TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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https://mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/qorbanot.htm
Do Jews want to resume sacrifices?
Orthodox Jews do. There are several places in our daily prayer services where we pray for the restoration of the Temple and the resumption of its rituals, including the rituals of sacrifice.
Approximately 5 million Jews live in Israel. Orthodoxy is the only movement that is formally and legally recognized in Israel. Until very recently, only Orthodox Jews could serve on religious councils. The Orthodox rabbinate in Israel controls matters of personal status, such as marriage, conversion, and divorce.
Do Jews want to resume sacrifices?
Orthodox Jews do. There are several places in our daily prayer services where we pray for the restoration of the Temple and the resumption of its rituals, including the rituals of sacrifice.
Approximately 5 million Jews live in Israel. Orthodoxy is the only movement that is formally and legally recognized in Israel. Until very recently, only Orthodox Jews could serve on religious councils. The Orthodox rabbinate in Israel controls matters of personal status, such as marriage, conversion, and divorce.
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. Why say there my thoughts and why make the real McCoy to mean animal sacrifice
Here you go again answer the rest the post.
Are the Jews under a new covenant of prayer sacrifice or not ? And answer post 810 and 812, or can you not be the grown up you are ?
Atonement in the Absence of Sacrifices?
By Shmuel Kogan
Question:
Please help me to understand. If the foundation for G‑d’s forgiveness and atonement was initially the sacrifice on the altar in either the Tabernacle or later the Temple, how does one now find forgiveness and atonement, since the Temple and physical sacrifices no longer exist?
Answer:
You ask an excellent question. Are we at a loss with regards to our ability to attain forgiveness from G‑d due to the loss of our Temple?
I’d first like to point out that this question isn’t specific to sacrifices. There are many mitzvot that we cannot perform today because of our exiled state. (See Nowadays, how many of the Torah’s commandments are still in force?) Among the other mitzvot we cannot observe today are pilgrimage to the Temple for the festivals, many tithes, any many laws associated with ritual purity and impurity.
While we are deprived of these many mitzvot, G‑d gave us alternative ways to realize the benefits that these mitzvot afforded us (albeit not in their most ideal form—otherwise we could always have always made do with the alternatives). Let us use sacrifices and atonements as an example:
Some have claimed that atonement can be attained only through blood sacrifice.
This cannot be the case. After all, one of the offerings brought by a sinner was the korban minchah, which was made up of flour.1 We also find in the Torah that both incense2 and monetary donations3 served to atone for the people.4 It should be noted that nowhere in the Torah is it stated that atonement can be found only through sacrifice, never mind blood sacrifice.5
In Temple times, an important part of atonement was normally a sacrifice brought to the Temple. But where does that leave us today, with no Temple and no possibility to sacrifice? Let us look to the Torah for a precedent.
In the book of Jonah, the people of Nineveh had sinned and G‑d was going to punish them. When Jonah showed them the error of their ways, they fasted and prayed, and were forgiven. The same thing happened in the book of Esther. Living in Persia between the first and second Temples, they fasted, regretted their sins and were forgiven. These historical examples clearly show that when there is no Temple, sincere teshuvah (repentance) is all that G‑d demands.
In fact, this was always part of the system. King Solomon himself, in his speech dedicating the first Holy Temple, already anticipates the possibility of Israel being denied access to the holy place:
Our sages tell us 7 that the world stands on three pillars: Torah, avodah (literally, “work” or “service”) and gemilut chassadim (kindness and charity). We can approach this particular issue from the perspective of any one of these pillars.
Torah: The Talmud8 says that one who delves into the laws of sacrifices is considered as if he has actually offered a sacrifice. By studying the laws and their meanings, we achieve the atonement and closeness to G‑d that a sacrifice accomplishes.
Avodah: We replace the sacrificial “service of G‑d” with prayer, the service of the heart articulated in words. In the words of the prophet Hosea: “We will render the prayers of our lips in place of the sacrifices of bullocks.”9 As such, the three daily prayers are in place of the daily “services” and sacrifices that were performed in the Temple. On Shabbat we add the Musaf prayer, since an additional sacrifice was offered in the Temple every Shabbat. Another avenue to fill the void.
Gemilut Chassadim: Giving charity, giving of oneself, is also considered to be a method of finding atonement. One who gives his hard-earned money to charity is, in a sense, truly giving of himself—sacrificing himself for the greater good. This might be the ultimate form of sacrifice, as he is really giving something of himself—money that could have been spent for his personal benefit and gain.
Here you go again answer the rest the post.
Are the Jews under a new covenant of prayer sacrifice or not ? And answer post 810 and 812, or can you not be the grown up you are ?
Atonement in the Absence of Sacrifices?
