The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[Nufan]

Does Christs Death alone take away the sins of them He died for ? Yes or No

1 John 1

Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[homwardbound]

Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

From the view I see from, there is a difference in Atonement and Taken Away. Atonement is what was done year after year according to the First Testament of the First Chosen. Which I see was to reveal to us all, no-one of flesh and blood can do it perfectly as is done by son, who was not born of man, woman yes, not man. (Hebrews 7:11-12)
Amazing grace is given us to respond to God and not necessarily between one another, since there are those sitting in Moses's seat, and might only get the rewards they are getting from the people and not be saved by God. Hoping differently, knowing the pride and arrogance of man flesh, before being born again by God to live new in God's spirit and Truth, reckoning self dead now to that first born flesh, being made new alive in the risen Christ given this from God who does just love us all


Atonement=
atonement

[ uh-tohn-muhnt ]
Phonetic (Standard)IPA
noun

1. satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury; amends.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) Theology. the doctrine concerning the reconciliation of God and humankind, especially as accomplished through the life, suffering, and death of Christ.
3. Christian Science. the experience of humankind's unity with God exemplified by Jesus Christ.
4. Archaic. reconciliation; agreement.

Then we have take away, if taken away, there is no more atonement correct


John 1:29

Authorized (King James) Version

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


Hebrews 10:10-12

Authorized (King James) Version

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


Ephesians 1:7

Authorized (King James) Version

7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

therefore, in Jesus' one time death only, willingly, is all sin forgiven to us all the people from God of Son? to accept this, believe this and ask to be born new from God and live new in the risen Jesus, thank you


Matthew 5:17

Authorized (King James) Version

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


John 19:30

Authorized (King James) Version

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Hebrews 9:14-17

Authorized (King James) Version

14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament isof force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Believe God, receive truth forms God and be new in God, thank you

 

[Nufan]

From the view I see from, there is a difference in Atonement and Taken Away. Atonement is what was done year after year according to the First Testament of the First Chosen. Which I see was to reveal to us all, no-one of flesh and blood can do it perfectly as is done by son, who was not born of man, woman yes, not man. (Hebrews 7:11-12)
Amazing grace is given us to respond to God and not necessarily between one another, since there are those sitting in Moses's seat, and might only get the rewards they are getting from the people and not be saved by God. Hoping differently, knowing the pride and arrogance of man flesh, before being born again by God to live new in God's spirit and Truth, reckoning self dead now to that first born flesh, being made new alive in the risen Christ given this from God who does just love us all


Atonement=
atonement

[ uh-tohn-muhnt ]
Phonetic (Standard)IPA
noun

1. satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury; amends.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) Theology. the doctrine concerning the reconciliation of God and humankind, especially as accomplished through the life, suffering, and death of Christ.
3. Christian Science. the experience of humankind's unity with God exemplified by Jesus Christ.
4. Archaic. reconciliation; agreement.

Then we have take away, if taken away, there is no more atonement correct


John 1:29

Authorized (King James) Version

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


Hebrews 10:10-12

Authorized (King James) Version

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


Ephesians 1:7

Authorized (King James) Version

7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

therefore, in Jesus' one time death only, willingly, is all sin forgiven to us all the people from God of Son? to accept this, believe this and ask to be born new from God and live new in the risen Jesus, thank you


Matthew 5:17

Authorized (King James) Version

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


John 19:30

Authorized (King James) Version

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Hebrews 9:14-17

Authorized (King James) Version

14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament isof force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Believe God, receive truth forms God and be new in God, thank you

Yes and sometimes it was eaven daily sacrifice needed.

 

[Nufan]

It's obviously a major error to think that you can live in sin And be saved. Not to say that we are without sin.But to repent and turn away from our sins daily and mean it from the heart is necessary. This is really the heart of the disagreement, is one forgiven regardless if they repent and turn away from their sin or is one required to still repent and turn away from their sin. Bright light. We have provided plenty of Bible references that validate what we are trying to communicate to you. Plus you have had plenty of people who have disputed this with you and offered correction. Choosing to not acknowledge wise counsel you're choosing to reject the truth and you're choosing to remain in your sin. It would have been much better for you to be ignorant and to keep your mouth shut, then for you to be informed and knowledgeable of the truth and choose to rebel and reject it. You aren't gonna stand before God and say, well no one ever revealed the truth. No one ever made that known to me. You, my friend are without excuse. It's really sad and unfortunate but i'm afraid you're gonna have to travel this path on your own. Don't forget that god's always there.

