The Catholics and my conclusion

KenAllan · Nov 3, 2015

The Catholics ARE still missing the point!

Mary was born a sinner and Mary DIED a sinner.

Romans 3:10,23 and Romans 5:12 clearly state all have sinned and all applies to Mary.

Its not that the Catholics do not understand, its that the Catholics have no use for the Scriptures. The teachings of the Catholic Church is what they follow thinking its the Catholic Church that only has the Truths.

The Catholics are like the Mormons, the JW's, the Muslims, ect. They have no use for the Truth.

Our Focus IS on God! Our Faith is based on Jesus Christ only! Salvation is a free Gift we do not work for and we have it now, not after we die like the Catholics believe.

The Catholics want nothing to do with the Truth from God. Its all about their Pride in their believing they are the only ones with the Truth. Its all about doing it by their efforts.

passing_through · Nov 3, 2015

What I have noticed is that the word 'Christ' is not in their vocabulary, the second person of the Holy Trinity is not a concept that they have grasped, it's only the meek Jesus, the baby Jesus, they are stuck on the first advent, they don't see that he is coming back as a lion.

JohnGod · Nov 3, 2015

You should be looking at the empty Cross and empty Tomb.
Rather : I should be looking at God living in me (neither on the cross nor in the empty Tomb )
Our focus should be on the action and person on the cross
Rather : My focus should be on the person (God) in my Temple of the Spirit (1Cr 9:16)

JohnGod · Nov 3, 2015

fordman said:

I will agree that the empty tomb was and is about God the Father’s love for us as His Son suffered and died for us, and then rose from the dead to conquer death not only for himself, but for those who will be saved and live forever with God. However, as far as putting our focus on the empty Cross, you seem to be forgetting something. It wasn’t an empty cross that redeemed the sins of the world. It was the cross that hung the body of Jesus Christ. It is his sacrifice and death that saves us.

This is why the crucufix is displayed so prominently in our Catholic Churches.Displaying a crucifix reminds us of the most important thing God did for us. It is the ultimate sign of how much He loves us. In 1 Cor.2:2, St. Paul says to preach Christ crucified. What better visual aide is there to such preaching than a crucifix? And in fact, Galations 3:1 actually refers to Christ being "publicly portrayed as crucified" to them (i.e. seems like they were looking at a crucifix). That’s not to say Catholics have anything against empty crosses. We use those all the time, too. I’m just pointing out that the image of Christ crucified is a very biblical one.

In closing.....The action of Love (what and who God is) is best seen in the ultimate act of love showed on the cross. The most important part of the crucifix is Jesus, not the wood. So, as to quote you....."And therein lies the problem", our focus should be on the action and person on the cross, not on the execution device as you suggest.
　

Pax Christi

You should be looking at the empty Cross and empty Tomb.
Rather : I should be looking at God living in me (neither on the cross nor in the empty Tomb )
Our focus should be on the action and person on the cross
Rather : My focus should be on the person (God) in my Temple of the Spirit (1Cr 9:16)

Utah · Nov 3, 2015

fordman said:

Trust me, my friend, I'm not forgetting anything regarding Jesus' sacrifice for us. The difference between us is that I focus on the empty Cross which signifies Jesus' suffering, death and most importantly, His Resurrection, whereas you focus on the crucifix which signifies His suffering and death. Focusing on Jesus' triumphant victory over sin and death brings with it a liberating mindset of freedom, victory, power and royalty! He is Risen; take Him off the Cross!

Mec99 · Nov 3, 2015

Fordman how can you say you have Love for Jesus Christ who is God when you have another god before you? How can you say you follow Jesus Christ who is God when you have another god before you? How can you say you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior when you have another god before you?

Do you Catholics not know that by being devoted to Mary, who is dead in the grave, that Mary is your god?

Praying the Hail Mary prayer is Idolatry. Praying the Rosary is Idolatry. Having a statue of Mary is Idolatry. Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry.

Being devoted to Mary is Idolatry and all who practice Idolatry will never Inherit the Kingdom of God.

Wake up fordman, repent of all your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, reject Mary and you can enter into Heaven with us also!

PoetMary · Nov 3, 2015

passing_through said:

I'm not sure why you have this impression. This is not even remotely accurate. The RCC is highly Trinitarian.

