The absolute beauty of Salvation

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konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#1
There are so many things that are misunderstood about salvation. Jesus said, "He who believes has eternal life." John 6:47

Who are we to believe? Jesus, the one sent from God the Father. Having eternal life right now comes when I presently believe in Jesus, when He is the object of my faith. No more, no less. That's why right now I can be assured of having eternal life, because it's easy for me to know if I believe in Jesus, even a child can know that. Belief is not easy to come by, but it is easy to know if you have it.

But what more should I do? Eternal life is a present reality, but it's also something I grow in. That's why I should be baptized to identify with Jesus' death and resurrection, I should repent from my sins and live a life pleasing to God, I should go to a local fellowship of believers, I should give my money and time and talents to serve God's people and my neighbor. These things will express the reality of my salvation and set me apart (sanctify) for holiness. But I need not do any of these to have eternal life, I have that with simple belief, I do them so I will grow in my faith and realize the fullness of knowing Christ.
 
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in2it

Guest
#2
There are so many things that are misunderstood about salvation. Jesus said, "He who believes has eternal life." John 6:47

Who are we to believe? Jesus, the one sent from God the Father. Having eternal life right now comes when I presently believe in Jesus, when He is the object of my faith. No more, no less. That's why right now I can be assured of having eternal life, because it's easy for me to know if I believe in Jesus, even a child can know that. Belief is not easy to come by, but it is easy to know if you have it.

But what more should I do? Eternal life is a present reality, but it's also something I grow in. That's why I should be baptized to identify with Jesus' death and resurrection, I should repent from my sins and live a life pleasing to God, I should go to a local fellowship of believers, I should give my money and time and talents to serve God's people and my neighbor. These things will express the reality of my salvation and set me apart (sanctify) for holiness. But I need not do any of these to have eternal life, I have that with simple belief, I do them so I will grow in my faith and realize the fullness of knowing Christ.
I'm not trying to debate or start an argument but just want to state what was taught to me and how I understand what the Bible says about salvation.

Its so easy to take one sentence by itself and draw conclusions from it. There are many one liners that people attempt to use to try and prove doctrine.

First one must here the word, second comes belief, third comes repentance, fourth comes confession, fifth comes baptism.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17 KJV)

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Rom 10:14 KJV)

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. (Act 8:22 KJV)

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom 10:9 KJV)

Acts 2:38 1 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJG)

I am convinced that all five of these points must be met for salvation.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#3
Thank you for responding. I agree there are simple statements of Scripture that can be misused, and truth has to all fit together, but each piece of truth is individually true. He who believes has eternal life is a simple statement, but is it not true?

I agree that preaching and hearing has to precede believing, but repentance for forgiveness was after believing, especially in the Scripture you quoted, Acts 8:22, Simon Magus, had believed, but he was still enamored with money. I'm not saying that we shouldn't repent, in Acts we have people who repent before they believe, Cornelius in Acts 10, and people who repent after they believe, as in Acts 2:38. These were people who were repenting of the fact that they had killed Christ, they were "cut to the quick." Peter says they should bear the fruit of repentance, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit.

And the confession in Rom. 10 has two parts, one believes in one's heart for justification (salvation/eternal life) and confesses with one's mouth for salvation (sanctification). This confession in context is a public confession. When you believe in your heart your salvation is furthered when you confess it before men.

I don't think these verses deny the simple truth of John 6:47, belief for eternal life. John 6:47 doesn't say you must believe and repent and confess and be baptized for eternal life, it simply says believe. Should belief lead to all these things? Absolutely. But the simple one-line truth of John 6:47 is simply true.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#4
The real question is this, if you're sharing the message of the gospel with someone, do you tell them to repent of their sin, or do you tell them to believe in Jesus? If you tell them to repent of their sin, I think you're putting the cart before the horse.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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0
#5
I don't think these verses deny the simple truth of John 6:47, belief for eternal life. John 6:47 doesn't say you must believe and repent and confess and be baptized for eternal life, it simply says believe. Should belief lead to all these things? Absolutely. But the simple one-line truth of John 6:47 is simply true.
Do not isolate and proof text Bible verses apart from the harmonious whole of the Bible. It is factual to state that a car will drive if one fills the tank with petrol, yet such a truism is moot if the car has no wheels. Likewise it is true that those who believe have everlasting life but belief in context is an obedient abiding in the light and thus walking as Jesus walked.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Anyone claiming to know Jesus Christ and yet is still in rebellion to God (ie. they do which they know is wrong) is a liar.



