THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
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#1
I know that there will be a lot of Christians who do not agree with me on this subject. However, when one studies the Jewish Wedding Traditions and how the apply to Christ Calling Out His Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, it becomes obvious that it will happen prior to the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

Because of false teachers like Harold Camping and many others who have misrepresented and even changed the meaning of the term, I do not even like to use the term Rapture. Instead I prefer to call it what it really is, "The Calling Out of the Bride" for the Wedding of the Lamb, and I have found that most Conservative Evangelicals have pretty much the same beliefs about:

THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE (THE CHURCH - The sum total of all true believers, OT and NT):

To fully understand the significance of expressions, such as: "I go to prepare a place for you", or "a thief in the night", or "with the voice of an archangel", or "only the Father knows", you have to know the Jewish Wedding traditions. I can highly recommend the booklet "A Christian Love Story" by Zola Levitt that may still be available at his website. Or it can be found on Amazon.com, in Kindle format for less than two dollars.

If a man was seeking a bride 2000 years ago, he had to first go to the father and make a contract or covenant with the father for what price he wanted for the bride. The Father's price to redeem the Bride the Church, was a Holy Blood Sacrifice; 1 Cor. 6:20.

The price for the Bride would be payable immediately after the bride accepted the proposal (if she accepted); the man would be invited to a family sitdown supper, where he would propose. The proposal was NEVER VERBAL. He would pour a cup of wine and set it down in front of the woman he wanted to be his Bride. If she took the cup and drank from it, she was accepting his proposal. Jesus on the night of the Last Supper poured the cup of wine and passed it to the Disciples the Foundation of the Church, choosing the Church as his intended Bride. The Disciples drank from the Cup accepting the Proposal of Jesus Christ to the Church; Mat. 26:27.

Once she had taken the cup and drank from it, they immediately became known as Bride and Bridegroom for the entire betrothal period. Before the Bridegroom would leave the dwelling place of the Bride, he would stand and make a verbal announcement, "I go to prepare a place for you." YES, the very words of Jesus, come from the traditional Jewish Wedding Proposal; John 14:2-3.

When the Bridegroom left the old dwelling place of the Bride, he would never set foot in it again until after the Wedding Ceremony in the new dwelling place. Jesus has left the old dwelling place of the Bride, Earth; and He will not set foot on it again until after the Marriage of the Lamb to the Church, which takes place in New City Jerusalem He is building for his Bride; 1 Th. 4:17, Rev. 21:2, Mat. 24:30.

ONLY his father could decide, "The new dwelling place is finished, go get your Bride." He would periodically come and inspect the progress and make the son add this and that until the new dwelling place met his father's standards, because the young man may be too anxious to go get his Bride and cut corners to get done quickly. So literally NO ONE but the father knew when the Wedding would be. Jesus said that very thing, in Mark 13:32.

When the Bride would see signs that the new dwelling place was nearly finished, she would gather her wedding party at her place, and they all had to bring lamps with oil in them, because the traditional time for the Bridegroom to come and steal the Bride away was at night, usually around midnight. They would sleep over because they were not sure which night, just that it could be soon, and very soon. Hence the parable of Ten Virgins is telling a very familiar Wedding Story that every Jew would recognize, as their Wedding traditions; Mat. 25:1-13, 1 Th. 5:2.

When the father finally told his son, "The new dwelling place is finished, go get your bride." The Bridegroom would quickly gather his Wedding party, choosing one of them to Shout and call the Bride out of her old dwelling place. They would stop just outside the old dwelling place, NOT setting foot in it, while the chosen one would Shout and call the bride out. Jesus has already chosen the Archangel to Shout and call us out of our old dwelling place, Earth; 1 Th. 4:16-18.

The entire wedding party, would all go back to the new dwelling place for the 7 day Wedding Ceremony. Most Evangelicals, believe that the One Week Wedding Ceremony, and the 70th Week of Daniel is the Same Week of Years. After the Ceremony, the entire Wedding party would return to the old dwelling place of the Bride for the Wedding Feast. Then for the first time since the Proposal the bridegroom sets foot in the Old Dwelling Place of the Bride.