There are at least FIVE references to Jesus being the Christ in every single mass.
There are at least SIX references to Jesus being the one who takes away sin in every mass.
There are at least THREE references to the Resurrection in every mass.

Additionally, there is also a confession of sin to God in every mass, multiple acknowledgements that we depend on the mercy of God, a reiteration of the basic beliefs of the faith, and readings from the OT, Psalms, NT epistles, and one of the Gospels.

The idea that Catholics believe that "Jesus is still hung on the Cross," or that he hasn't resurrected, or that the resurrection isn't as important as any other part of Jesus's life is simply wrong.

The reason Catholics remember Jesus on the Cross is because WE put him there. Were it not for our sin, there would have been no crucifixion. Part of recalling Christ's death on the Cross is the idea that we keep this knowledge of our own sin ever before us. Let us not get arrogant and presume that we can handle our own sin problem...someone had to DIE for our sins...that's how problematic our sins are.

Another reason why Catholics focus on the moment of Jesus's intense suffering is because THAT is our moment of victory. Jesus's willingness to bear our sin is what gives us victory. "God made him who had no sin TO BECOME SIN FOR US so that we might become the righteousness of God." I am saved from sin because he WILLINGLY DIED for me. "Greater love hath no man than he be willing to lay down his life for his friends." The greatest display of Christ's love was in his death.

Also, the idea that Jesus on the Cross is "weak" and resurrected Jesus is "powerful" is a very worldly way of interpreting power. The supreme display of Christ's strength was on the Cross. “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness," Paul said. The ultimate expression of the sufficiency of God's grace was expressed through Jesus on the Cross. To everyone it looked like a fail...an epic fail. But it was the moment when God's heel crushed the head of the serpent.

When I see a crucifix I don't see some embarrassing or shameful part of the Christian story--something that we must de-emphasize for fear of appearing weak, or something I must turn away from because it was a fail. I see the Christ who took my sin and willingly died for me. I see the grace of God pouring out to the world.

I think that's worth remembering and celebrating...like all the time.

MikeHenderson · Nov 3, 2015

Actually the Catholics are also missing one critical doctrine in the Bible.

They are also missing "Justification by Faith Alone".

Romans 4:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,

1. Who justifies the ungodly. The grounds for God Justifying us is NOT anything we have done nor have. Ungodly people are ones who do not follow God, who see nothing wrong with sinning. There is nothing in these people for Justification by themselves. Its God who has Justified them. We can do nothing to earn Justification. Its by God only!

2. The one who does not work. Does not work is also ungodly people. Ungodly and does not work are the same thing. These are people who have never come to God and want nothing to do with God.

It is evident that the subject of Justification is looked upon as destitute of any Righteousness in himself.

Romans 5:1-2
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
We become Justified by God, not by anything we do. Its God who Justifies us.

Romans 8:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

mailmandan · Nov 3, 2015

Historically, Protestants use the slogan 'faith alone' to express the gospel so clearly explained by the apostle Paul, 'that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law' (Romans 3:28; 4:5-8; Galatians 2:16; 3:10-13, 5:2-4). An ungodly person is not freed from guilt by the deeds of the law, which includes the moral aspect of the law (because no one keeps the law perfectly). To become right with God, the sinner must believe (trust, rely) in Another, in Christ Jesus. God freely justifies the person who does not rely on his works and efforts, but wholly trusts in the Lord Jesus Christ. The believer is acquitted, set free and treated as righteous - all because of Christ.

In Romans and Galatians, the apostle Paul has this question in mind: How can a guilty sinner be justified by God? Essentially Paul answers that a sinner is justified by faith in Christ, and not by the merit of his works. That is what we mean by 'sola fide'.

In his letter, James deals with a different question altogether. There is a man who claims to have faith, yet this person is devoid of good works and is full of hypocrisy, so much so, that he insults a poor beggar with pious words without giving him anything. So, says James, can this sort of faith save him? 'What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?' No, that dead faith cannot save him because it is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith.

James is not asking whether a person is saved by faith "plus the merit of his good works." He is asking about the kind of faith that saves. He mentions two types, the real and the counterfeit. Works distinguish one from the other: 'Show me your faith without your works; and I will show you my faith by my works.' Real faith is living, manifesting itself in good works; counterfeit faith is dead, barren of works. Dead faith cannot produce genuine good works.

