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The fundamental question is, Is God's specific guidance and direction necessary and relevant for church today?. Absolutely. And given that, prophesy is necessary and relevant for today. For that is all prophesy is really. Does this mean the bible needs completing? No, the bible is finished and complete. And it's a shame to tamper with ancient historical documents anyway.
That doesn't mean we cant write a book that is inspired that addresses other things.
For example, look at all the christian books around today, dvd's etc.
Obviously, the bible alone is not enough for many Christians.
Excellent point.
Very good point, and exactly right. God has no more to say on these things.
What He does have to say though, is how He wants His church to best use the time they have now on earth, to fulfill His plans and purposes until Jesus returns. To fulfill the plan of salvation and bring it to completion.
And for that reason, we need people who hear the voice of God and obey it. Whether it be through the Word or other ways. While it is correct to say we hear Gods voice through the Word, we need to know which parts of the Scripture God wants us to read, and which parts are standing out to us. We cannot use our own mind to interpret what we think God is saying, but must even interpret the bible with the Spirit's help. Or if you like, we need people who can read the bible and know which parts to read and which parts God is speaking through, that are relevant for the situation today and tomorrow. That all comes under the general heading of "prophecy".
God did NOT, set up the church , close the canon, cease prophesy, and then expect His people to use their own human effort, intellect and what THEY THINK IS RIGHT in their own ways and mind, to fulfill His salvation plans for the next 2000 years. That is why many modern day churches are structural worldly organisations centred around pride, greed, and money, and control, rather than doing what they supposed to be doing.
That doesn't mean we cant write a book that is inspired that addresses other things.
For example, look at all the christian books around today, dvd's etc.
Obviously, the bible alone is not enough for many Christians.
Excellent point.
Very good point, and exactly right. God has no more to say on these things.
What He does have to say though, is how He wants His church to best use the time they have now on earth, to fulfill His plans and purposes until Jesus returns. To fulfill the plan of salvation and bring it to completion.
And for that reason, we need people who hear the voice of God and obey it. Whether it be through the Word or other ways. While it is correct to say we hear Gods voice through the Word, we need to know which parts of the Scripture God wants us to read, and which parts are standing out to us. We cannot use our own mind to interpret what we think God is saying, but must even interpret the bible with the Spirit's help. Or if you like, we need people who can read the bible and know which parts to read and which parts God is speaking through, that are relevant for the situation today and tomorrow. That all comes under the general heading of "prophecy".
God did NOT, set up the church , close the canon, cease prophesy, and then expect His people to use their own human effort, intellect and what THEY THINK IS RIGHT in their own ways and mind, to fulfill His salvation plans for the next 2000 years. That is why many modern day churches are structural worldly organisations centred around pride, greed, and money, and control, rather than doing what they supposed to be doing.
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I am not completing anything thing just showing you where the the bride is already received her white linen before the first resurrection, and you sir have not showed how this could be except the bride is there before the first resurrection, i am showing scripture all you are doing is asking why would God do this. the Jews did not preach that the Messiah has come but rather He will come does this mean that because they didn't preach this as , the early christians didn't preach of a pre-trib that both have to be false and we are still waiting on the Messiah? God forbid! your argument is not from scripture but through man's reason. because it was not preached in the early Church does not mean that it is not Bible, if we can find it in scripture it is Bible. let me give you these verses ONE MORE TIME
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
before the First resurrection the marriage is come (it is here) there is 17 verses that start with "and" (meaning the story is continue in pregressive order) between the marriage and what the Bible referrs to as the first resurrection of those that denied the mark of the beast. so explain this from scriptures sir. please.
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
and then it even says that the rest will be resurrected after the thousand year reign. I am finish with this sir, will be my last response, I have showed you many times from scriptures all you have shown is man's reason or man's teaching instead of show me the Money sir please show me scriptures!!! where that the bride and the reat of the dead are raised on the same day???
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
before the First resurrection the marriage is come (it is here) there is 17 verses that start with "and" (meaning the story is continue in pregressive order) between the marriage and what the Bible referrs to as the first resurrection of those that denied the mark of the beast. so explain this from scriptures sir. please.
Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
and then it even says that the rest will be resurrected after the thousand year reign. I am finish with this sir, will be my last response, I have showed you many times from scriptures all you have shown is man's reason or man's teaching instead of show me the Money sir please show me scriptures!!! where that the bride and the reat of the dead are raised on the same day???
Someone hearing God's voice in their life now.. happens through applying scripture.
For example.. The majority of New Testament books are about how to run matters in a church family. Each church in the NT gets given their own guidance about what God wants for them from God speaking through holy men to them.. such as Paul.
So.. church discipline.. their is a standard for bringing conflicts between sinning church members to be seen to in a church family, before being put out into public and the law. So apply this standard to a church today, and you will see God's blessings and hand working in your church!
Another example.. (and there are thousands of them).. a fellow church member is struggling and weak.. and so you find scripture that talks about encouraging and edifying your fellow church family member.. and help them. God again blesses that.. and it his hand may be seen working in that.
The point is.. God speaks to us now through applying what is in scripture. His guidance becomes clear and direction becomes clear when we apply scripture to our lives.
I don't think Baptistrw is saying God doesn't speak to people now.. he is saying he does through applying scripture to your life. This is where God can speak to each person personally.. not through an audible voice, but a strong, quiet, obvious hand.
