The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
When He hath by Himself purged our sins sat down !2

Now who is the writer referring to here in Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Well the same word is used here but its purify Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify G2511 unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

This is the Church, For Titus whom the book of Titus was written to Titus 1:1-4

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

So Titus 2:14 applies to him as a Gentile Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The same word in Heb 1:3 as purge ! So who are the " Our sins" in Heb 1:3 ? Its the Church and also its Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Our sins is the Seed of Abraham, which is also the Church Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Church] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Remember Jesus is Heir in Heb 1:2-3

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

He purged the sins of the Heirs together with Him, His Church, The Seed of Abraham.

The Church is the Wife of the Husband Christ who is Heir. You know Peter wrote of the Christian Husband and Wife this 1 Pet 3:7

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Now all this was to show the connection of the Seed of Abraham and the Church as being the same People whom it refers to as Our Sins in Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now this cannot be refuted, I dare anyone to even try without twisting scripture. !
What can easily be refuted is:

1. the calvinist claim that salvation is by unconditional election
2. the calvinist claim that unregenerate man cannot believe the gospel.
3. the calvinist claim that all believers will persevere in the faith. {all believers WILL be preserved}
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
When He hath by Himself purged our sins sat down !3

Again, who are the " Our Sins" of Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

We showed that it was church previously and we showed and go back to that it's the Seed of Abraham, that follows within the overall context of Hebrews, written specifically to the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

He took on the Seed of Abraham to make Reconciliation or Propitiation for that particular People !

Took on Him actually means Heb 2:16

16 Clearly, it is not angels that Jesus helps. He helps the people who are from Abraham. ERV

16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.ESV

People say that's all ethnic jews ? That's wrong, its all believers in Christ, His Body the Church, jew or Gentile Gal 3:29

29 And if you belong to Christ [are in Him Who is Abraham’s Seed], then you are Abraham’s offspring and [spiritual] heirs according to promise. AMP

That's the Our Sins of Heb 1:3, why wouldn't be ? Who is more important to a Man than His Wife of whom He is One Flesh ? Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Now If Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16, then how could His Wife the Church , whom He is One flesh with, not be the Seed of Abraham ? Lets read Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So quite reasonably the Flesh and Blood of His Brethren here Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Abraham's Wife was actually His Sister also. Gen 20:12

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

So Likewise, Christ the Seed of Abraham, His Wife[His Bride] is also His Brethren Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Its His Bride the ChurchThe Seed of Abraham that is the Our Sins of Heb 1:3, and Vs 17 of Heb 2:17 is but a commentary of Heb 1:3 as well as 1 Cor 15:3.

Finally this purging of sin Heb 1:3 is a completed and accomplished work, it has noting to do with the acts or actions of those who are the Seed, it does not depend on their believing it, accepting it, their behavior or their sinful state, its a True fact even when they are in unbelief and rebellion and rejection of God. Regardless, God views them in the eyes of His Law as Not Guilty of one sin against His Law. As a result of Christ's purging our sins, it fulfills completely and finally what was only temporal and incomplete as a result of the offerings on the day of Atonement for the sins of the People Lev 16:30

30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.

Yes, Christ's purging of Our sins, if He died for us indeed, Gives God to view us as here indicated Col 1:22

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


21
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
When He hath by Himself purged our sins sat down !3

Again, who are the " Our Sins" of Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Great question, but one that calvinists have NO CLUE what it means.

For whom did Jesus come to save? The sick, the lost, the poor, the unrighteous, the ungodly, and sinners.

Jesus did this by purging the sins of "the lost, the poor, the unrighteous, the ungodly, and sinners".

Matt 9:12 On hearing this, Jesus said, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. Are just the elect “sick”?

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost. Are just the elect “lost”?

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. Are just the elect poor?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once FOR ALL, the righteous (Christ) for the unrighteous (humanity, all of them), to bring you to God. Are just the elect unrighteous?

Rom 5:6 You see, just at the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Are just the elect ungodly?

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. Are just the elect sinners?

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

The entire human race is described as sick, lost, poor, unrighteous, ungodly, and sinners. Every single one of us.

If Christ died for just the elect, then reformed theology leads to universalism, because of these verses. That means the non elect are neither sick, lost, poor, unrighteous, ungodly, or sinners. So they don’t need salvation. And Christ wouldn’t need to die for any of them.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
It delivers us from the power of darkness !

Col 1:12-14

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness [Unbelief], and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Before one can Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ from the Gospel, deliverance from the power of darkness is imperative, because those who are under the power of darkness and the devil are in a lost state , and believe not the Gospel because the god of this world, while he still has power over them, blinds their minds to believe not the Gospel 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

They believe not because they are under his blinding power in the mind.