James asks, 'Can that faith save him?' The answer is simply this: If it is real faith, manifest in good works, yes. But if it is a counterfeit 'faith', no, it cannot save him.

No contradiction exists between Paul and James. The apostle Paul insists that the man 'who does not work but believes' in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (Romans 4:5). But that is not all. Elsewhere Paul describes the character of true faith - 'faith working through love' - Galatians 5:6.

It is also important to note that Paul and James use the word 'justification' in different senses. In the Bible the word 'justification' is often used in the legal sense. 'To justify' denotes a judge accounting a person as righteous; it is the opposite of 'to condemn' which means to declare guilty (Deuteronomy 25:1; Job 13:18; Isaiah 50:7-8; Matthew 12:37; Luke 18:14; etc.). Paul often uses the word 'justification' in this legal sense.

'To justify' is also used in a declarative sense. God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous". James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

James has this aspect of justification in mind. As we have seen, his concern is to show (James 2:18) the reality of the faith professed by the individual and demonstrate that the faith claimed by the individual is genuine (James 2:14).

Thus when James says, 'You see then that a man is justified by works,' James simply means that this man's works show that his faith is for real. Furthermore, he insists that a man is not justified 'by faith only' - because the 'faith' that is alone is dead. Profession of faith is not enough. Mere mental assent to the gospel truths is not enough. One must have living faith, and that is always manifest by good works. Good works prove that he and his faith are genuine.

A Roman Catholic commentary concurs: 'James does not here imply the possibility of true faith existing apart from deeds, but merely of the making of such a claim ... James is not opposing faith and works, but living faith and dead faith ... What was true in the case of Abraham is true universally. 'by works and not by faith alone': As is clear from the context, this does not mean that genuine faith is insufficient for justification, but that faith unaccompanied by works is not genuine.' [1]

In brief: 1. A sinner is saved by faith in Christ and not on account of his own works; 2. True, saving faith always produces good works; 3. Mere assent and empty profession of faith that is barren of works, does not save.

It is through faith IN CHRIST ALONE (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ; (Romans 3:24; 5:1) yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

James’ teaching is altogether different from the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church on justification. The Council of Trent teaches that good works are not merely the fruit and signs of justification received by faith, as James teaches. The Roman Catholic church goes way beyond that. The Catholic faithful is taught to perform good works to maintain and increase personal righteousness by which he is ultimately accounted to have fully satisfied the Law of God and allowed into heaven (Trent, session 6, chapter 16 and canon 24). Instead of demonstrating faith, his religious works done with the intent to gain merit only goes to show that he does not really trust Jesus for salvation.

fordman · Nov 3, 2015

Utah said:

Not so sure about that. You may want to consider what it says in 1Cor.1:23 where St. Paul says, "...but we preach Christ crucified..." Why does Paul preach Christ crucified? Doesn't he know Jesus has been raised from the dead? Of course he does! But, he knows that it is through the power of the crucified Christ on the cross that the bonds of sin and death are broken. As Paul says in verse 24, Christ crucified is the "power of God".

Also, as I posted before, and you failed to comment on, we have 1Cor. 2:2, where St.Paul says... "For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Now don't you think Paul knew that Jesus had risen from the dead? Of course, he did. Paul preaches Christ crucified because an empty cross has no power. The cross that bears the beaten, battered, and bloodied body of Jesus Christ, however, that cross is the "power of God". This is why, we "keep Jesus on the cross," because we, too, preach Christ crucified. The Crucifix reminds us not only of God's power, but also His love for us - giving His only begotten Son up for suffering and death.

Lol... With a statement such as this, I can only conclude that your so-called knowledge of Catholicism comes from other sources other than the Catholic Church herself. It seems to me , you are suggesting that Jesus' Crucifixion is a past event only, and displaying Jesus on a Cross supposedly suggests that we Catholics want to keep Jesus dead or continually dying as if we want to deny His Resurrection. News flash Bub....Catholics do not deny Jesus' Resurrection. If we did, there wouldn't be church on Sundays to commemorate Jesus' Resurrection, nor the celebration of Easter!

