The Bible Verse By Verse Continued... Discussion Thread
- Thread starter GracethroughfaithinChrist
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I'm having severe internet connection problems.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
I'm disappointed because there is something included in some of Jeremiah's prophecies I have noticed
& wanted to bring up for possible discussion. Right now I don't know if I can stay on line long enough to type
my observation with related scripture.
I hope it will still be ok for me to bring it up here even if we have completed Jeremiah.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
I'm disappointed because there is something included in some of Jeremiah's prophecies I have noticed
& wanted to bring up for possible discussion. Right now I don't know if I can stay on line long enough to type
my observation with related scripture.
I hope it will still be ok for me to bring it up here even if we have completed Jeremiah.
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I'm having severe internet connection problems.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
I'm disappointed because there is something included in some of Jeremiah's prophecies I have noticed
& wanted to bring up for possible discussion. Right now I don't know if I can stay on line long enough to type
my observation with related scripture.
I hope it will still be ok for me to bring it up here even if we have completed Jeremiah.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
I'm disappointed because there is something included in some of Jeremiah's prophecies I have noticed
& wanted to bring up for possible discussion. Right now I don't know if I can stay on line long enough to type
my observation with related scripture.
I hope it will still be ok for me to bring it up here even if we have completed Jeremiah.
Sorry about the internet connection problems.
I'm interested in discussing the prophecies of Jeremiah that you have noticed, and look forward to seeing you back here when ever you make it back
The Amplified Bible is *not* guilty of illegitimate totality transfer. I have been researching this topic for 2 years, collecting together various explanations and examples of this exegetical fallacy to see for myself if it is actually occuring in the Amplified Bible. I put together all the evidence for and against, comparing the AMP with other 'mainstream' versions such as the ESV, KJV, NASB, and the NIV. If you google "Context is for Kings: Is the Amplified Bible Guilty of Illegitimate Totality Transfer?" the PDF is the first search result. Of course, if you *do* know of a legit example of illegitimate totality transfer actually happening in the AMP, I would be happy to add it; that would make my day!
But, what you'll find is that it's just wars between publishers and the scholars they employ. For example, imagine my surprise to learn that the most-cited critic of the Amplified Bible was the lead New Testament scholar for Thomas
Nelson’s Expanded Bible, which according to its introduction (p. v) “allows the reader to see multiple possibilities for words, phrases,
and interpretations. Rather than opting for one choice, it shows many”(!). How is the Expanded Bible not guilty like the Amplified Bible, you ask? Well, I went straight to the horse's mouth and asked Mark Strauss to explain this self-contradiction (see pages 110-118, attached to this post). I asked him to provide an example where the EXB gets right what the AMP got wrong... Well, he got checkmated with each and every example, usually just by quoting his own words against him. See for yourself!
Also, the link that GracethroughfaithinChrist provided is from Robert Plummer. I have included every quote by him on this topic, including the result of our one-on-one discussion. (See pages 21, 44, 73, 84, 103-106, and 122). He also couldn't provide an example of illegitimate totality transfer in the AMP when directly asked. Again, see for yourself!
But, what you'll find is that it's just wars between publishers and the scholars they employ. For example, imagine my surprise to learn that the most-cited critic of the Amplified Bible was the lead New Testament scholar for Thomas
Nelson’s Expanded Bible, which according to its introduction (p. v) “allows the reader to see multiple possibilities for words, phrases,
and interpretations. Rather than opting for one choice, it shows many”(!). How is the Expanded Bible not guilty like the Amplified Bible, you ask? Well, I went straight to the horse's mouth and asked Mark Strauss to explain this self-contradiction (see pages 110-118, attached to this post). I asked him to provide an example where the EXB gets right what the AMP got wrong... Well, he got checkmated with each and every example, usually just by quoting his own words against him. See for yourself!
Also, the link that GracethroughfaithinChrist provided is from Robert Plummer. I have included every quote by him on this topic, including the result of our one-on-one discussion. (See pages 21, 44, 73, 84, 103-106, and 122). He also couldn't provide an example of illegitimate totality transfer in the AMP when directly asked. Again, see for yourself!
The Amplified Bible is *not* guilty of illegitimate totality transfer. I have been researching this topic for 2 years, collecting together various explanations and examples of this exegetical fallacy to see for myself if it is actually occuring in the Amplified Bible. I put together all the evidence for and against, comparing the AMP with other 'mainstream' versions such as the ESV, KJV, NASB, and the NIV. If you google "Context is for Kings: Is the Amplified Bible Guilty of Illegitimate Totality Transfer?" the PDF is the first search result. Of course, if you *do* know of a legit example of illegitimate totality transfer actually happening in the AMP, I would be happy to add it; that would make my day!