For example.. The majority of New Testament books are about how to run matters in a church family. Each church in the NT gets given their own guidance about what God wants for them from God speaking through holy men to them.. such as Paul.
So.. church discipline.. their is a standard for bringing conflicts between sinning church members to be seen to in a church family, before being put out into public and the law. So apply this standard to a church today, and you will see God's blessings and hand working in your church!
Another example.. (and there are thousands of them).. a fellow church member is struggling and weak.. and so you find scripture that talks about encouraging and edifying your fellow church family member.. and help them. God again blesses that.. and it his hand may be seen working in that.
The point is.. God speaks to us now through applying what is in scripture. His guidance becomes clear and direction becomes clear when we apply scripture to our lives.
I don't think Baptistrw is saying God doesn't speak to people now.. he is saying he does through applying scripture to your life. This is where God can speak to each person personally.. not through an audible voice, but a strong, quiet, obvious hand.
K
There are many Christian books at the book store. They talk about things God has told them or showed them through life. I guess what I'm trying to say is God still talks to his children, but does it all need to be put into scripture? God gives us the facts in the bible. If you have a question with a little research you can find the answer in the Bible. As a personal opinion I don't think God needs to say it twice when it is already laid out in front of us.
hehehe well sir, pastor, you better be pretty sure of yourself if you try and convince me that a doctrine that did not exist before the 1800's is the absolute truth on that matter, (rapture) and that my views are merely man's teachings. Early christians did not teach pre-trib rapture, neither did Calvin or Luther believe in it, or Roman Catholics. That tells you something doesn't it? It's a new doctrine. And to relate it back to the topic of this thread, it is a type of "adding to God's word". That's why you must rely upon movies, games and books (Left Behind series), to propagate this heretical doctrine of devils. On scripture alone, on Church history, you aint got nothing buddy. Just your same old unlearned, ignorant and naive rhetoric.
S
The Scofield Study Bible is probably one of the things most responsible for the spread of Premillenialism iin the last 60 years.
It is a popular and sensational theory but it is unsound. Fortunately it has been losing ground with more serious minded scholars.
The Baptist church has not always held this view. One of their best scholars, Ray Summers, has a great commentary on Revelation, Worthy is the Lamb. This does not teach the premillenial view.
It is a popular and sensational theory but it is unsound. Fortunately it has been losing ground with more serious minded scholars.
The Baptist church has not always held this view. One of their best scholars, Ray Summers, has a great commentary on Revelation, Worthy is the Lamb. This does not teach the premillenial view.
A
I also believe the canon of scripture is closed.
Because I believe this, I also believe that there are no more prophets or words of knowledge.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
I believe the perfect here is referring to the scriptures, causing all these things to have ceased due to the fact we have no more needs for sign gifts, prophets or knowledge. The Word covers EVERYTHING!!!!!
Because I believe this, I also believe that there are no more prophets or words of knowledge.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
I believe the perfect here is referring to the scriptures, causing all these things to have ceased due to the fact we have no more needs for sign gifts, prophets or knowledge. The Word covers EVERYTHING!!!!!
G
The command in Revelation not to "add to or take away from the prophecies of this book" applies to the book of Revelation only, not the entire bible. The Bible, in it's current form, did not exist when Revelation was written. When the various books and letters of the New Testament were assembled into our current canon generations after John died, Revelation was put as the final book, and since that command is at the end of that book, many people take it out of context to mean that the "book" Revelation refers to is the entire book we call The Bible. We're smarter than this.
Does (Rev 12:9-12) only have a future reference for the inhabitance of the earth that will be living in the tribulation period or does it refer to an action from God in the past according to (Luke 10:18, Ez 28:16,17) having a present application as Satan accuses the brethren day and night as we speak? How could Satan desire to sift Peter as wheat (Lk 22:31) unless he was already cast down seeking who He may devour (1Pt 5:8) as a murderer and a liar (John 8:44) as the prince and power of the air (Eph 2:2) and the god of this world system (2Cor 4:4) who has strategies and devices (2Cor 2:11) to cause confusion (1Cor 14:33, Acts 19:29) and prevail against the church (Mt 16:18)?
Was the serpent in the garden, who deceived the woman, Satan or do we have that wrong also? Is it possible that an inspired scripture could have a past, present and future application and be considered good enough for the canon of scriptures? God forbid! They must have made a mistake and Groundhog, you are just the one to correct it with your contrived intellectualism and rationalized system of perception. Could a number of prophecies be given by many in the old time (past), fulfilled by Christ 1000's of years later and have present and future results for 1000's of years? With all of this, you are going to dogmatically claim that the prophecies referred to in (Rev 22:18,19) only apply to the book of Revelation, that you can't claim and have no evidence that it is even inspired.
If you and others want to believe that these warnings only apply to the book of Revelation, then you have the freedom (at will) to add to and take away from the other (65) books of the Bible. Then you can say what you want and have no fear of the consequences that is warned about in (Rev 22:18,19). Leave the book of Revelation alone and believe and say what you want about the rest of it. Remember this, it is all one book, it is all inspired, it is all from God, it can't be broken, it all will be fulfilled, every word of it is pure and it will be our judge. Shall not the judge of all the earth do right (Gen 18:25)?
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