Unbelief is but a symptom of being under the power and domain of satan and darkness, not delivered. Jesus said unbelief is because of the success of the devil here Lk 8:12

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

You see that ?

But when God delivers us first, its an translation out of one kingdom or power of darkness as Per Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive[by faith] forgiveness of sins [Acts 10:43], and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

God delivers them from the power of darkness into the Kingdom of His Dear Son, this by New Birth, then in the Kingdom of His Son Jn 3:3, we are made meet to believe the Gospel of that Kingdom.

Now who is it that shall be delivered from the power of darkness or of satan ? Its all those in Col 1:14

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

That word redemption means:

a releasing effected by payment of ransom redemption, deliverance
liberation procured by the payment of a ransom

That's the deliverance of Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Yes, that's Right, Redemption that is in His Blood, delivers those it was shed for, from the power of darkness and unbelief !
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
No its true, He died only for His elect.

Jesus is the truth. Jesus words are true.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world.



Please provide a scripture that says … “Jesus died for the elect only”






JPT
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
Jesus is the truth. Jesus words are true.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world.



Please provide a scripture that says … “Jesus died for the elect only”






JPT
World means Elect.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
The Blessing of Abraham !

Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This is something the religionists in false religion will not understand, however this passage is very informative as to what the Death of Christ shall effect, for all whom He died, that is, all for whom He hath redeemed from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for them.

The word redeemed in Vs 13 means:

by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death

to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

Lets highlight the definition " To recover from the power of another"

This is important because one of the consequences of the curse of the law is to be under the power of the devil, and an consequence of that is Unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes being blinded to the Gospel that we believe not, is because one is under the power of the devil !

Listen, if one refuses to believe the Glorious Gospel of Christ, its because they are under the power of the devil, simple as that !

Now lets return to our text Gal 3:13-14, the purpose of the Death of Christ, and the Results God intended thereby, was that by His Death redeeming everyone He died for from the curse of the Law, it was in order that [hina] denoting purpose, the Blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles through Faith !

That word come in come upon is the greek word givnomai and it means:

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive beingto become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events

It was for the purpose of causing something to happen, to bring about something that did not exist , to be performed, wrought

to become, be made

What this is talking about is New Birth, to become a New Creation. This is the result of having been Redeemed from the curse of the Law, solely by the Death of Christ !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
The Blessing of Abraham ! 2

So Christ's death was intended to Redeem those He died for from the curse of the Law, which was the Seed of Abraham, and by doing that, it was for the Purpose of the Gentiles [of the Spiritual Of Abraham] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit

Notice here that Paul includes himself in this blessing, because he is speaking of a spiritual seed of Abraham who the blessing comes upon, the Spirit.

Now with this in Mind, we want to look at Two Blessings which are the Blessing of Abraham, that comes upon the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, as a result of being redeemed from the curse of the Law by Christ's Death alone !

The First blessing is Justification by Faith. That's Right, God Justifying those Christ died for is a promise blessing of Abraham.

It was Preached to Abraham in the Gospel Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice here " Justification through Faith" is something promised He would do. In other words Justification and Faith are of the same blessing. One is not Justified by God without it being Justified by Faith.

Again Rom 3:30

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

God shall Justify the jew through Faith and the Gentile by Faith. The Faith is not the condition they must meet for God to Justify them, but it is part of the Promise of God to Justify them by and through it !

Back to Gal 3:9

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

This means that they partake of the Blessing of Abraham Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Listen carefully, the blessing of Redemption from the curse Gal 3:13 is to be Justified by Faith as a Part of the Blessing of Abraham ! Not a opportunity made available to be Justified by Faith, but a sure blessing to be Justified by Faith ! That's the First blessing of Abraham !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
The Blessing of Abraham ! 3

The Second Blessing of the Blessing of Abraham, what God meant when He said to Abraham Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The second one is the Holy Spirit and or Spiritual Life. Lets go back to Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

That [hina purpose] we [Abraham's Spiritual Seed] might receive the PROMISE of the Spirit through Faith [Christ's Faithfulness]

It was because Christ, Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16 obeyed the Voice of His Father as a Surety Head for the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, that Seed receives the Blessing of the Spirit for Life.

Remember this incident in Gen 22:12-18

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Click to expand...​
Well Abraham was merely a Type of Christ in this, and its fulfillment is In Christ and His Obedience unto Death, because He obeyed the Voice of God, in Him all the Seed shall be blessed with the Blessing of Abraham which is the Spirit.

That's why as soon as Jesus Christ ascended to the Right Hand of God having conqured Death, He received from the Father THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT to pour out on His Seed, the Seed of Abraham Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Yes, that was upon a Jewish Remnant of the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, but we know He did it also upon a Gentile Remnant of the Seed of Abraham Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Or through Faith, His Faithfulness !

