The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
I would give you the History of it but why waste my time?

You think 70 AD was the grand slam event!

I have given answers that have been thoroughly proven and when you toss in a Newton quote that took place 1600 years later, I understand what I am dealing with!
70 AD was an anitclimatic event, the grand slam was the resurrection of Jesus and the dead in Christ... all the rest is pretty much meaningless to the beliver.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
You know it's the side with the poorer argument that resorts to name calling and insults first right? Psychology 101. Was just kind of surprised reading through this then all of a sudden BAM!!!, this just stood out as very weak to me. I thought you were making a good case, and making it well until this. Not how you should speak to a brother or represent our King who says the world will know us by our love for each other. This is my opinion admittedly, just thought it might actually help. Honestly though chill with that, it really does take from the real case you had made to this point.


Ahhhhhh, reverse psychology you're trying to pull. Only someone whose views are incorrect to begin with would use reverse psychology. That has been a known fact since Freud was examining the mental responses at the turn of the late 1800's. Typically, reverse psychology is used during questioning potential perps related to criminal activity. No, the name calling is justified from the misuse of Scripture.

Just like he stated Christ said, some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.
^
He takes this as physical, when the specific word Christ uses indicates SPIRITUAL!
And we know Paul said the moment we Physically Die, we are in Spirit Immediately with Christ.
But the physical body still remains in the ground/wherever.

When you are dealing first with a False Doctrine topped with not understanding the Scripture Meaning, anyone discussing with that person is wasting their time. Thus, the STUPID is REAL!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
Wow went into full blow insult mode, then run and hide mode? Why are we so fragile that we can't hear opinions that are not our own without falling to pieces to the point we "JUST CAN'T DISCUSS THIS!!!!!!!!!!" and run away from it. Biker your meltdown at the end here is honestly embarrassing man. This is how you behave to your fellow human being, never mind a brother? This is what our King calls us to do?


Ahhhhhh, reverse psychology you're trying to pull. Only someone whose views are incorrect to begin with would use reverse psychology. That has been a known fact since Freud was examining the mental responses at the turn of the late 1800's. Typically, reverse psychology is used during questioning potential perps related to criminal activity. No, the name calling is justified from the misuse of Scripture.

Just like he stated Christ said, some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.
^
He takes this as physical, when the specific word Christ uses indicates SPIRITUAL!
And we know Paul said the moment we Physically Die, we are in Spirit Immediately with Christ.
But the physical body still remains in the ground/wherever.

When you are dealing first with a False Doctrine topped with not understanding the Scripture Meaning, anyone discussing with that person is wasting their time. Thus, the STUPID is REAL!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
Any neutral arbitrator can take these passages only one way. Christ returned and someone standing there saw it. To any futurist, please give the class your interpretation of these passages and how they apply to a period thousands of years into the future. Let the twisting and gymnastics begin...

Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 9:27
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”



I will help you out here but I doubt it registers!

Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς, Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες ὧδε τῶν ἑστηκότων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐληλυθυῖαν ἐν δυνάμει.

What we are looking at specifically here is:
άγιος θάνατος
Which means = holy death

This indicates Christ is discussing in Spiritual terms, not physical.

He is saying, some of you will be Believers and not experience Spiritual Death!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
How about these:

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Are we still under the Law or are we under Grace? When the temple fell, the Law fell with it. Thus - All is fulfilled.

And LOOK at this Reasoning here!
You're claiming the Death of Christ that ASSURES us GRACE is not SUFFICIENT because it literally took a PHYSICAL BUILDING to fall for us to achieve GRACE!

You are BRAINWASHED!

STOP quoting ME!


Let's simply Agree to Disagree, Plainword!
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
840
138
43
Then I shall avoid you because you follow the traditions of man and ignore the clear teachings of Christ and His disciples. No matter what you futurists do, you cannot explain these 3 eyewitness accounts of what Christ taught. Instead, you and biker take the word of a 3rd hand witness who wasn't there and was born 60 years after the event recalling a conversation he had 35 years earlier with someone who talked to someone.

Matthew 16:28
Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”


Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”


Luke 9:27
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”


I actually had a futurist try to tell me that there are a couple of dudes 2,000 years old sequestered somewhere that God kept alive, to make this passage come true.
All the verses you presented were pre Calvary and pre shed blood of redemption.

Those standing present with Jesus Christ were translated into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ by his shed blood on calvary as clearly seen below.

Colossians 1:13-14KJV
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
I will help you out here but I doubt it registers!

Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς, Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες ὧδε τῶν ἑστηκότων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐληλυθυῖαν ἐν δυνάμει.

What we are looking at specifically here is:
άγιος θάνατος
Which means = holy death

This indicates Christ is discussing in Spiritual terms, not physical.

