The Catholics and my conclusion

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Sep 16, 2014
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If the Scriptures are not the only source for the Truth then God is not God. If anything outside of God has Truths that God does not have, then God is not God!

For the Catholics to claim there are Truths outside of the Scriptures is claiming that God is powerless and NOT God. For the Catholics to claim their teachings has Truths that God does not have proves the Catholics do not believe God is God.

If God is Omniscient then God knows everything.

For the Catholics to say that God does not have all the Truth shows us the Catholics do not follow God.

There are no other sources for the Truth. God IS the only source for the Truth because He IS God!

The Catholics are a good example of what happens when people walk away from the Truth to follow the god of this World. The Catholics believe there are secondary sources for the Truth that does not come from God. If what you teach does not come from God, then what you teach is a lie from the god of this World.

Do you Catholics see how by following what the Catholic Church says that you are actually fighting against God?
 

Patnubay

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May 27, 2014
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Worship has several meanings.

The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as "Your Worship," although Americans would say "Your Honor." This doesn’t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods (in fact, they may even despise a particular magistrate they are addressing). It means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God.

Outside of this example, however, the English term "worship" has been narrowed in scope to indicate only that supreme form of honor, reverence, and respect that is due to God. This change in usage is quite recent. In fact, one can still find books that use "worship" in the older, broader sense. This can lead to a significant degree of confusion, when people who are familiar only with the use of words in their own day and their own circles encounter material written in other times and other places.

In Scripture, the term "worship" was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not.
As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone, and the term dulia came to refer to the honor that is due to human beings, especially those who lived and died in God’s friendship—in other words, the saints. Scripture indicates that honor is due to these individuals (Matt. 10:41b).

A special term was coined to refer to the special honor given to the Virgin Mary, who bore Jesus—God in the flesh—in her womb. This term, hyperdulia (huper [more than]+ dulia = "beyond dulia"), indicates that the honor due to her as Christ’s own Mother is more than the dulia given to other saints. It is greater in degree, but still of the same kind. However, since Mary is a finite creature, the honor she is due is fundamentally different in kind from the latria owed to the infinite Creator.

All of these terms—latria, dulia, hyperdulia—used to be lumped under the one English word "worship." Sometimes when one reads old books discussing the subject of how particular persons are to be honored, they will qualify the word "worship" by referring to "the worship of latria" or "the worship of dulia." To contemporaries and to those not familiar with the history of these terms, however, this is too confusing.

Another attempt to make clear the difference between the honor due to God and that due to humans has been to use the words adore and adoration to describe the total, consuming reverence due to God and the terms venerate, veneration, and honor to refer to the respect due humans. Thus, Catholics sometimes say, "We adore God but we honor his saints."

Unfortunately, many non-Catholics have been so schooled in hostility toward the Church that they appear unable or unwilling to recognize these distinctions. They confidently (often arrogantly) assert that Catholics "worship" Mary and the saints, and, in so doing, commit idolatry. This is patently false, of course, but the education in anti-Catholic prejudice is so strong that one must patiently explain that Catholics do not worship anyone but God—at least given the contemporary use of the term. The Church is very strict about the fact that latria, adoration—what contemporary English speakers call "worship"—is to be given only to God.

Though one should know it from one’s own background, it often may be best to simply point out that Catholics do not worship anyone but God and omit discussing the history of the term. Many non-Catholics might be more perplexed than enlightened by hearing the history of the word. Familiar only with their group’s use of the term "worship," they may misperceive a history lesson as rationalization and end up even more adamant in their declarations that the term is applicable only to God. They may even go further. Wanting to attack the veneration of the saints, they may declare that only God should be honored.

Both of these declarations are in direct contradiction to the language and precepts of the Bible. The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakhah. It is appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages.

For example, in Genesis 37:7–9 Joseph relates two dreams that God gave him concerning how his family would honor him in coming years. Translated literally the passage states: "‘ehold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and stood upright; and behold, your sheaves gathered round it, and worshiped [shakhah] my sheaf.’ . . . Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, ‘Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were worshiping [shakhah] me.’"

In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you (49:8)." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshiped [shakhah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent."
Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration, the kind of worship given to God.

