spoken of didn't last eternally. It will be destroyed and a different land given.

So, wrath comes on the whole world? For what are they receiving wrath? Why is it called the wrath of the Lamb?