Many people wish to disconnect repentance as being a condition of salvation. It is quite unfortunate that this is so but just goes to show how easily the human mind processes information in a biased manner in order to placate feelings and desires.

The Bible is very clear in regards to this issue.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Paul clearly wrote that godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation. He did not write salvation works repentance unto eternal life. Salvation is a state of being "freed from sin" not a state of being "freed in sin." A prisoner is not free whilst still locked in prison nor is a slave free who remains in service to his slave master. Jesus came to redeem us FROM our sins and not to redeem us in them. Many people err in their thinking and thus easily swallow a notion where they are redeemed in their sins thus setting them up to believe they are saved when they are not. If Satan can convince someone that are in fact saved when they are not then that individually is effectively immunised against the genuine salvation experience because they will not perceive what it is and will not seek it out via approaching God in the correct manner.


Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar_2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Luk_5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luk_15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act_11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Act_13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

The baptism of repentance and believing in Jesus go hand in hand. One cannot believe in Jesus (a saving belief) unless they repent and thus forsake their rebellion. This is why James taught that faith without works is dead and that the devils faith is belief without any outward transformation in conduct.

Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act_20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
I'm not trying to debate or start an argument but just want to state what was taught to me and how I understand what the Bible says about salvation.

Its so easy to take one sentence by itself and draw conclusions from it. There are many one liners that people attempt to use to try and prove doctrine.

First one must here the word, second comes belief, third comes repentance, fourth comes confession, fifth comes baptism.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17 KJV)

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Rom 10:14 KJV)

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. (Act 8:22 KJV)

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom 10:9 KJV)

Acts 2:38 1 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJG)

I am convinced that all five of these points must be met for salvation.

I agree with all points with the exception of 1. baptism.

Water baptism will never save anyone, Nor does it have a part in ones salvation. It is an outward act, which shows an inward faith. It is your faith which saved you. Long before the act of baptism comes into play.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
There are so many things that are misunderstood about salvation. Jesus said, "He who believes has eternal life." John 6:47

Who are we to believe? Jesus, the one sent from God the Father. Having eternal life right now comes when I presently believe in Jesus, when He is the object of my faith. No more, no less. That's why right now I can be assured of having eternal life, because it's easy for me to know if I believe in Jesus, even a child can know that. Belief is not easy to come by, but it is easy to know if you have it.

But what more should I do? Eternal life is a present reality, but it's also something I grow in. That's why I should be baptized to identify with Jesus' death and resurrection, I should repent from my sins and live a life pleasing to God, I should go to a local fellowship of believers, I should give my money and time and talents to serve God's people and my neighbor. These things will express the reality of my salvation and set me apart (sanctify) for holiness. But I need not do any of these to have eternal life, I have that with simple belief, I do them so I will grow in my faith and realize the fullness of knowing Christ.

very well put my friend. The simplicity of the gospel. which is so hard for people to understand.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
The real question is this, if you're sharing the message of the gospel with someone, do you tell them to repent of their sin, or do you tell them to believe in Jesus? If you tell them to repent of their sin, I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

I think James lets us know mere belief is not enough. True faith is involved. People can believe, yet not be saved. So then I would ask. Where does this faith come from? Is repentance (not of sin, but of our situation) involved?


I hope this makes sense.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#9
I believe repentance from sins leads to harmony with God. All men everywhere should repent and turn from their sins to the living God. Some people do this before they believe in Jesus, some do it when they believe, and some do it after they believe. All should do it, and it should be the daily process of every believer in Jesus. But while repentance and belief some would say are 2 sides to the same coin, they are 2 very different sides. He who believes has eternal life is like saying 1=1. Saying that he who believes and repents has eternal life is like saying 1+1=1. If you accuse me of prooftexting then we have a problem in discussing truth claims. Each piece of truth is true, but it is not the whole truth. The whole Bible is the whole truth but if I say "God is love" is this not true? How about just "God is?" In the same way, it is true to simply say, "He who believes has eternal life."