Titus to whom Paul wrote the Letter to was an Gentile Pastor of a Church.

So all for whom Christ died, and redeemed from the curse of the Law, it was in order that through Christ they shall be Justified by Faith and that they shall be given the Spirit, New Life, New Birth.

This must happen to everyone Christ died for, if it doesn't, the scriptures are false and unreliable in its Testimony in this Matter. Those who teach that Christ died for individuals who subsequently die in unbelief and their sins as Per Jn 8:24, they are calling God a Liar, Christ's Redeeming Death a Lie, The Spirit a Lie, the Scriptures a Lie !
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
This must happen to everyone Christ died for
The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ died for everyone. Not some limited group.

if it doesn't, the scriptures are false and unreliable in its Testimony in this Matter.
Any theology that claims that Jesus Christ didn't die for everyone is false and unreliable. It is UN-biblical.

Those who teach that Christ died for individuals who subsequently die in unbelief and their sins as Per Jn 8:24, they are calling God a Liar
This is a stupid lie. Christ's death for everyone means NO ONE has an excuse for dying in their sins. The gospel message of salvation has been brought or offered to everyone, as Titus 2:11 says.

What calvinists seem unable to understand is that if Christ didn't die for someone, that person WOULD HAVE AN EXCUSE for ending up in the lake of fire.

The excuse?? "God didn't choose me." Calvinism is so far away from the Bible in their TULIP doctrines.

Christ's Redeeming Death a Lie
The LIE is that Christ death saves. btw, 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. refers to everyone, or "the world".

So, the redeeming is Christ paying for everyone's sins. In that payment, Christ obtained eternal redemption for everyone.

Heb 9:12 - He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

This means Jesus Christ holds the free gift of eternal life for everyone. But the gift must be received. It is received through belief.

John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Thist poster needs to be asked by someone else why he can't share verses that clearly say what he keep claiming.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
He was made unto us Sanctification ! 2

What else does it mean by Christ was made unto us Sanctification as Per 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Now listen, this means that all for whom Christ died, all for whom He was made of God unto them Righteousness by Legal Imputation, He is made unto them in addition Sanctification, by a communication of Spiritual Life/Grace to their inward parts, and by this they are subjectively made alive unto God. Lets Look at this word sanctification once more. It is the greek word hagiasmos and means:

I.
consecration, purification

II.
the effect of consecration
A.
sanctification of heart and life

C.to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Christ has been made unto us Sanctification, and because of it, those He died for must be made internally renewed.

Its what we have here taking place Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: or

Jer 31:33

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That word inward means:

ii.
as seat of thought and emotion

iii.
as faculty of thought and emotion

Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

This inner Sanctification is by the Spirit of God communicating Life, its called the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Same word as in 1 Cor 1:30, so the Spirit must give Sanctification of Heart and Life for Christ's sake to all for whom He died, or He fails His Role in the Economy of Salvation.

Peter writes about it also here 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Sanctification of the Spirit, as a result of Christ's Covenant Death for all whom He died, it imparts Life and Grace into spiritually dead sinners, it enlivens them, quickens them to the things of God which are evangelical obedience, they believe through this means Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: or through the Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth !

These things must be True if God made Christ unto us Sanctification !
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Now listen, this means that all for whom Christ died
This poster refuses to accept the biblical truth that Jesus Christ died for everyone, all.

Calvinists generally argue that those verses that use "all" really mean "all kinds of". However, there are Greek words for "kind" or "kinds". If Jesus' death was on behalf of ONLY a specific group of humans, the verses would have made that clear. So the argument that "all" really means "all kinds of" is ludicrous.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

So, let's switch "everyone" here, or 'pas' in the Greek, to "all kinds of". Doesn't make a bit of sense, does it.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Believers need to understand that the word for "chosen" here isn't the Greek word translated "elected" or "chosen" in every other verse. In fact, the Greek word here only occurs here. It is "haireomai". The Greek word for "elect" or "choose" is eklegomai. Not even close.

Further, the verse isn't saying that God chooses to salvation, but rather, God chooses to salvation THE MEANS OR MECHANISM of salvation. iow, God has chosen the means of salvation to be THROUGH the sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

That's how people are saved. Belief in the truth. A fact throughout the Bible.

Peter writes about it also here 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
This is a great verse that plainly shows the purpose of being "elect": for service. The words "unto obedience" is the purpose of election in EVERY example in the Bible.

Second, we learn that election is based on, or according to, God's foreknowledge. iow, He choice of election is based on what He knows.