What about the Old Testament Saints? I believe the Bride is the some total of all true believers of all time.
We NT saints are those who believe Jesus is the Messiah and received HIM as Lord.
The OT saints are those who believed Messiah would come and received HIM as Lord.
See it, it is the same faith, the Faith of Abraham.

Jeremiah 2:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.

Isaiah 62:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; andas the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.

Matthew 9:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And Jesus said to them, "Can the friends of the bridegroom mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)

[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

Matt 25:1 (NKJV)
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the Bridegroom.

The New Dwelling Place that HE promised build us in John 14:2, is the dwelling place every bridegroom built for his bride, in his father's house. And it will remain there, until after the Millennial Kingdom when it is lowered to the new earth still decorated from the like a bride from the Wedding of the Lamb that took place there. How do we get back and forth if we are to reign with him for that thousand years? It does not specifically say, but maybe that is why the story of Jacob's Ladder is in the Bible, to validate that those of us in our glorified bodies, that we will find that there is a way for us to reign as Priests (teachers of the children born in the KINGDOM to the 144,000 Jews), and still have our dwelling place in Heaven where our citizenship already is.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#2
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Is the Calling Out of the Bride (or Rapture) going to come first or is it the Second Coming?


The rapture (which is the Calling Out of the Bride the Church to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in the New Dwelling Place that HE has prepared for us), has to happen before the Second Coming. The Second Coming is when HE reclaims the earth, slaying all unbelievers with the sword of HIS mouth; and then sets up HIS Thousand Year Kingdom, ruling from the Throne of David. That event happens so slowly that the Armies of the World have time to move their troops to Valley of Megiddo, also know as Armagedon, before Christ actually sets foot on earth at the Mt. of Olives, Zech 14:3-4, Rev. 16:12-16, & Rev. 19:1-21. While in comparison, the Calling Out of the Bride happens so fast that it is compared to lightning flashing from the east to the west, plus at that time Christ does not set foot on earth, He only APPEARS in the air in the clouds.

Matthew 24:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Titus 2:13
(HCSB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
The main reason the Calling Out of the Bride has to come first is in this Verse:

Mark 13:32 (NKJV)
32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

That cannot be talking about The Second Coming when HE comes as KING of Kings; but rather when HE appears in the clouds as Our Bridegroom to Call out HIS Bride to go to HIS and Her Wedding; because the Days of the Antichrist’s reign are numbered and he will reign for 3 and a half years peacefully, followed by 3 and a half years of being the most blood thirsty Dictator that has ever lived.

The understanding of why the Calling out of the Bride the Church has to happen first is found in understanding the Jewish Wedding Traditions at the time of Christ. Most of the info that I have on the Jewish Wedding Traditions, comes from the late Dr. Zola Levitt. I pray this will be helpful:

False teachers frequently try to pick the day of the Second Coming or even the Judgment Day, and some even say the Church must go the Tribulation. Therefore they either skip entirely the 7 year reign of Antichrist or falsely claim we go through it too; and some even deny the 1000 year Kingdom of Jesus Christ. I totally believe in both, and I believe the Lord literally meant it when he said:

1 Thess 5:9 (KJV)
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I believe the Wrath He is referring to is:

Rev 6:15-17 (NKJV)
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

I also believe HE literally meant it when HE said:

Rev 3:10 (NKJV)
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

I also believe that because the "hour of trial" is coming upon the whole earth and those who dwell on the earth; then our "Ark" of safety is a place off this earth. I believe that place of safety off this earth is in Heaven in the New City Jerusalem that is described in Rev. Chapter 21. WHY is He taking us there?:

Rev 21:9 (NKJV)
. . . "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."

NOTE: She is in her new dwelling place in heaven.