The perspective of salvation as an initial act is that "he who believes has eternal life." The perspective of salvation as an ongoing process is "faith without works is dead." James 2 doesn't negate the initial act of justification-salvation by encouraging believers to do good works to grow, mature, enhance, enliven and justify their faith. People can believe, and not be growing their faith (sanctification-salvation). Whenever someone comes to Jesus He never says, "Are you sure you have faith?" That's a ridiculous question. You have faith or you don't. What He does say is, "O ye of little faith." The disciples had faith that Jesus could cast out demons and heal the sick, but they were afraid of a stormy sea? Their faith needed to grow, I confess that mine needs to grow too.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#10
I believe repentance from sins leads to harmony with God. All men everywhere should repent and turn from their sins to the living God. Some people do this before they believe in Jesus, some do it when they believe, and some do it after they believe. All should do it, and it should be the daily process of every believer in Jesus. But while repentance and belief some would say are 2 sides to the same coin, they are 2 very different sides. He who believes has eternal life is like saying 1=1. Saying that he who believes and repents has eternal life is like saying 1+1=1. If you accuse me of prooftexting then we have a problem in discussing truth claims. Each piece of truth is true, but it is not the whole truth. The whole Bible is the whole truth but if I say "God is love" is this not true? How about just "God is?" In the same way, it is true to simply say, "He who believes has eternal life."

The perspective of salvation as an initial act is that "he who believes has eternal life." The perspective of salvation as an ongoing process is "faith without works is dead." James 2 doesn't negate the initial act of justification-salvation by encouraging believers to do good works to grow, mature, enhance, enliven and justify their faith. People can believe, and not be growing their faith (sanctification-salvation). Whenever someone comes to Jesus He never says, "Are you sure you have faith?" That's a ridiculous question. You have faith or you don't. What He does say is, "O ye of little faith." The disciples had faith that Jesus could cast out demons and heal the sick, but they were afraid of a stormy sea? Their faith needed to grow, I confess that mine needs to grow too.
Faith that needs to grow is not the equivalent of rebellion to God.

You did state...

But what more should I do? Eternal life is a present reality, but it's also something I grow in. That's why I should be baptized to identify with Jesus' death and resurrection, I should repent from my sins and live a life pleasing to God, I should go to a local fellowship of believers, I should give my money and time and talents to serve God's people and my neighbor. These things will express the reality of my salvation and set me apart (sanctify) for holiness. But I need not do any of these to have eternal life, I have that with simple belief, I do them so I will grow in my faith and realize the fullness of knowing Christ.
To claim that you "need not repent to have eternal life" is simply wrong. To claim that you "need not repent to have eternal life" is the complete opposite of what Jesus Himself taught. You are isolating and proof texting select verses in order to uphold that repentance is not mandatory. That is a clear abuse and misuse of the Scripture and we are warned not to do that.

Repentance literally means "change of mind" which is why there are statements in the Bible that connect "repentance" with "works worthy of repentance." Authentic repentance necessitates a change in action. True belief is only possible through the repentance experience. It is impossible to believe and not have experienced a genuine repentance.

Salvation is wrought via the power of God bringing an inward transformation to the heart and this can only occur if the individual being saved is no longer resisting God. God does not transform an unwilling heart. The implanted word must be received which is why we are called to lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness.

The cessation of rebellion and receiving Jesus Christ are connected. They cannot be separated. To separate them and teach that one comes first and then the other follows sometime later on is to imply that abiding in Christ has nothing to do with the heart but is rather merely mental assent.

Salvation without heart transformation is not salvation at all but is merely rhetoric and great swelling words of emptiness.

When Jesus opened His ministry with the call to repentance He did it for a reason.

Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
18
#11
When GOD said whosoever believe in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life; it doesn't mean you just believe in HIM and that's it. Because the bible said even the devils believe. But Christ showed if you believe in HIM you must take up your cross and follow HIM.