Calvinists reject all these facts.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
The Blessing of Abraham ! 4

Scripture shall always collaborate scripture for those who have eyes to see ! We have previously showed that Two distinct blessings result from being redeemed from the curse of the Law as a result of Christ being made a curse for them Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

These Two Blessings consisit of the Blessing of Abraham to come upon all for whom Christ died and redeem from the curse of the Law, one being Justification by Faith Gal 3:8-9

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

And the other, the Holy Spirit of Promise and or Spiritual Life. The Spirit is the Author of Life Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now another scripture that teaches the same is Gal 2:19

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that=hina I might live unto God.

Paul is saying, that he by means of being dead to the law by the body of Christ, dead to its curse and power, by the Christ redeeming him from the Law, was that he may live [spiritually] unto God. Life is the result of being redeemed from the curse of the Law by Christ being made a curse for him. Where there is no curse, Life must be granted !

Pauls death or being dead to the Law is in order that, for the purpose of causing them to Live unto God.

The same truth is here Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

This is the Blessing of Abraham !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
Produces Life unto God /Righteousness !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that/hina purpose we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

If the end result was not or is not, living unto Righteousness or by Faith in the Imputed Righteousness of Christ, then there is absolutely no certainty that Christ died for us, or as stated here "By His own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree"

And healed us. That word healed Iaomai means:

to cure, heal
to make whole to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

That to bring about one's Salvation means a Life of Righteousness unto God, a Life of Faith !

If that does not happen to everyone sins He bare in His Body on the Tree, then we are calling Christ's Death an absolute failure in the Purpose of God !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
The World of His Sheep or Church

Christ states that by His Death , meaning by it alone, He gives Life to the World, of course He means by that the world of His Sheep or His Body the Church, which He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

But what we shall see from scripture is that by giving His Life unto the World, He is actually giving life to the world He intends it for. Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Now who can deny what is stated by Christ here ? He is giving [present active participle] life [spiritual] to the World [of His Church]

This is not an offer of life. The word giveth is δίδωμι

with the force of to cause, produce, give forth from oneself. He is the Author and Cause of it, for the Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ !

Now lets read in the same Chapter Jn 6:48-51

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Now what is the Bread that He shall give ? Its His Flesh or His Body, and how does He give it ? He gave it as a Sacrifice for sin 1 Pet 2:24 for the sins of His Sheep World, for He died on behalf of them, for the sake of them, so in turn they receive Life Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

His Life given for them, gives them life out of Him or from Him; Now this cannot be denied, and so by this His Death alone communicates unto them Life, Eternal Life ! Jesus says it right here Jn 10:10-11,28


10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
The World of His Sheep or Church

Christ states that by His Death , meaning by it alone, He gives Life to the World
What verse says this? We are saved by His resurrected LIFE.

Romans 4:25 - He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

His death removed the barrier of sin between God and man. His resurrection was the power of God unto justification (salvation).

of course He means by that the world of His Sheep or His Body the Church, which He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
In the NT, there are NO verses that link "His sheep" to the "church".

But what we shall see from scripture is that by giving His Life unto the World, He is actually giving life to the world He intends it for. Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Now who can deny what is stated by Christ here ? He is giving [present active participle] life [spiritual] to the World [of His Church]
He gives ETERNAL LIFE to those who believe in Him. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 11:25-27

This is not an offer of life.
It is the grace of God that brings (offers) salvation to everyone. Titus 2:11
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
This verse is understood from John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This verse establishes that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. That would obviously be from the MOMENT of belief.

So, John 10:28 tells us the result of being given eternal life; the recipient shall never perish.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,918
516
113
I will redeem them from death !

Hosea 13:14

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

When the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of those He did die for, namely His Sheep / Church, He did redeem them from the penalty of death that their sins incurred Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That means a reversal is due, since their death has been paid in full ! He has redeemed them from death and the wrath of God, for which their sins of theirs did so merited and deserve, for which means they could never be of these here Eph 5:3-6

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Yet God's wrath cannot cometh upon any of the ones Christ died for, because as their Kinsmen Redeemer He delivered them from death and wrath.

By His Death alone He hath delivered them from the wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Yes the same Jesus as in Matt 1:21 !

The Promise above 1 Thess 1:10 is premised solely on Christ having died for them and who the Father raised from the dead for their Justification Rom 4:25, for He hath bore God's Wrath and Curse for them, in their room and stead.

No one Christ died for shall ever experience one smidge of God's Wrath, that which is coming upon the children of disobedience. Neither can they ever be any of these Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Not even while in unbelief do they come under God's Wrath, to ever say so is totally demeaning to the Blood of Christ and what it means to God's Righteous Justice for those He died for.21

Also, they are redeemed from Spiritual Death, by New Birth !