Honoring Saints
Consider how honor is given. We regularly give it to public officials. In the United States it is customary to address a judge as "Your Honor." In the marriage ceremony it used to be said that the wife would "love, honor, and obey" her husband. Letters to legislators are addressed to "The Honorable So-and-So." And just about anyone, living or dead, who bears an exalted rank is said to be worthy of honor, and this is particularly true of historical figures, as when children are (or at least used to be) instructed to honor the Founding Fathers of America.

These practices are entirely Biblical. We are explicitly commanded at numerous points in the Bible to honor certain people. One of the most important commands on this subject is the command to honor one’s parents: "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12). God considered this command so important that he repeated it multiple times in the Bible (for example, Lev. 19:3, Deut. 5:16, Matt. 15:4, Luke 18:20, and Eph. 6:2–3). It was also important to give honor to one’s elders in general: "You shall rise up before the hoary head, and honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your God: I am the Lord" (Lev. 19:32). It was also important to specially honor religious leaders: "Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron [the high priest], to give him dignity and honor" (Ex. 28:2).

The New Testament stresses the importance of honoring others no less than the Old Testament. The apostle Paul commanded: "Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due" (Rom. 13:7). He also stated this as a principle regarding one’s employers: "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ" (Eph. 6:5). "Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed" (1 Tim. 6:1). Perhaps the broadest command to honor others is found in 1 Peter: "Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor" (1 Pet. 2:17).

The New Testament also stresses the importance of honoring religious figures. Paul spoke of the need to give them special honor in 1 Timothy: "Let the presbyters [priests] who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching" (1 Tim. 5:17). Christ himself promised special blessings to those who honor religious figures: "He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward, and he who receives a righteous man [saint] because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward" (Matt. 10:41).

So, if there can be nothing wrong with honoring the living, who still have an opportunity to ruin their lives through sin, there certainly can be no argument against giving honor to saints whose lives are done and who ended them in sanctity. If people should be honored in general, God’s special friends certainly should be honored.



Okay, so you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, but you DO declare Mary to be the NEW ARK OF COVENANT. You DO NOT WORSHIP MARY but you DO declare Mary, to be MOTHER OF GOD, you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, but you DO PRAY AND MAKE your PETITIONS AND SAY YOUR NOVENA TO HER and lastly, you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY but you do sing SONGS and hymns OF PRAISES TO HER..

I wonder how you, as a Catholic, worship Jesus?
 
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Nov 25, 2014
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If the Scriptures are not the only source for the Truth then God is not God. If anything outside of God has Truths that God does not have, then God is not God!?
I think this may be potentially dangerous logic.

Even sola scriptura does not teach that the scriptures are the ONLY source of God's truth. Sola scriptura is the idea that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

But make no mistake, before there was written scripture, there was God. Before there was recorded scripture, there was God's truth revealed to Adam and Eve, there was God's truth revealed to Noah, there was God's truth revealed to Moses. The bible itself tells us that no man has an excuse because NATURE herself reveals the truth about God. The bible also says that JESUS is the way the TRUTH and the life.

GOD is the source of all truth...not a book. The only reason that anyone values this book is because they believe it is the revelation of God.

It's a mistake to make an idol of the Bible (and our interpretation of it). Even Paul said, "Now we see but a dim reflection." Paul idolized his view of Hebrew scripture and practice, so it led him to kill Christians. It took the supernatural revelation of being blinded (something that did not come from Paul studying a book) in order for him to let go of his wrong ideas and embrace Jesus.

So, while Protestants embrace the idea of sola scriptura and they use the Bible as their final authority on deciding what is of God and what is not of God, they do not encourage the belief that the bible is the ONLY source of truth. They would be more likely to say that you must "test the spirits" based on the revelation of scripture.
 
T

tanach

Guest
In the UK the official state church is the Anglican Church of which the Queen is the present head. It has within it different
forms of worship that that range from Evangelical to a very formal and traditional style. At the traditional end of the spectrum the churches are identical to the interior of an RC church. You will find statues of the saints and Mary and the stations of the cross on the walls. The main difference is that the Pope is not recognised as its head. The Catholic Church is much the same. It is not possible to lump everyone together.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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Okay, so you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, but you DO declare Mary to be the NEW ARK OF COVENANT. You DO NOT WORSHIP MARY but you DO declare Mary, to be MOTHER OF GOD, you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, but you DO PRAY AND MAKE your PETITIONS AND SAY YOUR NOVENA TO HER and lastly, you DO NOT WORSHIP MARY but you do sing SONGS and hymns OF PRAISES TO HER..