He is saying, some of you will be Believers and not experience Spiritual Death!
Spiritual death???? Never seen that in the bible in my life. Our spirit is eternal, it either goes to everlasting life with the Lord, or to shame and everlasting contempt.

Seriously though, how do you get spiritual death out of "holy death"?
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
Spiritual death???? Never seen that in the bible in my life. Our spirit is eternal, it either goes to everlasting life with the Lord, or to shame and everlasting contempt.

Seriously though, how do you get spiritual death out of "holy death"?


By the way the Greeks use that phrase in other verses throughout the Bible.

There is only 2 possibilities for us in this life after we die.
Heaven
Hell

Anything away from God is to spiritually be void, which if there is no more God for you, you are DEAD in every way possible!
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
By the way the Greeks use that phrase in other verses throughout the Bible.

There is only 2 possibilities for us in this life after we die.
Heaven
Hell

Anything away from God is to spiritually be void, which if there is no more God for you, you are DEAD in every way possible!
Sounds like a crock to me. :)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,823
128
63
All the verses you presented were pre Calvary and pre shed blood of redemption.

Those standing present with Jesus Christ were translated into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ by his shed blood on calvary as clearly seen below.

Colossians 1:13-14KJV
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Clever argument but you forgot one thing. "They saw the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Besides, if they were translated into the kingdom, wouldn't that be the new kingdom as in the "new heaven and earth" since the new kingdom was to replace the old.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,823
128
63
Sounds like a crock to me. :)
Like I said, "let the twisting and gymnastics begin." They take everything literal when it comes to Flying Scorpions with women's hair and the like but when it comes to clear and concise language which even a child can understand, they invent the most outlandish spiritual arguments if the passage doesn't fit their world view.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
840
138
43
Do you believe on Judgement Day people will be forced into the Lake of Fire?
These (Full Preterist) dont believe in any "Future Events"

The Second coming, resurrection, final judgement, New Heaven and Earth

100% Heresy!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
These (Full Preterist) dont believe in any "Future Events"

The Second coming, resurrection, final judgement, New Heaven and Earth

100% Heresy!


Must be tough trying to ignore about 1/3 of what the Bible has to offer in order to keep your disbeliefs alive.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
Do you believe on Judgement Day people will be forced into the Lake of Fire?
People are dying right now and facing Judgement Day upon death and going to hell.

I'll be honest, since I just discovered that the Devil is our own DNA, I'm not sure what the lake of fire is. BUT I do believe it has something to do with the death of this earthly body.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
Must be tough trying to ignore about 1/3 of what the Bible has to offer in order to keep your disbeliefs alive.
Or it could be that you guys are missing EVERYTHING Jesus came and died for, awaiting a physical kingdom on earth that Jesus NEVER SAID would come.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
840
138
43
Like I said, "let the twisting and gymnastics begin." They take everything literal when it comes to Flying Scorpions with women's hair and the like but when it comes to clear and concise language which even a child can understand, they invent the most outlandish spiritual arguments if the passage doesn't fit their world view.
Your the one who denies the clear and concise scripture below :)

"They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

No place in the historical record has it been written, that anybody literally saw Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven.

Its you who invents outlandish symbolism to explain this "Future" literal event, in the coming of Jesus Christ.

The passage below destroy's the false preterist teaching that this was fulfilled in 67-70AD

Your mirror is Pot, Kettle, Black :)

Let "Your" twisting and gymnastics begin.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
People are dying right now and facing Judgement Day upon death and going to hell.

I'll be honest, since I just discovered that the Devil is our own DNA, I'm not sure what the lake of fire is. BUT I do believe it has something to do with the death of this earthly body.


I agree and there is much truth in what you say. Nevertheless, your own kjv Bible makes this claim. It even claims Believers, who thought they were Believers and tell God I did this and that will be met by Christ telling them, I NEVER knew you, depart from ME!

So, you can't have 1 without the other here.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,430
971
113
Your the one who denies the clear and concise scripture below :)

"They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"

No place in the historical record has it been written, that anybody literally saw Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven.

Its you who invents outlandish symbolism to explain this "Future" literal event in the coming of Jesus Christ, because the passage destroy's the false preterist teaching that this was fulfilled in 67-70AD

Your mirror is Pot, Kettle, Black :)

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

You're not going to get any clearer evidence than Matthew 24:29-30, that the SECOND COMING of Christ WAS the resurrection. That is the only event where that verse will fit.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
445
83
Or it could be that you guys are missing EVERYTHING Jesus came and died for, awaiting a physical kingdom on earth that Jesus NEVER SAID would come.


I am awaiting Heaven and Heaven only. If there is a physical kingdom, I will relish in the moment being with Christ. It does not matter to me as long as I end up with Him for Eternity!