Yes, but also keep in mind, although Jesus is risen and no longer on the Cross, what Jesus gave us on the Cross 2000 years ago He continues to give us this day. Jesus gives us His passionate and unconditional endless love, His infinite mercy, His shed blood and salvation, His friendship, and new life in God. We cannot rise in Christ to new life without first dying with Christ on the Cross. Everything Jesus gives to us is through the Cross. In our Christian journey on the way Home to the Lord, we, like Jesus, our Merciful Savior and Role Model to faith in God, carry our cross. We Catholics not only preach Christ Risen, but also Christ Crucified. Again St. Paul preached Jesus' Crucified and tells us, "WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED, a stumbling block to Jews, and folly to Gentiles, but those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1Cor.1:23-24) He again says, "When I came to you, brethren, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." (1Corinthians 2:1-2) True,our Christian faith is in vain without the ressurrection of Jesus, (1Cor. 15:17) but it was the CRUCIFIXION of Jesus that paid for our sins. We cannot preach Jesus' Resurrection without also preaching Jesus' Crucifixion. For the Resurrection to have happened had to begin with the Crucifixion. How can we worship the risen Jesus without also worshipping the Jesus who died for our sins? Are you suggesting we just forget about these Scripture passages?

Do you think Jesus wanted us to look at His Crucifixion as only a past event? I don't think so. For example, when He appeared to the apostles after His Resurrection and in His glorified risen Body He showed them His wounds from His Crucifixion. (Luke 24:39-40 & John 20:20) Why would Jesus keep those wounds from His Crucifixion if He didn't want us to remember His Crucifixion and everything He gives to us through His Cross such as His passionate and unconditional endless love and infinite mercy? What would you say to Jesus if Jesus appeared to you in His glorified risen body and showed you His wounds? Would you say, "Your Crucifixion Jesus is of the past, so why should I look at your wounds?"

Okay, then let me ask you (or anyone else for that matter) something. Why do you need empty Crosses in your church and worn around your neck? Do you need the empty Cross to remember Jesus' Resurrection? Personally I wear a Crucifix to publicly preach Jesus' Crucified. The heart of the Gospel message is Jesus "DIED" for our sins and conquered death. St. Paul also says, "the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1Cor. 1:18) As for myself, I'm proud to wear my Crucifix. The Crucifix displays God's passionate and unconditional endless love and His infinite mercy He has for all of us. It is sad that some people, especially professing Christians, are offended when they see a Crucifix and have this need to criticize it.
　

Keep your eyes on the crucifix,
for Jesus without the cross
is a man without a mission,
and the cross without Jesus
is a burden without a reliever. ---Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
　
　

Pax Christi

　

epostle · Nov 3, 2015

mailmandan said:

Please provide a verse where love is ripped from faith. Borrowing snippets taken out of context from other anti-Catholics is dishonest. The Catholic Church does not, and never has, taught that good works apart from the grace of Christ is of any value. It is a big fat lie drilled into the brains of most Protestants. All good works come form the grace of Christ to begin with, so your drum is hollow, your cymbal is just noise. A person who does good should not be confused with a do-gooder.

You cannot separate faith from love, and that was the error of the so called reformers. The Council of Trent, properly understood, corrected the error, but they refused to listen.

"Works righteousness", promoted by Pelagius, was rejected and condemned as a heresy in the 6th century at the Council of Orange, 1000 years before any Protestant was born. Yet the drum keeps pounding.

Matt. 5:2-11 - Jesus' teaching of the beatitudes goes beyond faith - being pure, merciful, and peacemakers are all good works. They are acts of the will that are necessary for a right relationship with God.

Matt. 5:16 - Jesus confirms this by teaching, "let your light shine before men that they may see your 'good works' and give glory to God." Good works glorify God and increase our justification before the Father.

Matt. 5:39-42 - give your striker the other cheek, give away your cloak, and go with him two miles. This faith in action, not faith alone.

Matt. 5:44-47 - this means even loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us. Love is a good work, an act of the will.

Matt. 6:12 - forgive us our sins, not by how much faith we have, but as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Matt. 7:19-23 - just saying "Lord, Lord" and accepting Jesus as personal Savior is not enough. We must also bear the fruit of good works.