By Shmuel Kogan
Please help me to understand. If the foundation for G‑d’s forgiveness and atonement was initially the sacrifice on the altar in either the Tabernacle or later the Temple, how does one now find forgiveness and atonement, since the Temple and physical sacrifices no longer exist?
Answer:
You ask an excellent question. Are we at a loss with regards to our ability to attain forgiveness from G‑d due to the loss of our Temple?
I’d first like to point out that this question isn’t specific to sacrifices. There are many mitzvot that we cannot perform today because of our exiled state. (See Nowadays, how many of the Torah’s commandments are still in force?) Among the other mitzvot we cannot observe today are pilgrimage to the Temple for the festivals, many tithes, any many laws associated with ritual purity and impurity.
While we are deprived of these many mitzvot, G‑d gave us alternative ways to realize the benefits that these mitzvot afforded us (albeit not in their most ideal form—otherwise we could always have always made do with the alternatives). Let us use sacrifices and atonements as an example:
Some have claimed that atonement can be attained only through blood sacrifice.
This cannot be the case. After all, one of the offerings brought by a sinner was the korban minchah, which was made up of flour.1 We also find in the Torah that both incense2 and monetary donations3 served to atone for the people.4 It should be noted that nowhere in the Torah is it stated that atonement can be found only through sacrifice, never mind blood sacrifice.5
In Temple times, an important part of atonement was normally a sacrifice brought to the Temple. But where does that leave us today, with no Temple and no possibility to sacrifice? Let us look to the Torah for a precedent.
In the book of Jonah, the people of Nineveh had sinned and G‑d was going to punish them. When Jonah showed them the error of their ways, they fasted and prayed, and were forgiven. The same thing happened in the book of Esther. Living in Persia between the first and second Temples, they fasted, regretted their sins and were forgiven. These historical examples clearly show that when there is no Temple, sincere teshuvah (repentance) is all that G‑d demands.
In fact, this was always part of the system. King Solomon himself, in his speech dedicating the first Holy Temple, already anticipates the possibility of Israel being denied access to the holy place:
If they sin against You—for there is no man who does not sin—then You will be angry with them and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near. When they bethink themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying, “We have sinned and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness”; when they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, to the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name—then You shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and uphold their cause.”6
Here is a thought on contemporary (sacrificeless) atonement:Our sages tell us 7 that the world stands on three pillars: Torah, avodah (literally, “work” or “service”) and gemilut chassadim (kindness and charity). We can approach this particular issue from the perspective of any one of these pillars.
Torah: The Talmud8 says that one who delves into the laws of sacrifices is considered as if he has actually offered a sacrifice. By studying the laws and their meanings, we achieve the atonement and closeness to G‑d that a sacrifice accomplishes.
Avodah: We replace the sacrificial “service of G‑d” with prayer, the service of the heart articulated in words. In the words of the prophet Hosea: “We will render the prayers of our lips in place of the sacrifices of bullocks.”9 As such, the three daily prayers are in place of the daily “services” and sacrifices that were performed in the Temple. On Shabbat we add the Musaf prayer, since an additional sacrifice was offered in the Temple every Shabbat. Another avenue to fill the void.
Gemilut Chassadim: Giving charity, giving of oneself, is also considered to be a method of finding atonement. One who gives his hard-earned money to charity is, in a sense, truly giving of himself—sacrificing himself for the greater good. This might be the ultimate form of sacrifice, as he is really giving something of himself—money that could have been spent for his personal benefit and gain.
It wasn't a big fort or a small fort. It was a Roman fort of typical Roman design parameters.
The footprint and foundation extents can easily be seen on Google earth.
And it is about 38 acres or so. STANDARD SIZE for a Roman outpost. Housing an entire legion minimum plus all support staff.
Your opinions are erroneous and obsolete and need to be jettisoned and replaced by facts.
Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot – Popular Archeology (popular-archaeology.com)
"Josephus effuses about its splendor and how much Herod, a prolific spender, dispensed for its construction. Herod dubbed the Roman camp “Fort Antonia” after his friend, Mark Antony, and it assured his reputation as a master builder by its unparalleled magnificence. It must have been about 40 acres in size, like other typical Roman camps capable of housing a legion of 5,000-6,000 soldiers. Josephus described it as being “erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height” on a “great precipice.” It had “all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps, such that it had all the conveniences of cities and seemed like it was composed of several cities.” With 60-foot walls, four towers (the southeast being 105 feet high), and smooth stones installed on its slopes, it dominated the temple to its south, ready to fend off the most formidable attacks."
The footprint and foundation extents can easily be seen on Google earth.
And it is about 38 acres or so. STANDARD SIZE for a Roman outpost. Housing an entire legion minimum plus all support staff.
