Agreed, but the point is this...she told us after she got saved for real, that she was angry and felt like the pastors at the other church deceived her....she was going to a church that has many campuses, the weekly message is became in live on Satellite and it was a feel good message that said...Grace accepts you they way you are....and if Grace accepts you, Jesus accepts you and all your junk....now this at first pass is truth...as she become involved more in the church, she let them know of her lifestyle...they accepted her lifestyle, she became a puppet for a saved lesbian, that Jesus was passively changing and if he accepts her and her lifestyle and her sexual preference, we should to. As the months went on her depravity got worse, she would share with her small group and they just petted her, they said hey, Jesus saved you, no real change is needed on your part...we do not judge you or what you did.... Grace is a change agent...let it have its perfect work...not one person told her change was needed, that she was saved and grace would take her to heaven....no mandate to pray, study the word, read the word...just small group chit chat and 1 service a week....and a yearly bible reading plan...and a devotion app...
Sadly, it was religion that got her attention...she was out shopping and got mobbed by some religious bigots...that told her she would go to hell for being a lesbian....she confronted her campus pastor who deferred to the small group leader who told her...no...those people do not understand grace, they are fruit inspectors, God saved you...but they said having sex with women was a sin...grace covers that sin...and your church family loves you and so does Jesus...but is sleeping with women a sin....no reply...swept under the carpet.....she shrugged it off and continued down the path of deception...
She was convinced she was saved by people who perverted grace...that is the point...that was not her doing, that was another churches doing...When she discovered by the leading of the Holy Spirit that this was wrong...we were there to keep condemnation from attacking her....
We get more from that church and many of my pastors get them from other communities...this is an epidemic in the body....and it is formed because of over board and wrong teaching on legalism....
I must admit that i stopped going to church for a long while. I actually led a very successful youth ministry.
I won't go into the details why I left other than to say my shoulders were very heavy and I was weary. I carried baggage of life and the past and the baggage of the need to conform.
I never lost my faith in Jesus, just in myself and people. And for 13-14 years I cried out and cried every day to Jesus.
When I started to come back Church I googled Gods grace, and I stumbled upon E2R and I must admit it really helped me.
I e-mailed Paul Ellis and this man spent months talking to me.
One thing that really helped me was actually understanding what grace is and how it works.
One thing that struck me was that grace actually covers my sin and I don't have to pay back for my sin or work it off.
I could never accept that when I sinned then it is covered by the blood of Jesus. I was a sack cloth and ashes man (and still working through that)
So to me my sin and foibles were bigger than Gods grace. This stemmed from the fact that I honestly felt that God did not love me. He only loved me because he has to because of what Jesus did.
Then one day when I was laid up with a back issue God asked me to spend some time with him. After the 3rd time of asking I said yes.
I read the following and as I read it I had a picture in my mind.
A gun suddenly appeared and the barrel was open and a silver bullet was inserted and the barrel closed and the trigger pulled.
Here what was inscribed on this bullet.
John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
That bullet was shot right into my heart. GOD LOVES JESUS AS MUCH AS HE LOVES ME.
I broke down in tears and then I got a glimpse of Gods grace.
One thing I know though and as Paul says Gods grace is not an excuse sin.
To me Gods grace forgives our sin and it's his grace that says "I love where you are and I love enough to bring you out of where you are"
To me God loves to conform us to the image of Jesus.
The reason I have gone a bit deep here is because people can walk in a way that seems to betray their confession and faith in Jesus. Then we can judge them as not being really saved.
During My restoration a lot of healing was needed, emotionally and spiritually.
So if a person doesn't seem to changing (and we must be very careful here as to what change we expect to see) we need to come alongside them in love and compassion, with gentleness and wisdom, revealing the true word of God as correction.
If a person identifies as a sinner what are they going to do?
To me the mindset is to sin because that's their identity.
Now if a persons identity is that as a child of the Father who loves them so much and is for them then focus changes.
I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU AND WALK IN THE WAY YOU HAVE ASKED ME.
When someone wants that then the amazing grace of God that saved them will work.
Now if a person has no interest in this then one must question whether they actually have saving faith.