Matt. 19:16-22 - Jesus teaches the man to sell all he has and give it to the poor. It is not just about accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. We also need good works by keeping Jesus' commandments.

Matt. 22:39; Mark 12:31 - Jesus says You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love is a good work - an act of the intellect and will.

Mark 9:39 - Jesus said no one who does good works in His name will be able to soon after speak evil of Him. Good works justify us before God.

Luke 6:46-47 - the Lord asks us to do what he tells us, and that is to keep His commandments, not just "accept" Him as personal Lord and Savior.

Luke 6:20-38 - again, beatitudes, the love of enemies, giving to the needy, forgiving, bearing fruit - all these good works justify a man before God.

Luke 8:21 - Jesus says that His mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.

John 5:24 - note that "eternal life" here means sanctifying grace (the life of God within us). We can choose to fall from this grace.

John 5:36, 10:37-38 - Jesus emphasizes that His works testify to who He is. We must imitate Christ's works to be more fully united with Him.

John 5:39-42 - knowing the Scriptures is not enough if you do not have love in your heart.

John 8:31-32 - Jesus requires works even from those who believe in Him. Mere belief is not enough.

John 13:34-35 - Jesus gives us a new commandment, that we love one another as He loves us. He commands love which is an act of our will.

John 14:15 - Jesus says, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." This requires works, not just faith (and not faith alone).

John 14:21 – he who hears my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. This is doing good works for others.

John 15:8 – Jesus requires us to bear the good fruit of works if we are to be His disciples. These fruits are merits in Catholic teaching, all borne from God’s unmerited gift of grace.

John 15:10 - if you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, as I have kept the Father's commandments.

John 15:12 - this is My commandment that you love one another as I have loved you. Love is both a cause and the fruit of our justification.

Rom. 12:10 - Paul commands us to love one another. Love is a good work, an act of the intellect and will, not just a feeling.

1 Cor. 3:8 – Paul teaches that he who plants and he who waters are equal, and each shall receive his wages according to his labor.

1 Cor. 13:2 – Paul teaches that if our faith moves mountains, but we have not the works of love, we are nothing indeed.

1 Cor. 13:13 - abide in faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. Love is the greatest work which justifies us (not faith, and most importantly, not faith alone!)

1 Tim. 6:18-19 - we are to do good and be rich in good works thus laying up a good foundation for a chance at eternal life.

Titus 1:16 - people claim to know God, but their deeds deny Him. Like Jesus, it is our works that testify to our faith in Christ.

1 John 2:3-5 - and by this we may be sure that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. This requires good works, not faith alone.

1 John 3:23 - God's commandment is to believe in His Son Jesus and love one another. Belief is not enough, but good works to perfect that belief.

1 John 4:7-21 - and this commandment we have from Him, that he who loves God should love his brother also. John gives us repeated exhortations to love one another.

1 John 5:2-3 - we know we love God and God's children when we keep His commandments. We need to love which is manifested in good works and not faith alone.

2 John 6 - we must love one another and keep Jesus' commandments. We must cooperate with Christ's grace.
http://scripturecatholic.com/justification.html

fordman · Nov 3, 2015

KenAllan said:

So you believe that "ALL" those born in a vegetative state, with severe mental disabilaties, toddlers, and babies in the womb have "ALL" sinned as well? If so.... it is "you" missing the point!

Pax Christi

fordman · Nov 3, 2015

Mec99 said:

Normally Mec99, I would just by-past your posts and not give-um a second thought, but today I'm feeling generous, and have a job for ya. Now as far as your accusations posted above, this couldn’t be further from the truth. And to any Catholic that truly understands their faith, this sounds more heretical to them than to anyone.

Unfortunately, these accusations are most often used by people like yourself who dislike the Catholic Church and are usually trying to add more confusion to the issue and damage the image of the Church. If you were truly seeking understanding on the matter you/they would easily find a very reasonable truth, perhaps very different than the misinformation you/they been told in the past.

Now, remember that little job I mentioned earlier? If you like me to respond to your posts in the future, you'd first have to complete a small task for me. The task being is.....look up the words, latria,dulia, hyperdulia and their definitions. It's actually very simple semantics. When you've done that, post your results and we'll start from there. Now if you wish not to participate in this project, I'll return to ignoring your posts.
　