 

[Nufan]

I'd also like to clear up what I mean by living in your sins and salvation. I know that there is a lot of people on this site that believes in predestination and God's chosen elect and I'm not trying to argue these views are come against these views. They are not my views, but I still respect it. I've already wrote quite a bit on this particular topic. I believe that anyone who's going through the sanctification process is what's being referred to as the chosen elect. They are not just a believer that is following Jesus. They are one who is becoming a saint. If you are a saint, then you are the chosen elect. If you're a saint, then you are not gonna lose your saovation. It would be very difficult for that to happen very, very difficult, but also keep in mind that they are repenting of their sins daily. They are practicing mortification of the flesh, which is denying their pleasures, enjoyments,and comforts so that they can Make God their focus. They are dying to themselves daily.
They are denying themselves taking up their cross and following after christ. If this is not already part of your daily practice, if God is not your focus and everything, then his grace is not going to work because you're not cooperating with this grace, which means you're also not god's chosen elect and you are not guaranteed salvation. I also don't believe that you need to become a saint to be saved. And I also don't believe that only specific individuals have the opportunity to become a saint. I believe we all have an opportunity to become a saint and that God actually calls us all to be saints.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes and sometimes it was eaven daily sacrifice needed.

It was, had become that, a total debacle, that Father of Son Jesus was never satisfied in. as told in Hebrews 10. The sacrificing became a money maker. And still is one today, putting people under Law, guilt to get stuff.
How many preachers, know it is done and over, God took away all sin for all people to now enter in with thanksgiving and praise. To God personally?
Yet will not preach this truth, Why? If did, would there be a need for preachers, teachers? I mean if God its doing it in us and for us, who needs anyone else to be over them? Job security got Jesus on that cross, the the came here, knowing it would be that way, and yet make an open spectacle of them as when they saw him risen. Wow, woe is me.
And then in the end of Acts chapter 5, they were told by the leader to let those disciples go. If they were of God, then they would be fighting God and if not it will not last
Over 2,000 years now, what is up with that?
God is as real as the air I breathe and do not normally see
Evil hs tried to put it down ever since the resurrection, and all it has done is promote God in love to all in God's mercy and truth of Son

 

[Nufan]

It was, had become that, a total debacle, that Father of Son Jesus was never satisfied in. as told in Hebrews 10. The sacrificing became a money maker. And still is one today, putting people under Law, guilt to get stuff.
How many preachers, know it is done and over, God took away all sin for all people to now enter in with thanksgiving and praise. To God personally?
Yet will not preach this truth, Why? If did, would there be a need for preachers, teachers? I mean if God its doing it in us and for us, who needs anyone else to be over them? Job security got Jesus on that cross, the the came here, knowing it would be that way, and yet make an open spectacle of them as when they saw him risen. Wow, woe is me.
And then in the end of Acts chapter 5, they were told by the leader to let those disciples go. If they were of God, then they would be fighting God and if not it will not last
Over 2,000 years now, what is up with that?
God is as real as the air I breathe and do not normally see
Evil hs tried to put it down ever since the resurrection, and all it has done is promote God in love to all in God's mercy and truth of Son

I completely agree. The places that I encounter God that were the most powerful weren't at churches. They were in the most unusual places. The places that I thought I would never encounter God, and yet that is where god encountered me in the most powerful ways. I do believe that you do need community. There needs to be a body of believers your involved with. I find that a church that offers sacraments have been very helpful for me in my walk and have helped me to grow deeper into a relationship with god. I don't think becoming a hermit is necessarily the answer unless you have a special calling to devote yourself to prayer and fasting. We do wanna make sure we have some sort of support group available cause I believe that this is necessary and essential for us to be successful in our walk. But on the other hand I also don't believe that you're obligated to go to a church and to submit yourself to a pastor especially if you can't find one in your area that is helping you to grow. So as long as you submit yourself to a prayer rule. You're reading your scripture every day, you have fellowship and community, and you're practicing charity in some way. Volunteering and helping those in need would also be a good thing to inorporate into your practice. I'm sure you're already aware of this. But the Bible does instruct us to do these things. You're right, pastor's won't teach this. Because it's become a business, and it's not a good business model to tell your congregation that their salvation does not rely on them or their church.