I wonder how you, as a Catholic, worship Jesus?
By worthily eating His Body and Blood like He told us to.
Luke 1:48 says
f
or he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

Are you not of this (Christian) generation? Do you ever call her "blessed" in your hymns, sermons, or literature? Are you following the bible as you claim to?

No Mary, no Jesus. It's that simple.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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We True Christians do believe the Scriptures are the Truth and the Scriptures are from God the Holy Spirit.

If the Scriptures do not contain all the Truths like the Catholic Church teaches, then what other source has the Truth?

According to the Catholic Church its the teachings of the Catholic Church that has Truths that are not in the Scriptures.

This is very dangerous logic. As we can see the Catholic Church does teach doctrines that oppose what God clearly says in the Scriptures. The Catholic Church teaches that because Mary was "Full of Grace" she therefore had to be born without sin.

God clearly says in Romans 3:10,23 and Romans 5:12 that there is none Righteous and all have sinned.

Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

The Catholic Church also teaches that Mary is our Mediator between God and us.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Clearly God says there is only one mediator between us and God and He is Jesus, not Mary like the Catholics teach.

The Catholic Church as being a source of Truth is false because we have seen just in these two examples that the Catholic Church does not follow what God says. Instead they make up their own truths that contradict what the Holy Spirit has said.

How can we Christians trust what the Catholics say when we know for a fact they see nothing wrong with teaching the lies of the Catholic Church above the Truth from God?

This is why during the Reformation Christians were declaring "Sola Scriptura". Because they saw many lies coming out of the Catholic Church and its teachings is why we say Scriptures only.

Today the Catholic Church has fallen ever further down with its Doctrines about Mary. These Doctrines are used to hold Catholics in bondage to Mary and to the Catholic Church.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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The whole emphasis of the Catholic Church is Mary. Mary comes first in the Catholic Church with Jesus below Mary. In fact many a Catholic has told me that Jesus HAS to do what Mary says because she is His mother!

The Catholics actually believe Mary is greater than God.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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We True Christians do believe the Scriptures are the Truth and the Scriptures are from God the Holy Spirit.
Yes, so do Catholics.

If the Scriptures do not contain all the Truths like the Catholic Church teaches, then what other source has the Truth?
Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium work in harmony.

According to the Catholic Church its the teachings of the Catholic Church that has Truths that are not in the Scriptures.
There is nothing in Scripture that says all truth is confined to Scripture. Scripture is profitable, but you read it as exclusive. The meaning of the sacred authors is the inspired written Word of God, so its meaning must be searched out with some kind of authoritative guidelines or you get wacky cults. Scriptures are the primary source for doctrines, contrary to what you have been told.

This is very dangerous logic. As we can see the Catholic Church does teach doctrines that oppose what God clearly says in the Scriptures. The Catholic Church teaches that because Mary was "Full of Grace" she therefore had to be born without sin.
It wasn't necessary for God to make Mary sinless at her conception, He just chose to do it that way. Grace is what is needed to make a person righteous and holy and without sin, as any Protestant will attest. Grace saves, as any Protestant will attest. So the sinlessness of Mary flows directly from the Protestant premise of the nature of grace. Catholics did not declare Mary to be "Full of Grace" (a description and a title), an angel of God, who messaged God's word did. The angel didn't water it down, so I don't see why you have to. More details here.

God clearly says in Romans 3:10,23 and Romans 5:12 that there is none Righteous and all have sinned.

Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Rom. 3:23 - Some Protestants use this verse "all have sinned" in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But "all have sinned " only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary's case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle.

Rom. 3:23 - "all have sinned" also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

Rom. 3:23 - finally, "all have sinned," but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is "pantes."

1 Cor. 15:22 - in Adam all ("pantes") have died, and in Christ all ("pantes") shall live. This proves that "all" does not mean "every single one." This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 - Paul says that death spread to all ("pantes") men. Again, this proves that "all" does not mean "every single one" because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah).

Rom. 5:19 - here Paul says "many (not all) were made sinners." Paul uses "polloi," not "pantes." Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.

Rom. 3:10-11 - Protestants also use this verse to prove that all human beings are sinful and thus Mary must be sinful. But see Psalm 14 which is the basis of the verse.