Rev 19:9 (NKJV)
9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Eph 5:23 (NKJV)
23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

The Marriage Supper is always at the very end of the 7 day Wedding Ceremony.
So what happens at the very beginning of the 7 day Wedding Ceremony?

Matt 25:1-13 (NKJV)
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

NOTE, that it says the "Son of Man" not the "KING of Kings". He is Our Bridegroom, and HE is coming for us, but we do not know the day or the hour which is exactly the same in the Jewish Wedding Traditions. The Jewish Wedding Traditions that apply to Christ coming for His Bride the Church are as follows:

1. The man seek a bride had to make a contract with the father, agreeing on the purchase price of the Bride, which was due the day after she accepted the Proposal. The price the Father demanded to Redeem us was a Holy Blood Sacrifice, and Christ paid the price purchasing the Church as His Bride.

1 Corinthians
6:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.


2. The wedding proposal was never verbal. The man seeking a Bride is invited to a family sit down supper, after making contract with the father. During the course of the meal the man would pour a cup of wine and passed it to his prospective Bride. If she drank from the cup she was accepting the proposal, and if she set it down without drinking, she was refusing the proposal. Jesus poured the cup and passed it to the Disciples the foundation of the Church. The Disciples drank from the betrothal cup accepting Jesus Christ as our Bridegroom. Just as in any Jewish Wedding Proposal, the Couple is known as Bride and Bridegroom throughout the Betrothal Period. ( Mat. 9:15 )

1 Corinthians 11:25 (NCV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, after they ate, Jesus took the cup. He said, “This cup is the new agreement that is sealed with the blood of my death. When you drink this, do it to remember me.“

3.
The first thing that would take place after the Bride drank from the Cup, accepting the Marriage Proposal, is the Bridegroom would stand, look at his Bride, and say, “I go to prepare a place for you.” He would then leave the old dwelling place of the Bride, never to set foot in it again until after the Wedding Ceremony. According to the Jewish Wedding Traditions, he would go back home and begin to build a New Dwelling Place for his Bride either in or near his father’s home. Jesus said in:

John 12:2-3 (NASB)
2 In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

That comes straight out of a Jewish Wedding Proposal.

4. So did they set the Date for the Wedding like we do? NO, because only the father of the Bridegroom had the right to periodically inspect the New Dwelling Place and giving additional instructions to his son to add this and that, make this better, etc. Finally without any advanced warning, the father would say to his son, frequently near midnight, “It is finished, go get your Bride.”
Hence, it is a reality in any Jewish Wedding that ONLY the Father knows when the Wedding will start; because it is ONLY the Father that can decide when the New Dwelling Place is FINISHED, including the Wedding Decorations, because the Wedding ALWAYS took place in the New Dwelling Place. While the Son would go off to steal His Bride away like a Thief in the Night, the father would give orders to the servants to get ready to welcome the Wedding Guests. Where is our New Dwelling Place? The New City Jerusalem in Heaven and it is Decorated, adorned as you would a Bride, which eventually be lowered to the earth.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

5.
While it is true that NO ONE knew the day or hour that Wedding would begin, because only the father of the Bridegroom made that decision at the last minute; is was possible to see signs that the Time for the Wedding was NEAR. If the new dwelling place was outside the father’s house, the building itself was a visible sign of times, and/or by the products the servants were buying for their Master. When you saw them buying decorations for a Wedding you knew the time was near. At that time the Bride would gather her wedding party in her old dwelling place. They each would have to have a lantern with oil in because they new that the Jewish Wedding Traditions of 2000 years ago, dictated that the Bridegroom could come to call out his Bride late at night. We in a real sense are gathering the Wedding Party in our old dwelling place, “earth”, as we lead each new believer to receive Jesus as LORD. Sure we do not know the day or hour, but the signs of the times indicate that it is soon. Therefore we keep watch, expecting our Bridegroom to APPEAR in the clouds to call us out. And JUST LIKE the parable of ten virgins, ONLY those with oil in their lamps ( the Holy Spirit is the living oil in us ), get to go with the Bridegroom to the Wedding.