 

[fredoheaven]

@Nufan



False comment, Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment

This is limiting God'provision of salvation for all and the same time conflating provision of a Saviour with appplication of salvation. Who can take away the sins of the world? Obviosly, Christ but the application of salvation are only those who will believe on him. The provision is for all but it is conditional.

 

[Nufan]

This is limiting God'provision of salvation for all and the same time conflating provision of a Saviour with appplication of salvation. Who can take away the sins of the world? Obviosly, Christ but the application of salvation are only those who will believe on him. The provision is for all but it is conditional.

This is a perfect response. Thanks for sharing I just hope that people are praying for him. Because I really believe that he's dealing with some serious sin. That he wants to be set free from but is finding it difficult to resist. And I believe that's why he has formed this view. I know, I struggled with this for quite a while. I struggled with sins that I wasn't able to overcome and I wasn't willing to accept the belief that I was saved. And it's because I didn't accept the belief that I was saved knowing that I desired and I enjoyed indulging in sin. That was something that I look forward to and would think about often. It wasn't until I got to the point to where I realized that there was no hope for me to be free that I knew I needed a savior. I fully surrender everything. Coming to the realization that only God could satisfy and give me what it is that I truly longed for and desire. Having god was of far greater value to me then the pleasures of the flesh. This was only possible through god's grace, but as I have said many times if we don't cooperate then god's grace is useless. You do go through a phase where you're kind of going back-and-forth. Your desire for God is growing stronger and your desire for earthly things is growing weaker. This is the dying or the death that takes place that is spoken of in the scriptures. Now I'm walking in obedience and I'm resisting these sinful things and I'm abstaining from the things that take my focus away from God. I developed a prayer rule. I'm involved with a community of believers. All these things were important and essential to help me. It's kind of like Paul said.


Romans 7
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Ephesians 5
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

Hebrews 5:13-14
For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Colossians 3:1-2
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

1 Corinthians 2:6
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

 

[brightfame52]

This is limiting God'provision of salvation for all and the same time conflating provision of a Saviour with appplication of salvation. Who can take away the sins of the world? Obviosly, Christ but the application of salvation are only those who will believe on him. The provision is for all but it is conditional.

False, when Christ takes away sins, He takes away its power to condemn and enslave and so it includes an application of its benefits. Its impossible for Christ to take away sin without destroying its power and setting us free from its dominion, thats half the job, Christ is a complete Saviour. His death sets His People free from sin in order to serve God Rom 6:18,22

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I dont think you understand the power of Christs death taking away sin friend.

 

[fredoheaven]

False, when Christ takes away sins, He takes away its power to condemn and enslave and so it includes an application of its benefits. Its impossible for Christ to take away sin without destroying its power and setting us free from its dominion, thats half the job, Christ is a complete Saviour. His death sets His People free from sin in order to serve God Rom 6:18,22

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I dont think you understand the power of Christs death taking away sin friend.

Your view requires no faith at all. We are justified by faith Romans 5:1, saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-9, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. I think you are out of context thus your prejudices are incorrect. Yes, Christ made us free from sin but when? When one places his faith in Christ. That perhaps is what you don’t have.

Galatians 5:1

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.



Gal. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

 

[Nufan]

False, when Christ takes away sins, He takes away its power to condemn and enslave and so it includes an application of its benefits. Its impossible for Christ to take away sin without destroying its power and setting us free from its dominion, thats half the job, Christ is a complete Saviour. His death sets His People free from sin in order to serve God Rom 6:18,22

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I dont think you understand the power of Christs death taking away sin friend.

Servant also means slave.