Psalm 14 - this psalm does not teach that all humans are sinful. It only teaches that, among the wicked, all are sinful. The righteous continue to seek God.

Psalm 53:1-3 - "there is none that does good" expressly refers to those who have fallen away. Those who remain faithful do good, and Jesus calls such faithful people "good."

Luke 18:19 - Jesus says, "No one is good but God alone." But then in Matt. 12:35, Jesus also says "The good man out of his good treasure..." So Jesus says no one is good but God, and then calls another person good.

Rom. 9:11 - God distinguished between Jacob and Esau in the womb, before they sinned. Mary was also distinguished from the rest of humanity in the womb by being spared by God from original sin.

Luke 1:47 - Mary calls God her Savior. Some Protestants use this to denigrate Mary. Why? Of course God is Mary's Savior! She was freed from original sin in the womb (unlike us who are freed from sin outside of the womb), but needed a Savior as much as the rest of humanity.

Luke 1:48 - Mary calls herself lowly. But any creature is lowly compared to God. For example, in Matt. 11:29, even Jesus says He is lowly in heart. Lowliness is a sign of humility, which is the greatest virtue of holiness, because it allows us to empty ourselves and receive the grace of God to change our sinful lives.

You won't admit that "all" does not necessarily mean "every single one" as scripture clearly indicates, but you will argue that you follow the bible.

The Catholic Church also teaches that Mary is our Mediator between God and us.
False. The Catholic Church teaches that you are a subordinate mediator when you pray for someone.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Clearly God says there is only one mediator between us and God and He is Jesus, not Mary like the Catholics teach.
Must you be so annoying? That is a blatant LIE. Jesus is the one mediator between us and God, that is a Catholic teaching your borrowed from us. Jesus is the one mediator because he is both God and man. Mary is a human being. I challenge you to find a single official Catholic document in a 2000 period that gives Mary equal mediator status.
The Catholic Church as being a source of Truth is false because we have seen just in these two examples that the Catholic Church does not follow what God says. Instead they make up their own truths that contradict what the Holy Spirit has said.

How can we Christians trust what the Catholics say when we know for a fact they see nothing wrong with teaching the lies of the Catholic Church above the Truth from God?

This is why during the Reformation Christians were declaring "Sola Scriptura". Because they saw many lies coming out of the Catholic Church and its teachings is why we say Scriptures only.

Today the Catholic Church has fallen ever further down with its Doctrines about Mary. These Doctrines are used to hold Catholics in bondage to Mary and to the Catholic Church.
No, people are in bondage by prejudice, ignorance, and self hatred, the ultimate roots of anti-Catholic bigotry.

WHY THE DEVIL HATES THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
 
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epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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The whole emphasis of the Catholic Church is Mary. Mary comes first in the Catholic Church with Jesus below Mary. In fact many a Catholic has told me that Jesus HAS to do what Mary says because she is His mother!

The Catholics actually believe Mary is greater than God.
What a big fat whopper of a lie that is! The whole emphasis of the Catholic Church is the Eucharist.
The truth is, anti-Catholics are more obsessed about Mary than Catholics. They can't talk about anything else.

However scripture states that Jesus was subject to his parents.

Luke 50But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them. 51And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart.52And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

John 2…4And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come." 5His mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it."

Oh no! Better not listen to her! that's Mary worship!
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Everything you have said epostle is not from God, its from your god Satan. Its Satan who rules the Catholic Church. Its Satan who Pope Francis Worships.

We talk more about Mary because the Doctrines made up by the Catholic Church about Mary proves the Catholic Church has walked away from God to Worship and follow Mary as their god.

The Truth is only from God, not God and the Catholic Church. Its Satan who deceives you epostle into accepting the lies of the Catholic Church. Its your god Satan epostle who has blinded your eyes to the Truth from God.

God has said that among us are Tares

Matthew 13:38
[SUP]38 [/SUP] The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

You Catholics are the Tares. The ones who refuse to follow God.

Matthew 13:40
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

The fire is the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is where all the Tares will be, not in Heaven.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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The whole emphasis of the Catholic Church is Mary. Mary comes first in the Catholic Church with Jesus below Mary. In fact many a Catholic has told me that Jesus HAS to do what Mary says because she is His mother!

The Catholics actually believe Mary is greater than God.