But, what you'll find is that it's just wars between publishers and the scholars they employ. For example, imagine my surprise to learn that the most-cited critic of the Amplified Bible was the lead New Testament scholar for Thomas
Nelson’s Expanded Bible, which according to its introduction (p. v) “allows the reader to see multiple possibilities for words, phrases,
and interpretations. Rather than opting for one choice, it shows many”(!). How is the Expanded Bible not guilty like the Amplified Bible, you ask? Well, I went straight to the horse's mouth and asked Mark Strauss to explain this self-contradiction (see pages 110-118, attached to this post). I asked him to provide an example where the EXB gets right what the AMP got wrong... Well, he got checkmated with each and every example, usually just by quoting his own words against him. See for yourself!
Also, the link that GracethroughfaithinChrist provided is from Robert Plummer. I have included every quote by him on this topic, including the result of our one-on-one discussion. (See pages 21, 44, 73, 84, 103-106, and 122). He also couldn't provide an example of illegitimate totality transfer in the AMP when directly asked. Again, see for yourself!
But, what you'll find is that it's just wars between publishers and the scholars they employ. For example, imagine my surprise to learn that the most-cited critic of the Amplified Bible was the lead New Testament scholar for Thomas
Nelson’s Expanded Bible, which according to its introduction (p. v) “allows the reader to see multiple possibilities for words, phrases,
and interpretations. Rather than opting for one choice, it shows many”(!). How is the Expanded Bible not guilty like the Amplified Bible, you ask? Well, I went straight to the horse's mouth and asked Mark Strauss to explain this self-contradiction (see pages 110-118, attached to this post). I asked him to provide an example where the EXB gets right what the AMP got wrong... Well, he got checkmated with each and every example, usually just by quoting his own words against him. See for yourself!
Also, the link that GracethroughfaithinChrist provided is from Robert Plummer. I have included every quote by him on this topic, including the result of our one-on-one discussion. (See pages 21, 44, 73, 84, 103-106, and 122). He also couldn't provide an example of illegitimate totality transfer in the AMP when directly asked. Again, see for yourself!
Where is Ishtar in the text of Jeremiah 44:17?
TabinRivCA,
Get over it!
Again...
"The Amplified Bible is "viewed as being guilty of illegitimate totality transfer" and is not welcome in this thread".
Nor do I wish to discuss it anymore with you here, or anywhere else.
Here is a suggestion...
Open a thread of your own if you would like to use that version or discuss it there.
I'm having severe internet connection problems.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
Hoping to have the issue resolved by the 15th July but until then it may continue to be difficult for me
to establish a connection long enough to contribute to The Verse by Verse Thread.
I will continue to try though.
I meant 15th June. Duh!!
Time goes by quickly enough without me editing a whole month out of it!!
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As a point of interest- Contained in Jeremiah's prophecies-
I haven't read/heard this from a teacher or commentary but in recent years it stands out to me when reading Jeremiah.
I'm sure others have noticed as well but I've never discussed it with anyone.
As we have been posting the book verse by verse, it's quite a noticable feature again.
Within the cycle of judgement-punishment to repentence-blessing, The Lord uses a specific method for the punishment phase.
He states it through the prophet 14 times. (I might be off by 1 or 2)
Just 2 examples:
Although they fast, I will not listen to their cry; though they offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.
Instead, I will destroy them with the sword, famine and plague.’ ~Jer 14:12
I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.”’
~Jer 24:10
KJV uses pestilence instead of plague.
So there it is. Sword Famine & Plague.
Ezekiel warns of these three as well.
Outside is the sword; inside are plague and famine. Those in the country will die by the sword; those in the city will be devoured by famine and plague. Ez 7:15
I haven't read/heard this from a teacher or commentary but in recent years it stands out to me when reading Jeremiah.
I'm sure others have noticed as well but I've never discussed it with anyone.
As we have been posting the book verse by verse, it's quite a noticable feature again.
Within the cycle of judgement-punishment to repentence-blessing, The Lord uses a specific method for the punishment phase.
He states it through the prophet 14 times. (I might be off by 1 or 2)
Just 2 examples:
Although they fast, I will not listen to their cry; though they offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.
Instead, I will destroy them with the sword, famine and plague.’ ~Jer 14:12
I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.”’
~Jer 24:10
KJV uses pestilence instead of plague.
So there it is. Sword Famine & Plague.
Ezekiel warns of these three as well.
Outside is the sword; inside are plague and famine. Those in the country will die by the sword; those in the city will be devoured by famine and plague. Ez 7:15
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Rev 6:
7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 And I looked, and there was a pale green horse. Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following after him. They were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Although there is a difference here in that John's prophecy has a 4th element - "wild beasts"
The wild beasts are included with 2 of Ezekiel's verses. So Revelation is still harmonious with the rest of prophecy.
