The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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Right and John Calvin also drowned people in the sea for disagreeing with him. This isn't really a conversation. Based on the topic, this is a conversation based on what the community here, what the majority of the community here believes, and it seems like every time it's about tulip or it's about grace, it's about specific dogmas, and I'm not a presbyterian, okay, I. Don't believe in a lot of this nonsense. So obviously I'm not gonna fit in with this community. I'll look elsewhere.
So the question is, the atonement? What did it really accomplish? What does that mean? Google says Prepare Yourself Spiritually. The Atonement is the sacrifice Jesus Christ made to help us overcome sin, adversity, and death. So apparently Christ atonement is a call to purity, a call to holiness and a call to prepare ourselves spiritually. And all those things require a response.
That wasn't specified in the topic. Just as john says if you say your a child of light but walk in darkness then your a liar. So our response to how god is working in our life is just as important. Jesus says if you love me then do what I tell you. He didn't say if your the chosen elect then enjoy the ride. Repentance, loving your enemies, and denying ourselves, are all proper responses for gods grace working in our life. Without our cooperation our faith is useless.
That wasn't specified in the topic. Just as john says if you say your a child of light but walk in darkness then your a liar. So our response to how god is working in our life is just as important. Jesus says if you love me then do what I tell you. He didn't say if your the chosen elect then enjoy the ride. Repentance, loving your enemies, and denying ourselves, are all proper responses for gods grace working in our life. Without our cooperation our faith is useless.
I would place John Calvin and most of the reformers in that camp. They say their children of light but the protistants first council couldn't agree on the faith. They split in like five different camps. They burned each other at the stake and went to war. And still division is growing. Are they children of light? If so then why do they walk in darkness? Why is there so much division? Does this display the fruit of the holy spirit? So far it would seem to me the tulip and hyper grace is rotten fruit.
And this is the fruit of John Calvin and the reformers everyone.This is the fruit that they offer. To cut people off and kill them because they have a disagreement about a theology that's not even essential to their salvation and relationship with God.Yeah , you're right , we are done. I won't be back to this site
Sanctified by the Will of God
Many today in mans religion are willfully unaware of this Gospel fact, that those sinners Christ died for, are by His Death, and by the Will of God, Sanctified once for all.
Heb 10:5-10
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The word sanctified here is the greek word
hagiazó and means:
I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify
– to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).
The word is also in the perfect tense which means:
The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.
This is the case for every sinner Christ died for. And this is not the case for all sinners without exception. 57
Many today in mans religion are willfully unaware of this Gospel fact, that those sinners Christ died for, are by His Death, and by the Will of God, Sanctified once for all.
Heb 10:5-10
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 in burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The word sanctified here is the greek word
hagiazó and means:
I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify
– to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).
The word is also in the perfect tense which means:
The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.
This is the case for every sinner Christ died for. And this is not the case for all sinners without exception. 57
sigh ... brightfame52, we've gone over this verse numerous times.
The words "for to give" are translated from the Greek word didōmi ...
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon (bold mine):
now read Acts 5:31 and 5:32 together:
Acts 5:31-32 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
another instance of brightfame52 ripping a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.
Acts 11 describes the discussion when the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God (Acts 11:1).
Peter told the apostles and brethren what had occurred when he was in Joppa Acts 10:1-48) ... how God reached out to Peter to have him go to the house of Cornelius, a gentile.
Peter told them as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:15-16).
At that point, the apostles and brethren said:
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The word "granted" is translated from the Greek word didōmi ... the same word translated as "for to give" in Acts 5:31.
The comment in Acts 11:18 was made by the apostles and brethren when they realized that gentiles had been born again of Holy Spirit.
Peter brought certain brethren from Joppa with him when he went to the house of Cornelius (Acts 10:23). Peter and the brethren heard Cornelius and the gentiles present speak with tongues and magnify God (Acts 10:46). When Peter told the apostles and brethren understood that repentance unto life was granted to gentiles as well as Jews.
2 Peter 1:1-4 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
The moment a person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he or she is regenerated ... born again ... passed from death to life ... and is made complete in Christ.
Nothing is lacking in the born again one ... all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of Him ... exceeding great and precious promises are given that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature ... this is the like precious faith spoken of by Peter.
your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma has again failed. you are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
The words "for to give" are translated from the Greek word didōmi ...
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon (bold mine):
6. δίδωμι is joined with nouns denoting an act or an effect; and...b. the noun denotes something to be done by him to whom it is said to be given: διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31 ...
now read Acts 5:31 and 5:32 together:
Acts 5:31-32 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
another instance of brightfame52 ripping a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.
Acts 11 describes the discussion when the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God (Acts 11:1).