Mark 13:35 (NIV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back--whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.

6.
When the father tells the son to go get his Bride, he still does NOT set foot in the old dwelling place of the Bride. He actually travels to the old dwelling place of the Bribe, but stops just outside of it and calls her out. The Bridegroom is not the one that calls out the Bride, but rather he chooses a member of his wedding party to SHOUT to wake her and her wedding guests, calling her out of the old dwelling place. And they join with the Bridegroom’s wedding party and together they travel to the new dwelling that the Bridegroom has personally built, for the Wedding Ceremony. Jesus has actually chosen the archangel already to SHOUT and call us out of our old dwelling place “earth”.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words.

7.
The wedding ceremony in the new dwelling place was not like our weddings of today. They actually lasted seven days. If the guests lived close by they would go home, but if the bridegroom lived far away from the old dwelling place of the Bride, then accommodations would be made in the father’s house for the wedding guests. Each morning the Wedding celebrations would continue, with the official Marriage Supper being saved for last. Then they would travel back to the old dwelling place of the Bride and the Bridegroom we set foot again in the old dwelling place of the Bride for the first time since the Bride had accepted his proposal.

Revelation 19:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Zechariah 14:3-4 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.

I believe the Wedding of the Lamb is a Week of Years, not a Week of days, and is the very same week of years that is the 70th Week of Daniel. All 70 weeks in Daniel's prophecy are weeks of Years, but the 70th Week of Daniel is set apart from the rest; placing the Church Age between the 69[SUP]th[/SUP] and 70[SUP]th[/SUP] Week of Daniel. It is all culminated with Christ setting foot on earth, destroying all the remaining unbelievers with the sword of His mouth (His Word), and setting up His one thousand year Kingdom, reigning from David’s Throne, while the 144,000 Jews that were sealed in the mortal bodies (we will be in our glorified bodies reigning with Him); are the Jews who will repopulate the earth with mortal human beings.

Revelation 19:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20:6
(ESV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

And as John said: “Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! “
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
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#3
I am inviting an OPEN discussion on this thread to include anything in END TIMES Prophecy.

My Understanding is these Events ALL take place in or very close to that 70th Week of Daniel: The Calling Out of the Bride of Christ, The peaceful rise of Antichrist to reign over the Revived Roman Empire, Antichrist's seven year peace treaty with ISRAEL that allows them to rebuild the Temple, The Two Witnesses who lead Israel to Know Jesus as their Messiah, The fulfillment of the 70th Week of Daniel, The Pouring Out of GOD's WRATH, The Great Tribulation, Antichrist's Betrayal of that Peace Treaty, the Martyrdom of the Tribulation Saints, and the Triumphant Return of Jesus Christ to set up HIS Kingdom reigning from the Throne of David; are all difficult discuss separately, because they are all PART OF the Seven Year Period in time known as THE END TIMES.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
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#4
What good can come from such a discussion?

I pray that it can generate a sense of urgency to WITNESS, because TIME is short.
 

FireHeart

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2014
507
7
0
#5
My friend I am very impressed with your insight to this, Know that if it becomes a popular subject there will be many trying to disprove it and call it heresy but just as with jesus the unpopular truth must be told. i will say that I have been longing to marry jesus ever since he showed me being a bride, i have longed for him deeply and if I cannot have him soon i am going to fall apart.
 