Pax Christi

epostle · Nov 3, 2015

He will never do it. Ignorance is bliss. (but it is never illuminating)

Patnubay · Nov 3, 2015

fordman said:

You are the one missing the point. It seems that you do not know what your fellow Catholics believe. The Catholic Church believes Mary "did not commit sin". It believes Mary was given grace that she was able to avoid all kinds of sin while on earth. Hence, Mary is sinless in the eyes of the Catholics.
It means , The Catholic Church believes that Mary is an exception to Romans 3:23.

Personally, I do not care whether Mary is sinless or not. I am tolerant on what people want to believe as long as it is not blasphemous to my God. I, myself, is not perfect in my faith. But I just wonder, if indeed she was sinless, does that mean, she didn't need her Son, Jesus, to save her from sins? Jesus didn't die for Mary's sins because Mary, His mother, was sinless. One should wonder.

Rolltide1988 · Nov 3, 2015

Division of everyone outside of Christianity. Eph 4:5, actually all Ephesians is pretty clear on a Universal Church.

Rolltide1988 · Nov 3, 2015

MikeHenderson said:

You do realize that Luther added the word "alone" right? And changes scripture in 18 different books including the takeaway of the Deuterocanonicals (or as protestants say -"the apocrypha") these are his quotes:"You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text" (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127).

fordman · Nov 3, 2015

Patnubay said:

I know perfectly well what the Catholic Church teaches. But you on the other hand, I think could be a bit iffy. I/we think that if a doctrine is implied in Scripture or logically follows from what we find in Scripture, and if there is nothing in Scripture that directly refutes it, then that belief can be considered scriptural. (i.e Sacred/Apostolic Tradition) I find it ironic that when it comes to Catholic beliefs about Mary, people tend to place demands on the evidence they will accept that are way more stringent and unyielding than the demands that they place on their own beliefs.

Taken together, Scripture and Sacred Tradition provides some very strong indications that Mary's grace-filled life precluded sin. The early Church, through meditating upon these examples and with the guidance of the apostles and their successors, came to understand that Mary was a creature whom God had spared from the stain of original sin and who, consequently, committed no sins in her life. Even many Fathers of the Protestant Reformation agreed with this.
　

I think you know my answer to that. Now how about you, do you believe that "ALL" those born in a vegetative state, with severe mental disabilaties, toddlers, and babies in the womb have "ALL" sinned? Or would you agree that these people are an "exception" to Rom.3:23?
　
　

Pax Christi

Rolltide1988 · Nov 3, 2015

passing_through said:

Are you saying that Catholics don't have the name Christ in their vocabulary? That's a ludicrous statement. We (Catholics) are the ones who believe he is actually present as the new Passover meal every day in the Eucharist. I am sorry that you misunderstood our beliefs. Thanks

Rolltide1988 · Nov 4, 2015

KenAllan said:

I am sorry that you have achieved such a misunderstanding of the beliefs of the Catholic Church. We (Catholics) Believe in the majority of what you do. We have had the same beliefs, especially scriptural understandings, since the beginning of the Apostolic faith. I suggest you study about the first century Christians and read about what they did and believed. You have made many claims. There are many resources to understand the Catholic position about the Marian doctrines. Please remember that the Catholic faith means "Universal" and that it is the Church Jesus established. What you believe came from the reformation FROM the Catholic Church in the 1500's. "Sola fide" is one of the 5 "solas" that were made up by Martin Luther himself. If they were created then in the 1500's, how could that be what Christ preached if it didn't exist in his day; and that it wasn't taught by CHrist himself? Rev 22 is pretty clear to not change the bible and he did in a total of 18 books, including the 7 books we call the Deuterocacnonicals, and you call the "Apocrypha." The Catholics (Apostles) wrote the scripture and Catholic Popes and Bishops put together the bible in the 4th Century. How do you take this? -1 John 1:8-9: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess(reconciliation) our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The text says we will be forgiven IF. Thus, the sobering truth is: Unconfessed sin will not be forgiven. And the Bible is very clear that no sin can enter into heaven (see Hb 1:13; Rv 21:8-9, 27). I would love to continue talking with you about our differences or similarities with reverence! God Bless

The Catholics and my conclusion

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JohnGod

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Rolltide1988

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