Peter told the apostles and brethren what had occurred when he was in Joppa Acts 10:1-48) ... how God reached out to Peter to have him go to the house of Cornelius, a gentile.
Peter told them as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost (Acts 11:15-16).
At that point, the apostles and brethren said:
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
The word "granted" is translated from the Greek word didōmi ... the same word translated as "for to give" in Acts 5:31.
The comment in Acts 11:18 was made by the apostles and brethren when they realized that gentiles had been born again of Holy Spirit.
Peter brought certain brethren from Joppa with him when he went to the house of Cornelius (Acts 10:23). Peter and the brethren heard Cornelius and the gentiles present speak with tongues and magnify God (Acts 10:46). When Peter told the apostles and brethren understood that repentance unto life was granted to gentiles as well as Jews.
2 Peter 1:1-4 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
The moment a person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he or she is regenerated ... born again ... passed from death to life ... and is made complete in Christ.
Nothing is lacking in the born again one ... all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of Him ... exceeding great and precious promises are given that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature ... this is the like precious faith spoken of by Peter.
your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma has again failed. you are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The Lord Jesus Christ taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2).
You have a problem with that? ... take it up with God Who is the Author of Scripture. Ask God for wisdom in understanding what He has written ... you must ask in faith, though ...
James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
read John 8:24 again, brightfame52 ... and especially the words "if ye believe not":
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
If a person does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ... Who is the lamb Who takes away the sin of the world ... that person will die in his or her sins ...
... not because the death of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to take away their sin, but because they rejected Him as their Lord and Savior.
The consequence of failing to believe is to receive the wages of sin which is death.
in order to comprehend what is written in verse 28, you need to include (at the very least) verse 27, brightfame52:
Matthew 26:27-28 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
If a person does not drink of it, he or she does not receive the benefit of the shed blood.
The verses do not state that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to cover all the sins of all mankind.
The verses state that if we do not drink, we do not receive the benefit of the all sufficient offering for sin.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Again, those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will not enjoy the new Jerusalem:
Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
God has provided to all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... all that is needed to enjoy the new Jerusalem which He has promised to those who believe.
That some descendants of Adam reject that which God has provided does not in any way, shape, or form cause God's provision to be insufficient ... nor does it make "His Blood a Lie, His death a lie !"
Scripture exposes your erroneous dogma as being "a Lie"
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The Lord Jesus Christ taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2).
You have a problem with that? ... take it up with God Who is the Author of Scripture. Ask God for wisdom in understanding what He has written ... you must ask in faith, though ...
James 1:5-8 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
read John 8:24 again, brightfame52 ... and especially the words "if ye believe not":
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
If a person does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ... Who is the lamb Who takes away the sin of the world ... that person will die in his or her sins ...
... not because the death of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to take away their sin, but because they rejected Him as their Lord and Savior.
The consequence of failing to believe is to receive the wages of sin which is death.
in order to comprehend what is written in verse 28, you need to include (at the very least) verse 27, brightfame52:
Matthew 26:27-28 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
If a person does not drink of it, he or she does not receive the benefit of the shed blood.
The verses do not state that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to cover all the sins of all mankind.
The verses state that if we do not drink, we do not receive the benefit of the all sufficient offering for sin.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Again, those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will not enjoy the new Jerusalem:
Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
God has provided to all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... all that is needed to enjoy the new Jerusalem which He has promised to those who believe.
That some descendants of Adam reject that which God has provided does not in any way, shape, or form cause God's provision to be insufficient ... nor does it make "His Blood a Lie, His death a lie !"
Scripture exposes your erroneous dogma as being "a Lie"
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
... again you rip a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it ...Galatians 3:
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
the blessing of Abraham ... the promise of the Spirit ... is received the moment a person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.
your erroneous dogma again fails when scrutinized under the full light of Scripture ...
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again ... ripping a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it is not proper interpretation of Scripture.
The Thessalonians believers had become followers of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thes 1:6) ... they were examples to the believers in Macedonia and Achaia (1 Thes 1:7) ... the Word of God had sounded out ... faith to God-ward had sounded out from Thessalonika (1 Thes 1:8) ...
now read verses 9 and 10 together:
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
the words "and to wait" are translated from the Greek word anamenō which means (according to Vines Expository Dictionary) "to wait for" (ana, "up," used intensively, and meno, "to abide"), is used in 1Th 1:10, of "waiting" for the Son of God from heaven; the word carries with it the suggestion of "waiting" with patience and confident expectancy.
go back and read the whole chapter, brightfame52 ... then you will understand that verse 30 relates to those who ...
Job 21:14-15 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
Those who reject God are the ones who shall be brought forth to the day of wrath (Job 21:30).