This isn't an accurate statement. I'm sure you have reasons for believing this. It's possible that there are individuals who elevate Mary above Jesus. However, that is neither the stance nor the practice of the RCC. I think it's valuable to be accurate in our information regarding various denominations.

For example, I could easily say, "I've seen those Westboro Baptists in action. Clearly THE BAPTIST CHURCH hates the military." This statement wouldn't be accurate because: 1. There isn't one sort of "Baptist Church" 2. The actions of Westboro Baptist don't reflect, say, the beliefs of the Southern Baptist Convention and 3. Generalizing the (bad) behavior of a few isn't very logical.

There are many Protestants who examine the RCC's approach to Mary (as expressed in official documents, like the catechism) and disagree with the RCC's view of Mary. Even within this disagreement, however, they would observe that Mary isn't viewed as above Jesus. So, what I'm getting at is that it is possible for a person to be accurate about the RCC and still take issue with their doctrinal views.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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And therein lies the problem. You should be looking at the empty Cross and empty Tomb.

Actually, this is a misunderstanding of Eucharist. The word Eucharist basically means "gratefulness or thanksgiving" (ecclesiastically speaking, it's often called the "Great Thanksgiving"). Within the liturgical traditions I've experienced (RCC, Eastern rite, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian, and Methodist), all of these churches had clear references to the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.

In other words, people sometimes presume that there's a particular elevation of the crucifixion over the resurrection. Or they presume that the liturgy means we are crucifying Jesus again. Neither of these are true.

The Eucharist is a celebration of thanks. We remember the life, passion, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus and we thank him for the salvation we now experience by following his command and celebrating Communion with our fellow believers.

As an aside, if you're curious about the underlying meaning of the liturgy, there's a great book by a Russian Orthodox priest named Alexander Schmemann called For the Life of the World. It's short...a hundred pages give or take...but packed with a lot of interesting information.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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...its from your god Satan. Its Satan who rules the Catholic Church. Its Satan who Pope Francis Worships.


The Truth is only from God, not God and the Catholic Church. Its Satan who deceives you epostle into accepting the lies of the Catholic Church. Its your god Satan epostle who has blinded your eyes to the Truth from God.
You're on real dangerous ground here fellow with accusations like this!
 
Dec 1, 2014
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Or they presume that the liturgy means we are crucifying Jesus again. Neither of these are true.
Thank you for clarifying this, Poet.

I've heard the opposite so many times. I'm glad to know that's not what it means.
 
Feb 6, 2015
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Rom. 3:23 - Some Protestants use this verse "all have sinned" in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But "all have sinned " only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary's case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle.
Very well put epostle


Rom. 3:23 - "all have sinned" also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.
Lol..... I feel a little de javu reading this..... Many times I've used this same scenario over, and over again, and they just keep having trouble comprehending it. It seems to go right over their heads like a F-15 Tomcat strafing ISIS.
 

Pac tecum
 




p.s. good to have you on board. I can tell you're doing a good job defending our faith by all the feathers your ruffling! :)
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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Much like I said on your other post, there are heartfelt people in false religions, but Catholics are the blind leading the blind. There are bible verses that directly oppose what they do. To have a heartfelt spirit is not enough, Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
but according to your philosophy, if a Catholic worships in spirit and truth, they are wrong.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
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By worthily eating His Body and Blood like He told us to.
Luke 1:48 says
f
or he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

Are you not of this (Christian) generation? Do you ever call her "blessed" in your hymns, sermons, or literature? Are you following the bible as you claim to?

No Mary, no Jesus. It's that simple.
Hold on a second. Jesus was going to be born regardless. If no Mary, it would have been another virgin...Deborah, or maybe a Rachel, or a Martha. Mary was not the only virgin of those days...she just happened to be chosen of God. And yes, she was a SINNER as am myself.
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
Just like us Christians. Replace Catholic with any denomination you want.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.

Kefa






So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this. They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all. Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
 

Patnubay

Senior Member
May 27, 2014
495
5
18


No Mary, no Jesus. It's that simple.
I rest my case.

You DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, BUT YOU DO BELIEVE THAT GOD WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAVE MANKIND WITHOUT MARY.

You DO NOT WORSHIP MARY, BUT YOU DO BELIEVE THAT JESUS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAVE MANKIND WITHOUT MARY.


I tell you this: EVEN your POPE WILL disown you. This is blasphemous.

I hope Admin will notice your post.
 
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