The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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Mar 23, 2016
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I gave you a biblical understanding of it, i knew you wouldn't pay attention !
And I showed you where you did not give "a biblical understanding" of anything.

Concerning Luke 1:77, you stated:

we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins

that is not what the verse says:

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people


So, I do "pay attention !" to what you are saying.

And when what you are saying does not align with Scripture, I point that out to you.

You then ignore the fact that you are not aligned with Scripture and accuse me of not paying attention !

what a farce!!!


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Do you understand that accomplishment ? What did the death of Christ purpose to do according to Eph 5:25-26 ?
Salvation is now available.
Where as b 4 it was not.
The work completed.
Not all will apply to recieve the finished work
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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There is a closed door.
One outside knocking
The one inside must hear, respond, open, ask the one outside to come in, and repeat back to him the proper words, with passion, conviction, broken ness, and evidence.

Leave that out and the atonement is too broad.
No need for verses left off the table.
More verses is better
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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And I showed you where you did not give "a biblical understanding" of anything.

Concerning Luke 1:77, you stated:

we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins

that is not what the verse says:

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people


So, I do "pay attention !" to what you are saying.

And when what you are saying does not align with Scripture, I point that out to you.

You then ignore the fact that you are not aligned with Scripture and accuse me of not paying attention !

what a farce!!!


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



To brightflame;
Universalists have come in here.
I think most here are concerned you are promoting that concept.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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There is a closed door.
One outside knocking
The one inside must hear, respond, open, ask the one outside to come in, and repeat back to him the proper words, with passion, conviction, broken ness, and evidence.

Leave that out and the atonement is too broad.
No need for verses left off the table.
More verses is better


Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20 :)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10

And #2 He hath perfected them forever by His Offering Heb 10:14

14For by one offering[His Death or Blood] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now, If Christ's death hath perfected forever them that are being sanctified by His death VS10, then, that means everyone without exception hath been perfected before God by the Death of Christ. That word Perfected is the greek word teleioō and means:


to make perfect, complete

a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end

2) to complete (perfect)

a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full

b) to be found perfect

3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed

4) to accomplish

a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event

1) of the prophecies of the scriptures


GWT With one sacrifice he accomplished the work of setting them apart for God forever.

WNT For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin.

WNB For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

What is important to understand, is that this perfecting has been solely accomplished by Christ's ONE OFFERING !

This is why Paul says this Rom 5:1982


19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience[Offering] of one shall many be made righteous.

You see that ? Christ's one act of obedience or His Offering shall make many righteous, which is connected with that being made perfect by His Offering in Heb 10:14 !

Now the word Perfect in Heb 10:14 is also a Perfect tense passive verb. Again the Perfect tense means:

"an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated "

Now unless every single individual in the world without exception has been Perfected forever by the Offering of Christ, meaning His Death, then He could not have offered Himself in behalf of every single individual in the world without exception, lest The writer of Hebrews has been a false witness. Either the writer of Hebrews is a False witness or those preaching Christ died for all without exception, which all without exception are being saved, are false witnesses !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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And I showed you where you did not give "a biblical understanding" of anything.

Concerning Luke 1:77, you stated:

we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins

that is not what the verse says:

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people


So, I do "pay attention !" to what you are saying.

And when what you are saying does not align with Scripture, I point that out to you.

You then ignore the fact that you are not aligned with Scripture and accuse me of not paying attention !

what a farce!!!


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
So obviously you dont accept what I have stated with scripture, thats too bad !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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So obviously you dont accept what I have stated with scripture, thats too bad !
Do you believe you stated the following "with scripture" [bold mine]?

brightfame52 said:
So we receive it by Faith, Holy Spirit given Faith from New Birth, when we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins. Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins


you say: "when we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins"

Scripture says To give knowledge of salvation


You say nothing "with scripture" when what you say does not say what Scripture says.



Do you not understand this?


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 
Mar 23, 2016
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He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The words "for all" do not appear in the text ... the words were added by translators.

Due to your abysmal handling of Scripture, you really need to submit yourself to Hebrews 5:12 ... ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


see also 1 Peter

1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

...

2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.