And please note, Job was responding to those who had come to him in his tragic time and who accused Job of some secret sin Job was hiding. Job was enduring the onslaught of the accuser (satan). His miserable comforters believed Job was being punished by God for some sin he had not repented of. However, Job clung to God and was able to claim:
Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
has your eye seen God, brightfame52? have you repented in dust and ashes?
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The Thessalonians believers had become followers of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thes 1:6) ... they were examples to the believers in Macedonia and Achaia (1 Thes 1:7) ... the Word of God had sounded out ... faith to God-ward had sounded out from Thessalonika (1 Thes 1:8) ...
now read verses 9 and 10 together:
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
the words "and to wait" are translated from the Greek word anamenō which means (according to Vines Expository Dictionary) "to wait for" (ana, "up," used intensively, and meno, "to abide"), is used in 1Th 1:10, of "waiting" for the Son of God from heaven; the word carries with it the suggestion of "waiting" with patience and confident expectancy.
go back and read the whole chapter, brightfame52 ... then you will understand that verse 30 relates to those who ...
Job 21:14-15 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
Those who reject God are the ones who shall be brought forth to the day of wrath (Job 21:30).
And please note, Job was responding to those who had come to him in his tragic time and who accused Job of some secret sin Job was hiding. Job was enduring the onslaught of the accuser (satan). His miserable comforters believed Job was being punished by God for some sin he had not repented of. However, Job clung to God and was able to claim:
Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
has your eye seen God, brightfame52? have you repented in dust and ashes?
.
Hebrews 9:
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The words "and to them that look" are translated from the Greek word apekdechomai which pictures waiting in great anticipation but with patience. Awaiting eagerly and expectantly for some future event and so to look forward eagerly.
What is alluded to in these verses beginning in Hebrews 9:23 is the Day of Atonement when the high priest would enter into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacrifice. The holy of holies was out of the sight of the people. The people would eagerly await the reappearance of the high priest and they rejoiced at his reappearance because they knew God had accepted their offering and their sins were covered.
At this point in time, our great High Priest is seated in the heavenly Holy of Holies and we eagerly await His return because at that point all God's promises concerning salvation will be fully realized!
Are you eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, brightfame52? He will return the second time ... not to deal with sin ... He will come with the salvation promised throughout all of Scripture. Search out, find, and believe those precious promises laid out in Scripture ... such a great blessing!!!
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26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The words "and to them that look" are translated from the Greek word apekdechomai which pictures waiting in great anticipation but with patience. Awaiting eagerly and expectantly for some future event and so to look forward eagerly.
What is alluded to in these verses beginning in Hebrews 9:23 is the Day of Atonement when the high priest would enter into the holy of holies with the blood of the sacrifice. The holy of holies was out of the sight of the people. The people would eagerly await the reappearance of the high priest and they rejoiced at his reappearance because they knew God had accepted their offering and their sins were covered.
At this point in time, our great High Priest is seated in the heavenly Holy of Holies and we eagerly await His return because at that point all God's promises concerning salvation will be fully realized!
Are you eagerly awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, brightfame52? He will return the second time ... not to deal with sin ... He will come with the salvation promised throughout all of Scripture. Search out, find, and believe those precious promises laid out in Scripture ... such a great blessing!!!
.
No you're not.
If you were talking exclusively about "what Christ has done", you would not include your qualifiers ... i.e. "everyone Christ lived and died for" ... "those who Christ redeem" ... "those for whom He was delivered" ... "all for whom He died !" ... "all sinners He died for" ... "those Christ died for" ... "those of us He died for" ... "Christ for them He died" ... "for them He saved" ...
Those are qualifiers quoted from your [brightfame52] posts submitted on page 130 in this thread. If you go all the way back to page 1, you will find that just about every single post you have submitted in this thread contains your "qualifiers".
So no, brightfame52, you are not speaking solely "about what Christ has done".
You are speaking about your own dogma ... which is why you rip verses from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed the verses and you then re-write Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma ... which is improper interpretation of Scripture.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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If you were talking exclusively about "what Christ has done", you would not include your qualifiers ... i.e. "everyone Christ lived and died for" ... "those who Christ redeem" ... "those for whom He was delivered" ... "all for whom He died !" ... "all sinners He died for" ... "those Christ died for" ... "those of us He died for" ... "Christ for them He died" ... "for them He saved" ...
Those are qualifiers quoted from your [brightfame52] posts submitted on page 130 in this thread. If you go all the way back to page 1, you will find that just about every single post you have submitted in this thread contains your "qualifiers".
So no, brightfame52, you are not speaking solely "about what Christ has done".
You are speaking about your own dogma ... which is why you rip verses from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed the verses and you then re-write Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma ... which is improper interpretation of Scripture.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.
Hebrews 10:
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me, ) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
please note the words He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second (vs 9).
The words "the first " refer to the old covenant God entered into with the children of Israel ... which had a shadow of good things to come (Heb 10:1).