Aug 8, 2014
57
2
0
#6
I don't believe there will be a "secret rapture" like in the left behind books and movies. I believe that at any moment Christ will desend with a shout and all of the dead in Christ will rise up from the graves and meet the Lord in the air. Then all of the saved living people will then be caught up to the Lord. Then we will reign with Christ for 1000 years in Heaven. Meanwhile back on earth all of the unsaved will be killed by the brightness of the Lord. Then satan and his angels are stuck on the barren earth for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years Christ along with saved will desend back to earth in the new jurewselum. Then the wicked are resurrected and satan deceives them one last time, satan and the lost gather around the city of God, but the battle is lost before it begins. I believe Jesus will rise up above the city and the lost are all shown their sins as they play over and over in their minds. Then the lost will bow down and worship Jesus. And then fire and brimstone will rain down out of heaven and the earth except for the city of God, erupts into a ball of fire and the wicked are punished according to what they have done. Those with few sins will be destroyed quickly and those with greater sins will suffer longer, and satan will suffer the longest. and as the last ember grows cool, God will recreate the world as it was before the fall of man, and we will live forever on the new earth with God.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#7
My friend I am very impressed with your insight to this, Know that if it becomes a popular subject there will be many trying to disprove it and call it heresy but just as with jesus the unpopular truth must be told. i will say that I have been longing to marry jesus ever since he showed me being a bride, i have longed for him deeply and if I cannot have him soon i am going to fall apart.

Food for thought, YES we long to hear that Trumpet and SHOUT, to Call us out, as a Jewish Bride eagerly awaited her Bridegroom. But we are still here only because we have not gathered in the last name yet, that is listed in the book of life under "BRIDE OF CHRIST", or we would already be gone. But here is the REALLY GOOD PART. One of us is going to have the Joy and Privilege leading and praying with that last person, to receive Jesus as LORD, and THEN right behind the dead in Christ, WE ARE OUT OF HERE!

As for the persecution and rock throwing, is it okay if I pray that this time they will be soft rocks?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
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#8
I don't believe there will be a "secret rapture" like in the left behind books and movies. I believe that at any moment Christ will desend with a shout and all of the dead in Christ will rise up from the graves and meet the Lord in the air. Then all of the saved living people will then be caught up to the Lord. Then we will reign with Christ for 1000 years in Heaven. Meanwhile back on earth all of the unsaved will be killed by the brightness of the Lord. Then satan and his angels are stuck on the barren earth for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years Christ along with saved will desend back to earth in the new jurewselum. Then the wicked are resurrected and satan deceives them one last time, satan and the lost gather around the city of God, but the battle is lost before it begins. I believe Jesus will rise up above the city and the lost are all shown their sins as they play over and over in their minds. Then the lost will bow down and worship Jesus. And then fire and brimstone will rain down out of heaven and the earth except for the city of God, erupts into a ball of fire and the wicked are punished according to what they have done. Those with few sins will be destroyed quickly and those with greater sins will suffer longer, and satan will suffer the longest. and as the last ember grows cool, God will recreate the world as it was before the fall of man, and we will live forever on the new earth with God.

I have NEVER understood the term SECRET Rapture. It has NEVER been a SECRET, that is what the Parable of Ten Virgins is all about. I still do not like to use the term Rapture, because of what false prophets like Harold Camping turned it into. So like I said, I prefer to call it what it actually is, The Calling Out of the Bride of Christ.

From how I learned it, you have most of the major events covered, but a few are not in the same order that I would put them in. However you made one statement that I do not think is biblical.

You said, "Those with few sins will be destroyed quickly and those with greater sins will suffer longer, and satan will suffer the longest. and as the last ember grows cool. . ."

Those with Few Sins? NO such thing, biblically:

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

So everyone is equally guilty of breaking ALL OF GOD's LAWS.
We believers are those who have in our born again spiritual new nature a compelling desire to confess any and all new sins we discover in ourselves. And when we do, how many of them are forgiven and cleansed?

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

ALL OF THEM!

HOWEVER, didn't Christ die for the unbelievers too?

1 John 2:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Does that let unbelievers off the HOOK?

Not at all:

Mark 3:28-29 (NIV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

The Holy Spirit is the ONE who takes the information about CHRIST that the unbeliever has been made aware of, and tries to apply it to the unbeliever's heart, to bring him or her to the point of receiving Jesus Christ as LORD, which means MASTER. When an unbeliever REJECTS submitting to Jesus Christ as LORD, he or she has blasphemed the work of the HOLY SPIRIT. Hence that is the ONLY sin, anyone will ever go to HELL for. The rest were paid for on the CROSS.

