The Church needs to change!

[iamsoandso]

Im sorry iamsoandso if I was not clear but I did not make the article, I was simply quoting from a thread that I read

no dave you have not offended me at all but I apologize that I took your o.p. to be a "anonymous type of post",we here on c.c. have been through many groups who create threads with an eye-catching o.p. and then several pages into the thread we realize that they are created to lure us into traps(I realize this was not your intent). The atheist group's are the most frequent of threads of this nature,they create threads about some church/bible question and at first seem to be asking a sincere question and progress to trying to disprove the bible or the Christians as the posting progresses.

I do understand that this was not your intent,,,and that you are a christian,,,so again I apologize. I do wonder what advice was given to this person(one in the o.p.) I note that many times they are told to fake a religious conviction(lie) and as a christian would suggest that whoever knows this person(one in the o.p.) that they follow up and take note of the advice these people are giving and suggest a better approach as to their path of healing/help ect. If they are left in an environment(forum you found this on) and they are not given advice from a christian point of thinking e.g. "don't lie,don't mooch,honer thy mother and father ect.",,then they may never have the opportunity to see the christian faith. As to the parents/in-laws in this case "they are giving loving advice to their own children,and we know that if they honor their father and mother they will succeed",,,I cannot imagine all four parents turning their backs on these two people in their own family,I since that the in-laws/family have already been helping their children back and forth and are setting the ultimatums to their children thinking that it is "good advice" to the children they love and probably religion is only one of them (or else it's the only one that the poster of the o.p. is focused/placing blame on),,,

 

[crossnote]

I'm sorry to anyone who misunderstood me. I was simply quoting a thread I found. I am not an atheist. The point of the post was just to say that we should just remember to show love to All people.

Sure we are. But for how long a time? Did Christ keep feeding those who kept rejecting Him?
As I said there is no command to set up a soup kitchen in the Great Commission.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Now I agree, it was tacky to to tell the person to convert or leave.

 

[Allin]

Bro! I read your initial and clicked straight away that it was not about you being an Atheist. I sent you a PM by the way to solidify.

But, you now know what I mean about the members here on CC. They have a substantial amount of selective reading, it is as if they have dyslexia on CC.

I agree with the selective reading thing. When people are critical or judgmental, they judge things way beforehand and misjudge other things, because they view everything through their judgmental hearts. The OP was very plain; it's the religious mindset that blurs and makes it hard to understand what is being said. Unfortunately, argument among Christians is actually encouraged rather than discouraged on this site. If you stand back and look for a while, you will see that it is so.

 

[Allin]

I find the original post confusing as many others do also...

I cannot help wonder if, as I have seen uncountable times; he is being kicked out because he is not pulling his own load and using “high tides” as excuse for laziness. Is "Convert or move out." the in-laws saying you are not living like a believer. Clearly scripture says if a man won’t work don’t let him eat. Clearly davetherave said “we left religion.” Only God and Dave and wife know the truth.

I don't know why the OP is confusing to anyone really. It's a re-posting of what an atheist said, complete with quotes, and the OP's thoughts on it.

As for pulling one's own load, my friend, we've been taught the Bible wrong (I estimate 90% of Bible teaching has been wrong) for at least hundreds of years. To keep this short, let me cut to what is practical:

The Scripture does not say that a man who doesn't work shouldn't eat; it says that a man who has the ability and wherewithal to work and neglects to work should not be encouraged in his negligence (laziness) by Christians feeding him. That in turn means that if a man is not able to work for some reason, then he is not under law to work but deserves the mercy of his fellow Christians until he can work. That's what it is saying. Please read 2Thess. 3:10 again for confirmation. A few points:

1. If God willed that those who don't work shouldn't eat, why is it okay for so many Christian churches to distribute to the homeless and poor many of whom are able to work but refuse to work? That would make us partakers in their sin. It is Christian hypocrisy that tells those who don't work to get a job and turns around and feeds those who don't work.

2. Nathan Eubank, a professor of Scripture at Notre Dame Seminary, writes about this passage:

"Those who cite this verse presumably believe that the Christian Bible has something to say about how to live. If this is the case, one wonders why this particular verse should be given so much weight when there are so many other passages enjoining liberality. For example..."

He goes on to list Matt. 5:42, Lk. 6:30, Jas. 1:37, Isa. 58:6-7 which are passages that, if the Bible actually contended with itself as so many think it does, put 2Thess. 3:10 on ice. So, are we to wag our fingers at Christians who aren't Christians because they don't work (while feeding people who can work but don't in order to believe we are good people), or are we to take care of those who can't work and encourage (not cast out) those who can work but don't to do so.

 

[Allin]

However I cannot help wonder if, as I have seen uncountable times; he is being kicked out because he is not pulling his own load and using “high tides” as excuse for laziness. Is "Convert or move out." the in-laws saying you are not living like a believer. Clearly scripture says if a man won’t work don’t let him eat. Clearly davetherave said “we left religion.” Only God and Dave and wife know the truth.

Why not. More from Nathan Eubank on 2Thess. 3:10--

"Those who cite [2Thess. 3:10] presumably believe that the Christian Bible has something to say about how to live. If this is the case, one wonders why this particular verse should be given so much weight when there are so many other passages enjoining liberality. For example,

Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you. (Matt 5:42) [Note: give to everyone, not simply those who seem sufficiently industrious to us]

Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. (Luke 6:30)

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress (James 1:27)

Is not this the fast that I choose: to…share your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover them, and not to hide yourself from your own kin? (Isaiah 58:6-7).

There are many, many more similar examples. Why should 2 Thessalonians 3:10 do away with all this?"

(Full article: Why no one should ever cite “If anyone will not work, let him not eat” (2 Thess 3:10) to justify neglect of the needy. | Nathan Eubank)
​

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This is a post I saw on and atheist forum website:


"High tides have hit the lives of my wife and I. 9 months ago we left religion. 3 months ago I fell ill, was hospitalized and lost my job, and consequently had to move in with my believing in-laws.
But, after 3 months of living with our in-laws, my wife and I have been given an ultimatum. "Convert or move out." I don't know where to turn. We only know believers, our only family are believers. I'm tired of being a secular family (my wide and I) among believers.
Their help always comes with strings attached, but if in four weeks, things don't get better, my wife and I will have to leave school and work to live with my parents who live in a small town an hour and a half from here. I am thankful that they have offered to take us in, but I am afraid to be in the same situation again.

The judgments are heavy, by patience has gone thin, and we have no secular friends to turn to. We have no money and find it hard to travel 20 miles to meet with secularists.I never thought that being atheist was good enough to make someone homeless. I'm almost confused, as if I live in a dream.
I never fathomed such hate and apathy could be applied for a simple lack of belief. Where do I go? Where do I turn? We are out of the house by the 30th of this month. Help."

I understand that this Is an extreme case but this is a wrong attitude to have towards anyone. The church needs to become more loving in genral if anyone is going to take us seriously. I am not saying that everyone is like this, most people aren't, but we all must remember to love with the love of Christ.

God Bless,
Dave

in all honesty this story sounds more than a little bit suspicious...i have a feeling there is more to the story than what was posted on that forum...

there are a few giveaways...the person says he recently abandoned religion...this is often the stage when atheists tend to be most hostile towards believers... and he says he is tired of being around believers...which again indicates that he is probably hostile towards believers including his religious in laws...

the whole thing kind of comes off as kind of passive aggressive phony victimism of a person who just wants to find someone else to blame...

 

[skipp]

It honestly does seem a bit dodgy. I kind of doubt that it's real myself.