James 5:19
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[f] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Sin separates us from GOD. If you are in error repent and turn back to GOD. Even if you dont believe you need to; what kind of heart will offend GOD and not want to say he or she is sorry. Because like it or not, sin offends GOD. For He is a righteous and holy GOD.
 
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greatblue

Guest
#12
As simple as the eleventh hour. But, salvation starts with recognizing sin. You cannot be saved from something you aren't condemned by in your own heart. You cannot be condemned in your heart unless God calls you to that awareness/understanding. We can assume, from his treatment of Jesus on the cross, that the thief of Luke 23:39 did not view himself as a sinner being justly dealt with on the cross. In fact we have him blaspheming Jesus, G987 blasphēmeō, "Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

John the Baptist and Jesus both started their ministries preaching "Repent!" This call is crucial; it is only the sinners who can even hear and answer the call to repent.

John Luke 23:40-43, "But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The "saved" thief 1) recognizes his "condemnation", 2) admits his sinful "deeds", and 3) professes a belief in Christ's power and His kingdom. Something so complex, so limitless all happens in the simplicity of that moment...amazing grace!
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#13
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Salvation is wrought via the power of God bringing an inward transformation to the heart and this can only occur if the individual being saved is no longer resisting God. God does not transform an unwilling heart. The implanted word must be received which is why we are called to lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness.
Very much agree here, but it's interesting that this passage from James 1 is written to people who were believers. We as believers should receive the word, lay aside filthiness, and be doers of the word and save our souls in the present time. We save our souls as Christians by growing our faith, being holy, controlling our tongue, being quick to hear and slow to speak and to anger.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#14
True belief is only possible through the repentance experience. It is impossible to believe and not have experienced a genuine repentance.

While I don't disagree that repentance is important and that Jesus preached repentance for the kingdom of God, I do disagree that repentance and belief are the same thing. Do you realize that the gospel of John, whose stated purpose is so that people will believe and have eternal life (20:31) never once uses the word metanoia, or repentance? But the word for faith and belief occurs many times. We have examples in Scripture of people who believed but still had unrepentant lives, Acts 5, Ananias and Saphira, Acts 8, Simon Magus, the entire Corinthian church had many sins they needed to repent of.

You speak of belief coming out of repentance, but isn't it the other way around? One doesn't believe because they repent, one repents because one believes. The thief on the cross recognized his own sin and need for a Savior and he believed, he may have felt sorrow for his sins, but repentance isn't just feeling sorry for one's sins, it's turning from those sins and showing the fruit of right actions.

When I witness to the homeless man on the street, I don't tell him that he needs to stop abusing alcohol, stop stealing, and clean himself up for Jesus to accept him, I tell him that He needs a Savior and to believe in Jesus for eternal life. I don't tell him to take a shower so he can get ready for the cleansing bath of the Holy Spirit that comes when he believes. Isn't it amazing how powerful the message of the gospel is? God stands ready to give me everything I need when I trust in Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
When GOD said whosoever believe in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life; it doesn't mean you just believe in HIM and that's it. Because the bible said even the devils believe. But Christ showed if you believe in HIM you must take up your cross and follow HIM.

James 5:19
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[f] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Sin separates us from GOD. If you are in error repent and turn back to GOD. Even if you dont believe you need to; what kind of heart will offend GOD and not want to say he or she is sorry. Because like it or not, sin offends GOD. For He is a righteous and holy GOD.
your right, he is righteous and holy. Thus even the most mature of all believers should realise he is not even close to living his life in a way which would be perfect and deserving of Gods forgiveness and love. Even on our best days, we are deserving of Gods eternal punishment.

It is people who realise this who grown in christ. not those continually trying to not sin, or repent of every little sin they think they commit.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#16
We can focus on our sin, or we can focus on our Savior. I find that my Sanctification is increased by focusing on what Christ did. When I am learning new patterns of Christ's teaching and living, I can focus on living righteously and not on the ways I sin. But even then I must take heed, for when I have a good day and feel I can't be tempted, that's when Satan and my flesh sneak in on me.