In that statement you also made an implied reference to this verse:

Matthew 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Question, how many parts is a human being made up of?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ESV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Right, three parts just like GOD and two of them are invisible just like GOD. Nowhere in that implied verse does it ever say the spirit of a man will be destroyed. Thus the sin of unbelief is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, and will be NEVER BE FORGIVEN and will carry with it ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

Matthew 25:46 (HCSB)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

YES the LAKE of FIRE is FOREVER.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#9
My friend I am very impressed with your insight to this, Know that if it becomes a popular subject there will be many trying to disprove it and call it heresy but just as with jesus the unpopular truth must be told. i will say that I have been longing to marry jesus ever since he showed me being a bride, i have longed for him deeply and if I cannot have him soon i am going to fall apart.

Remember you are still here, because HE has work for you to do.
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
#10
Mathew 18:3

The Greatest in the Kingdom
…2And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.…

I see myself as Gods child, if you want to see yourself as a bride, makes no difference to me..
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,168
13,564
113
#11
It is called the parousia of Jesus (coming)
WAS, IS and IS TO COME<---1 coming of Jesus
Paul, 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3<-----The Parousia (coming) of Jesus and us BEING GATHERED
a) Man of sin revealed
b) Complete apostasy (apo-hystamie) of humanity

Revelation 20
1 resurrection of the RIGHTEOUS
5th seal great number murdered for a witness/testimony of JESUS told to rest a little while from their labor until FELLOW brethren should be killed in like manner
Great number out of tribulation before throne killed by being beheaded for refusal to take mark are RESURRECTED and reign with Christ

Acts..
Disciples SEE him come with clouds, power and great Glory

Jesus
LOST religious Pharisees shall see SON OF MAN COME WITH clouds, power and great glory

Revelation
All tribes, kindreds, tongues and nations shall SEE the son of man come with clouds, power and great glory

Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13

AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS
all of the tribes of the earth mourn shall SEE the Son of man coming in CLOUDS with power and great Glory
ANGELS gather the ELECT from the 4 winds of heaven, one end of the earth to the other, from the four winds, from the UTTER MOST PART of HEAVEN AND THE EARTH with the GREAT SOUND OF THE TRUMPET

I used to believe in the imminent return until I spent the last 25 years studying intently and a 212 page book that slams it as there are too many scriptures in context that do not jive with the imminent return...

Key word to your study is Jewish TRADITION!

No offence, just don't buy it anymore!
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
#12
Idk dc, ..
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,168
13,564
113
#13
Idk dc, ..
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Yes he did and then he gave a bunch of books including the REVELATION of Jesus which includes a bunch of truth concerning the end......

And verse 9 is directed at Daniel and his ability to understand.....as far as us....1st Thessalonians 5:4 But brethren you are not in darkness, that that DAY should overtake you as a thief! The context being the resurrection/change as found in the last few verses of chapter 4.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#14
It is called the parousia of Jesus (coming)
WAS, IS and IS TO COME<---1 coming of Jesus
Paul, 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3<-----The Parousia (coming) of Jesus and us BEING GATHERED
a) Man of sin revealed
b) Complete apostasy (apo-hystamie) of humanity

Revelation 20
1 resurrection of the RIGHTEOUS
5th seal great number murdered for a witness/testimony of JESUS told to rest a little while from their labor until FELLOW brethren should be killed in like manner
Great number out of tribulation before throne killed by being beheaded for refusal to take mark are RESURRECTED and reign with Christ

Acts..
Disciples SEE him come with clouds, power and great Glory

Jesus
LOST religious Pharisees shall see SON OF MAN COME WITH clouds, power and great glory

Revelation
All tribes, kindreds, tongues and nations shall SEE the son of man come with clouds, power and great glory

Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13

AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS
all of the tribes of the earth mourn shall SEE the Son of man coming in CLOUDS with power and great Glory
ANGELS gather the ELECT from the 4 winds of heaven, one end of the earth to the other, from the four winds, from the UTTER MOST PART of HEAVEN AND THE EARTH with the GREAT SOUND OF THE TRUMPET

I used to believe in the imminent return until I spent the last 25 years studying intently and a 212 page book that slams it as there are too many scriptures in context that do not jive with the imminent return...