 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Propitiation 1 Jn 4:10

1 Jn 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation[an appeasing] for our sins.

The word propitiation here as well as 1 Jn 2:2 is the greek word hilasmos and means:

an appeasing, propitiating

Our word appeases defined:

to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.

Christ death has accomplished Propitiation or Peace for all whom Christ died in the behalf of.

Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Or this scripture could very well read without doing no violence at all " and having made propitiation through through the blood of His Cross.

Peace, conciliation, pacific, are the results of Christ blood being shed !

Folks this is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all He died for. Now many false teachers appeal to 1 Jn 2:2 as a proof text that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, even though that is no where stated in the text. John, a believer, a jew, a minister to the circumcision Gal 2:9

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

John therefore a jew and sent to the jews did write to believers who were of the circumcision, meaning ethnic jews, and he stated that Christ had been their or our propitiation our peace for our sins [believing jews] but not for ours only, meaning not for jewish believers only, but He is also the propitiation of believers in the whole world or it could be better understood, of believers amongst all Nations of the Earth, in fulfillment of Gen 12:3

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You see, all the Families of the Earth means the whole wide world !

And that is what John means by, and not of ours only, but of the whole world.

Anyone whose sins have been propitiated, God is at peace with them through Jesus Christ, they can never perish for their sins, lest somehow Christ's blood becomes a non factor with God.. The believer does not present the Blood of Christ unto the Father, but Christ does ! And Christ forever intercedes in behalf of those He died for because of His Blood ! Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Heb 7:25

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb 7:3

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.83

Heb 5:6

As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Now, to whom and for whom is Christ a priest forever ? It's To God the Father, and its for all those He died for Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone Christ died for, He makes Intercession for, and His Blood has satisfied, propitiated the Father forever for them
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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The words "for all" do not appear in the text ... the words were added by translators.

Due to your abysmal handling of Scripture, you really need to submit yourself to Hebrews 5:12 ... ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


see also 1 Peter

1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

...

2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
Evasion and rabbit trail. Just because the word all isnt in the original doesnt change the truth that is being conveyed. According to Heb 10:10 how were they sanctified ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Evasion and rabbit trail.
nope ... statement of fact. The words "for all" do not appear in the text.




brightfame52 said:
Just because the word all isnt in the original doesnt change the truth that is being conveyed.
you aren't interested in "the truth that is being conveyed" in Scripture. You are only interested in "what [you] have stated".

and fyi ... it isn't "the word" singular. it's the "words" (plural). two words were added to the text ... "for" and "all".




brightfame52 said:
According to Heb 10:10 how were they sanctified ?
Again, before you can even begin to understand Heb 10:10, you need to humble yourself before the Father and start from the beginning

1 Peter

1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

...

2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.


Are you born again, brightfame52?

start there, desiring the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby ... then learn about the first principles of the oracles of God:

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.





 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Thats all i have been doing is explaining what I mean in my posts, you are validating my point !
At the risk of offending you , i will ask;

How does a lost john doe recieve salvation and enter the family of God as a born again member of the family of God?

He was lost.
Now how does he get saved.?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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At the risk of offending you , i will ask;

How does a lost john doe recieve salvation and enter the family of God as a born again member of the family of God?

He was lost.
Now how does he get saved.?
Read the thread please !
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Do you know that in addition to the church, the Lord Jesus Christ died for others? The church began on Day of Pentecost and continues to this day. However, what about those who lived and died prior to Day of Pentecost? The Lord Jesus Christ died for them as well ...
Just imagine saying that Christ only died for the forgiveness of sins based on the establishment of the church!!! That establishment had nothing to do with the facts of Christ dying for us. It is also not in the least bit true that God lied to people for thousands of years that they had only the sacrificial system for the forgiveness of sin. The Lord said through blood God gave on the altar there was forgiveness, God does not lie. Scripture tells us it was made perfect when Christ came, but it was always there.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Just imagine saying that Christ only died for the forgiveness of sins based on the establishment of the church!!! That establishment had nothing to do with the facts of Christ dying for us. It is also not in the least bit true that God lied to people for thousands of years that they had only the sacrificial system for the forgiveness of sin. The Lord said through blood God gave on the altar there was forgiveness, God does not lie. Scripture tells us it was made perfect when Christ came, but it was always there.
brightfame52 is wholly dedicated to replacement theology ... and limited atonement