The words "the second " refer the new covenant in which those who believe are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once (Heb 10:10) ... and please note, the words "for all" do not appear in the text.
There is only one offering by which mankind is sanctified ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified [Greek = hagiazó] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
again, the words "for all" do not appear in the text.
Hagiazó in the perfect tense also speaks of what is often referred to as past tense salvation, a one time event, at which time the sinner is justified the moment they exercise faith in Christ. They will never need to be justified again. Their position in Christ is forever righteous and forever secure.
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5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me, ) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
please note the words He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second (vs 9).
The words "the first " refer to the old covenant God entered into with the children of Israel ... which had a shadow of good things to come (Heb 10:1).
The words "the second " refer the new covenant in which those who believe are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once (Heb 10:10) ... and please note, the words "for all" do not appear in the text.
There is only one offering by which mankind is sanctified ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified [Greek = hagiazó] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
again, the words "for all" do not appear in the text.
Hagiazó in the perfect tense also speaks of what is often referred to as past tense salvation, a one time event, at which time the sinner is justified the moment they exercise faith in Christ. They will never need to be justified again. Their position in Christ is forever righteous and forever secure.
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I appreciate the response and for you being understanding of the situation. It's been a long time since I've been on the site. And the thing is that if people are gonna expect open dialogue, then they need to stop trying to push their view and insist that people come into alignment with their perspective on things before a conversation can happen, or else you're really going to limit how many people are gonna be able to come here and have a discussion. I don't feel that I was met with an environment that wants to hear my view. Or is allowing me the space to share my view. So therefore, why would I stay and share my view? Especially sends so much shade and judgment. And rocks were thrown in my direction. For I feel everything I had to say was justified. You know, when people are just sitting around theorizing about the love of God but then they sit there and they judge everyone else that they don't feel in alignment with god's truth then you end up running into problems. So therefore, I'll revalidate my contribution to the conversation. If you're going to believe, then you must also respond to validate that belief. Or else it is a dead belief with followers of a dying faith. I don't believe that what I shared was off topic since the topic itself requires a response from the person receiving. Also the topic didn't specify that it couldn't include my relationship with the topic If they wanted it to be Christ focused then they should have said that from the beginning. But I really don't see how anything could be Christ focused if we're not included in it, otherwise again it's dead. Everything that Christ did is dead if you're not included in it.
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I enjoy open discussion. None of us knows all of God's Word and we can all learn from one another. All born again ones are members in particular in the body of Christ and each member is vital. 1 Cor 12 explains this truth very well. One of the verses in the section states That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another (1 Cor 12:25). This verse is right after a couple of verses that state one member can't say to another member "I have no need of you" (1 Cor 12:21).
we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
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we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
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I enjoy open discussion. None of us knows all of God's Word and we can all learn from one another. All born again ones are members in particular in the body of Christ and each member is vital. 1 Cor 12 explains this truth very well. One of the verses in the section states That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another (1 Cor 12:25). This verse is right after a couple of verses that state one member can't say to another member "I have no need of you" (1 Cor 12:21).
we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
.
we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
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He?e provided a way for us to become one with his divine nature. This is only possible through God's grace and our Cooperation With god's grace working in our life. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if you actually look into the root word, believe... believe requires a response. A lot of people don't realize that they think oh well, all I have to do is accept it and that's good enough, but that's not what the actual word for believe means. The original Greek word pisteuo means so much more than just believing and something. So therefore I don't believe it is possible to understand the atonement and what it has done and accomplished for us unless we understand first what it means to actually believe in christ.
I enjoy open discussion. None of us knows all of God's Word and we can all learn from one another. All born again ones are members in particular in the body of Christ and each member is vital. 1 Cor 12 explains this truth very well. One of the verses in the section states That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another (1 Cor 12:25). This verse is right after a couple of verses that state one member can't say to another member "I have no need of you" (1 Cor 12:21).
we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
.
we're all in various stages in our walk with the Lord. You know more than me in some areas ... I know more than you in other areas ... our discussion takes place from our keyboards rather than face-to-face (which adds a certain complexity in discussing).
we don't all know everything from Genesis to Revelation ... it's good to discuss Scripture without the name calling or insinuating that someone is not a believer when that someone states exactly what God's Word says concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.
are you referring to James 2?
James 2:
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I believe that everything Christ did was to the glory of God ... even if no one believed.
I'm thankful to God that He loved us enough to provide salvation ... that He continues to love us in spite of our foolishness ... that He will continue to love us in eternity when we are fully perfected and conformed to the image of His Son.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
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John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’
1 Corinthians 6:17: “But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”
John 6:56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
John 17:22-23: The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one. I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me, even as we are one.
2 Peter 1:3-4: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.”