Key word to your study is Jewish TRADITION!

No offence, just don't buy it anymore!

Don't confuse HIS COMING as KING of Kings, with HIS APPEARING to call out His Bride.

One happens so slowly that all the armies of the earth can gather at the Valley of Megiddo to try to stop Him.

The Appearing that must happen first (seven years earlier) happens so fast that it is compared to as lightning flashes from the east to the west.

Titus 2:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#15
Yes he did and then he gave a bunch of books including the REVELATION of Jesus which includes a bunch of truth concerning the end......

And verse 9 is directed at Daniel and his ability to understand.....as far as us....1st Thessalonians 5:4 But brethren you are not in darkness, that that DAY should overtake you as a thief! The context being the resurrection/change as found in the last few verses of chapter 4.

AND still most do not understand that the 70th week of Daniel happens after the Church-age.

May I suggest Dr. John MacArthur's verse by verse sermons on Revelation and Daniel. They are free to listen to on Grace to You
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
13,411
1,217
113
64
#16
Hi Guys.... looks like the Blond is the only lady brave enough to join the gents in this thread so far. This is a very interesting take you have on the Wedding of the Lamb and the calling out of the Bride.

Don't you feel that God is starting to rally the troops? I have observed two groups forming of recent - those who seem to be willing to listen and obey and those who don't believe at all.

I mean in the very end there will only be two groups of people. Those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior and follow Him where ever he leads and those who do not accept Jesus and are lost. There will not be a denominational name on the first group.

The sad part is that there will be a lot of religious people that think they are o.k. Just look at the Pharisees and Saducees of Jesus day how they thought they were o.k. and yet so very far from Jesus and God in their self righteousness it will be the same in the end of time otherwise why would Jesus say depart from me I never knew you?.....

I believe that there are people getting ready to sound the cry for everyone on earth to get ready because Jesus is coming to repent and get ready for this marriage of the lamb you are talking about right here. Revelation 14 talks about the angels crying with a loud voice to come out of Babylon.

Revelation 14: 6-12

6 - Then the scene changed back to the final events on earth, and I saw an angel flying high in the air proclaiming one last time the eternal gospel to every nation tribe, language and people.
7 - He called out in a loud voice for all to hear, saying, "Honor God and glorify His name, for the time has come for His judgment to begin. Worship Him who created the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."
8 - I saw another angel flying behind the first one, and he, too, gave his message in a loud voice for all to hear, saying "Babylon! Confusion! There is a falling away from truth because the sea beast is working to make every nation drink the intoxicating wine of its spiritual adulteries."
9 - I noticed a third angel flying behind the first and second ones, and he also gave his message in a loud voice for all to hear saying, "Those who worship the sea beast and its image and agree to receive the mark of its name on his forehead or on his hand
10 - will have to drink the wine of God's judgment, which will be poured out unmixed with mercy from the cup of His indignation. This will take place in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 - The fire of God's judgment will not rest until those who worship the sea beast and the animal and have the mark of its name are totally destroyed."
12 - These things that I saw call for special endurance on the part of God's people who keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#17
Hi Guys.... looks like the Blond is the only lady brave enough to join the gents in this thread so far. This is a very interesting take you have on the Wedding of the Lamb and the calling out of the Bride.

Don't you feel that God is starting to rally the troops? I have observed two groups forming of recent - those who seem to be willing to listen and obey and those who don't believe at all.