I will send famine and wild beasts against you, and they will leave you childless. Plague and bloodshed will sweep through you, and I will bring the sword against you. I the LORD have spoken.” ~Ez 5:17
“For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! ~ Ez 14:21
7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 And I looked, and there was a pale green horse. Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following after him. They were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Although there is a difference here in that John's prophecy has a 4th element - "wild beasts"
The wild beasts are included with 2 of Ezekiel's verses. So Revelation is still harmonious with the rest of prophecy.
I will send famine and wild beasts against you, and they will leave you childless. Plague and bloodshed will sweep through you, and I will bring the sword against you. I the LORD have spoken.” ~Ez 5:17
“For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! ~ Ez 14:21
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Interesting observations LP.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
Also several warnings in Jeremiah to turn away from the things God doesn't like before incurring God's wrath and God's just judgement.
As you have pointed out from the Scriptures...... The sword, famine, and plague seem to be what's coming when Jew or Gentile refuses to turn away from wickedness and evil, and unto repentance.
Paul's letter to the Romans comes to mind.......
Romans 2:4-11
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
Also several warnings in Jeremiah to turn away from the things God doesn't like before incurring God's wrath and God's just judgement.
As you have pointed out from the Scriptures...... The sword, famine, and plague seem to be what's coming when Jew or Gentile refuses to turn away from wickedness and evil, and unto repentance.
Paul's letter to the Romans comes to mind.......
Romans 2:4-11
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
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Beginning Lamentations, Poor Jeremiah! He lived at a difficult, time.
It's a good time to note that the first 4 chapters of Lamentations are 4 acrostic poems, the verses of which begin with
the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The verses of each stanza begin with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and the verses within each stanza begin with the same letter.
Obviously this is lost in translation but it's good to note the refined literary style that was used.
We should appreciate the quality of the book. These early Lamentations chapters must have been asthetically pleasing
but quite labour-intensive for any scribes making copies.
It's a good time to note that the first 4 chapters of Lamentations are 4 acrostic poems, the verses of which begin with
the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The verses of each stanza begin with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and the verses within each stanza begin with the same letter.
Obviously this is lost in translation but it's good to note the refined literary style that was used.
We should appreciate the quality of the book. These early Lamentations chapters must have been asthetically pleasing
but quite labour-intensive for any scribes making copies.
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Beginning Lamentations, Poor Jeremiah! He lived at a difficult, time.
It's a good time to note that the first 4 chapters of Lamentations are 4 acrostic poems, the verses of which begin with
the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The verses of each stanza begin with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and the verses within each stanza begin with the same letter.
Obviously this is lost in translation but it's good to note the refined literary style that was used.
We should appreciate the quality of the book. These early Lamentations chapters must have been asthetically pleasing
but quite labour-intensive for any scribes making copies.
It's a good time to note that the first 4 chapters of Lamentations are 4 acrostic poems, the verses of which begin with
the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The verses of each stanza begin with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and the verses within each stanza begin with the same letter.
Obviously this is lost in translation but it's good to note the refined literary style that was used.
We should appreciate the quality of the book. These early Lamentations chapters must have been asthetically pleasing
but quite labour-intensive for any scribes making copies.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about the book of Lamentations here LP.
BTW, I really like these Bible Project Overview videos.
I wish we had had something like these at our fingertips when I first started to read The Bible!
They must be very useful for anyone new to bible study who is keen to become more familiar with it.
They are good refreshers for Bible veterans too.
I wish we had had something like these at our fingertips when I first started to read The Bible!
They must be very useful for anyone new to bible study who is keen to become more familiar with it.
They are good refreshers for Bible veterans too.
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There is definitely acrostics in the book of Lamentations. I'm glad you brought it up here.
The first time I read the Bible (30 years ago) I read the NIV with footnotes out of a parallel Bible, and may have read about them then, but have since then forgotten if they were even mentioned.
It had a KJV and an ESV, and another version in it, but in my late teens and early 20's the NIV was the only version I could comprehend lol.
I remember reading the footnotes back then when I ever saw one, but it's been so long since then, I don't remember what was written in the footnotes.
Thank you again for sharing your knowledge about the book of Lamentations here LP.
The first time I read the Bible (30 years ago) I read the NIV with footnotes out of a parallel Bible, and may have read about them then, but have since then forgotten if they were even mentioned.
It had a KJV and an ESV, and another version in it, but in my late teens and early 20's the NIV was the only version I could comprehend lol.
I remember reading the footnotes back then when I ever saw one, but it's been so long since then, I don't remember what was written in the footnotes.
Thank you again for sharing your knowledge about the book of Lamentations here LP.
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