Your opinions are erroneous and obsolete and need to be jettisoned and replaced by facts.
Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot – Popular Archeology (popular-archaeology.com)
"Josephus effuses about its splendor and how much Herod, a prolific spender, dispensed for its construction. Herod dubbed the Roman camp “Fort Antonia” after his friend, Mark Antony, and it assured his reputation as a master builder by its unparalleled magnificence. It must have been about 40 acres in size, like other typical Roman camps capable of housing a legion of 5,000-6,000 soldiers. Josephus described it as being “erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height” on a “great precipice.” It had “all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps, such that it had all the conveniences of cities and seemed like it was composed of several cities.” With 60-foot walls, four towers (the southeast being 105 feet high), and smooth stones installed on its slopes, it dominated the temple to its south, ready to fend off the most formidable attacks."
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More crazy talk.
God DID NOT DISAPPROVE of the very sacrifices that He ordained as lessons to the world of salvation.
God disapproved of how Israel did them (hypocritically) and in what spirit they did them (in bad faith).
Amo 5:21
I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
God does not hate HIS feast days. He hates THEIR feast days. The corrupted manner and spirit of them!
God DID NOT DISAPPROVE of the very sacrifices that He ordained as lessons to the world of salvation.
God disapproved of how Israel did them (hypocritically) and in what spirit they did them (in bad faith).
Amo 5:21
I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
God does not hate HIS feast days. He hates THEIR feast days. The corrupted manner and spirit of them!
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Their question and conclusion:
~~~~~
Question:
Please help me to understand. If the foundation for G‑d’s forgiveness and atonement was initially the sacrifice on the altar in either the Tabernacle or later the Temple, how does one now find forgiveness and atonement, since the Temple and physical sacrifices no longer exist?
Their conclusion:
We should ask this question of G‑d every day, asking Him when He will return to us the Temple in Jerusalem, so that we will once and for all truly be able to fill this void with the real McCoy.
~~~~~~
Noted: You deleted this final thought in your reply.
~~~~~
Question:
Please help me to understand. If the foundation for G‑d’s forgiveness and atonement was initially the sacrifice on the altar in either the Tabernacle or later the Temple, how does one now find forgiveness and atonement, since the Temple and physical sacrifices no longer exist?
Their conclusion:
We should ask this question of G‑d every day, asking Him when He will return to us the Temple in Jerusalem, so that we will once and for all truly be able to fill this void with the real McCoy.
~~~~~~
Noted: You deleted this final thought in your reply.
Well if the lord as declared all food safe to eat then that means all animals are no longer unclean,
So answer this question @cv5 and @Kroogz
Why does it need to be a lamb that gets sacrificed in Daniels prophecy for the future.
Are you sure that lamb is not Christians that will be sacrificed everyday 🤔
So answer this question @cv5 and @Kroogz
Why does it need to be a lamb that gets sacrificed in Daniels prophecy for the future.
Are you sure that lamb is not Christians that will be sacrificed everyday 🤔
No, the daily sacrifice of two lambs, one in the morning and one in the evening are not taking place at present because there is no physical temple standing to perform the daily sacrifice.
Jesus has not returned because when He returns in Revelation 19 at the end of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel, everyone alive that day will know it. On the day that Jesus returns, the beast-king (the Antichrist person) and the false prophet, both standing on the temple mount that day, will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20
And the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king will be turned to ashes, exposing Satan to all present that day to behold him, i.e. see him in plain sight. He will be cast into the bottomless pit prison, Revelation 20:1-3.
And the armies that will have assembled at Armageddon will all be destroyed by Jesus, in Revelation 19:21.
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Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree generation to know when his return is near, and that generation will not pass away without seeing all of the end times events take place.
1967 Jerusalem (the fig tree) back in the hands of the Jews + 70 years for a generation (Psalms 90:10) = 2037, not later than.
So if we subtract 7 years, not later than 2030, the 70th week will start. It will start right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39.
Jesus has not returned because when He returns in Revelation 19 at the end of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel, everyone alive that day will know it. On the day that Jesus returns, the beast-king (the Antichrist person) and the false prophet, both standing on the temple mount that day, will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20
And the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king will be turned to ashes, exposing Satan to all present that day to behold him, i.e. see him in plain sight. He will be cast into the bottomless pit prison, Revelation 20:1-3.
And the armies that will have assembled at Armageddon will all be destroyed by Jesus, in Revelation 19:21.
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Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree generation to know when his return is near, and that generation will not pass away without seeing all of the end times events take place.
1967 Jerusalem (the fig tree) back in the hands of the Jews + 70 years for a generation (Psalms 90:10) = 2037, not later than.
So if we subtract 7 years, not later than 2030, the 70th week will start. It will start right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39.
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