I mean in the very end there will only be two groups of people. Those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior and follow Him where ever he leads and those who do not accept Jesus and are lost. There will not be a denominational name on the first group.

The sad part is that there will be a lot of religious people that think they are o.k. Just look at the Pharisees and Saducees of Jesus day how they thought they were o.k. and yet so very far from Jesus and God in their self righteousness it will be the same in the end of time otherwise why would Jesus say depart from me I never knew you?.....

I believe that there are people getting ready to sound the cry for everyone on earth to get ready because Jesus is coming to repent and get ready for this marriage of the lamb you are talking about right here. Revelation 14 talks about the angels crying with a loud voice to come out of Babylon.

Revelation 14: 6-12

6 - Then the scene changed back to the final events on earth, and I saw an angel flying high in the air proclaiming one last time the eternal gospel to every nation tribe, language and people.
7 - He called out in a loud voice for all to hear, saying, "Honor God and glorify His name, for the time has come for His judgment to begin. Worship Him who created the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."
8 - I saw another angel flying behind the first one, and he, too, gave his message in a loud voice for all to hear, saying "Babylon! Confusion! There is a falling away from truth because the sea beast is working to make every nation drink the intoxicating wine of its spiritual adulteries."
9 - I noticed a third angel flying behind the first and second ones, and he also gave his message in a loud voice for all to hear saying, "Those who worship the sea beast and its image and agree to receive the mark of its name on his forehead or on his hand
10 - will have to drink the wine of God's judgment, which will be poured out unmixed with mercy from the cup of His indignation. This will take place in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 - The fire of God's judgment will not rest until those who worship the sea beast and the animal and have the mark of its name are totally destroyed."
12 - These things that I saw call for special endurance on the part of God's people who keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus.
I agree, time is short and the stage is set for the end. Technology is here that can fulfill the end times prophesies that were not possible before, such as the whole world seeing the two witnesses laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, which was not possible before Satellite TV. We are well into the Laodicean Age, the age of lukewarmness towards Christ in the Church. For A long time I could not figure out why it was better to be cold than lukewarm, and one day it hit me. Those whose love for Christ is cold, KNOW that they are not right with the Lord, and thus they are teachable; while those who are lukewarm, think they have enough of Him without being born again and loving Him with all their heart. It is like they have $3 worth of GOD, in a brown paper bag stuffed deep in their pocket where no one can see, screaming "Don't preach at me, judge not, lest you be judged!"; if any one tries to confront their lukewarmness. They are almost totally unteachable.

Since you can see the signs of the times too, you may be interested in my post #25 on this thread about the Mark of the Beast: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97034-mark-beast-666-a-2.html#post1643698
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
58
#18
the actual wedding will be in the very end of rev.

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,

prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men,
and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,684
2,619
113
#19
the actual wedding will be in the very end of rev.

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,

prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men,
and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I think you are wrong, because, that is just when the New Jerusalem which was the LOCATION of the WEDDING, is lowered still adorned as anyone would decorate their home if the Wedding was to be held there. The Jewish Wedding always happens IN THE FATHER'S House, where the SON always builds the NEW DWELLING PLACE for His Bride. Thus the WEDDING began at least 1007 years before the New Dwelling Place is lowered to the NEW EARTH after HIS 1000 Year Kingdom is over. The Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven, the Great Tribulation, and the 70th Week of Daniel are all three the exact same Week of Years. The Jewish Wedding always ends with trip BACK to the Brides old dwelling place (Earth) for the Wedding Supper the final evening of the Week long Wedding Ceremony. THAT IS THE SECOND COMING when Christ for the first time since HE left to build the new dwelling place, sets foot on Earth, (our old dwelling place), splitting the Mt. of Olives.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,986
48
0
#20
The Trumpet Shall Sound!<br>[video=youtube;CYTQ6gpcuYA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYTQ6gpcuYA[/video]

Anyone ready to hear the trumpet?
Ready to see the face,
the nail marks in the hands,
the wound in the side?
in beauty glorified!
 
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