 

[Nufan]

False, when Christ takes away sins, He takes away its power to condemn and enslave and so it includes an application of its benefits. Its impossible for Christ to take away sin without destroying its power and setting us free from its dominion, thats half the job, Christ is a complete Saviour. His death sets His People free from sin in order to serve God Rom 6:18,22

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I dont think you understand the power of Christs death taking away sin friend.

Humans truly are not meant to be free.We will always be a slave to something. Choose who your master is. What paul is saying is that you have been freed from the bondage of sin and are now a slave to righteousness and by being a slave to righteousness you are are now a slave to god. You're also reading from a poor translation.A more proper translation for servant would be bond servant.

Romans 6
18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.

 

[homwardbound]

I completely agree. The places that I encounter God that were the most powerful weren't at churches. They were in the most unusual places. The places that I thought I would never encounter God, and yet that is where god encountered me in the most powerful ways. I do believe that you do need community. There needs to be a body of believers your involved with. I find that a church that offers sacraments have been very helpful for me in my walk and have helped me to grow deeper into a relationship with god. I don't think becoming a hermit is necessarily the answer unless you have a special calling to devote yourself to prayer and fasting. We do wanna make sure we have some sort of support group available cause I believe that this is necessary and essential for us to be successful in our walk. But on the other hand I also don't believe that you're obligated to go to a church and to submit yourself to a pastor especially if you can't find one in your area that is helping you to grow. So as long as you submit yourself to a prayer rule. You're reading your scripture every day, you have fellowship and community, and you're practicing charity in some way. Volunteering and helping those in need would also be a good thing to inorporate into your practice. I'm sure you're already aware of this. But the Bible does instruct us to do these things. You're right, pastor's won't teach this. Because it's become a business, and it's not a good business model to tell your congregation that their salvation does not rely on them or their church.

Experiences, all I see to search out any "Gold Nuggets" non everything good or bad happening. Paul saw contentment in all things good or bad. Now personalize those verses below is what I am now learning new in from God to me. Thank you, not accusing or condemning anyone, since God chose to not condemn me first

Philippians 1:15-19

Authorized (King James) Version

15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 but the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

 

[brightfame52]

Your view requires no faith at all. We are justified by faith Romans 5:1, saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-9, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. I think you are out of context thus your prejudices are incorrect. Yes, Christ made us free from sin but when? When one places his faith in Christ. That perhaps is what you don’t have.

Galatians 5:1

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.



Gal. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

The view Im testifying to takes away unbelief, and gives Faith, all accomplished by Christ.

 

[The_old_guy]

Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

Yes, the atonement accomplished all that, but for those who stubbornly refuse it, the atonement is not efficient.

 

[fredoheaven]

The view Im testifying to takes away unbelief, and gives Faith, all accomplished by Christ.

The blood must be applied at the doorpost, hence salvation in that house. How can we still need faith if I am already been saved? If my sins have already been taken away? You are putting a cart before a horse. Sorry my friend.
Exodus 12:7

“And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.”

Exodus 12:13

“And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.”

 

[homwardbound]

The blood must be applied at the doorpost, hence salvation in that house. How can we still need faith if I am already been saved? If my sins have already been taken away? You are putting a cart before a horse. Sorry my friend.
Exodus 12:7

“And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.”

Exodus 12:13

“And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.”

Today accomplished in the risen Son
Jesus, that Father gives us=, those that believe God are given this and are this in love to all, not a few as only the flesh was before getting born again by God for them in risen Son to them
Entering his courts with thanksgiving and praise (Ps 100:4)
All sin now by son on that cross in his shed blood taken away as far as the east is from the west. How far is th east from the west?
Psalm 103:12

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, the atonement accomplished all that, but for those who stubbornly refuse it, the atonement is not efficient.

False

 

[brightfame52]

The blood must be applied at the doorpost, hence salvation in that house. How can we still need faith if I am already been saved? If my sins have already been taken away? You are putting a cart before a horse. Sorry my friend.
Exodus 12:7

“And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.”

Exodus 12:13

“And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.”

The view Im testifying to takes away unbelief, and gives Faith, all accomplished by Christ.