Then you disregard & deny that all humans are created by God with free will? All are created by God predestined by God as to everlasting life or everlasting death? What then is God’s purpose? Why hasn’t God created all perfect and without any necessity of free choices? Why was Satan & his fallen angles created by God? Why not just avoid evil & sin? Are you saying God makes mistakes and knows them in advance?
The Creator's Remorse: A Mystery
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• Gen 11:4 . . And they said: Come, let us build us a city, and a tower with
its top in the sky,
• Gen 11:5 . . And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower which
the sons of men had built.
Wasn't Jehovah capable of inspecting the city and the tower from heaven?
Why come down to inspect?
Well; fact of the matter is, yes, Jehovah could see the city and the tower
from Heaven, but it was His wish to see it up close and personal; to actually
visit the city and the tower as an on-site eye witness before proceeding to
tamper with their ability to understand each other's speech.
There's more:
• Gen 18:20 . .Then Jehovah said: The outrage of Sodom and Gomorrah is
so great, and their sin so grave!
• Gen 18:21 . . I will go down to see whether they have acted altogether
according to the outcry that has reached Me;
Did Jehovah really need to visit the city in person Himself before He could
agree with the outcry? Not really. The eyes of the Lord run to and fro
throughout the Earth and there is no place to hide from His spirit's prying
eyes.
Yes; the Lord could easily see from heaven that the people of Sodom were
deplorable; and no doubt He knew by means of precognition from the very
beginning of creation that they would be deplorable. But no, not good
enough: Jehovah wasn't satisfied until He visited them for Himself, in
person, as an on-site eye witness in real time before proceeding to
incinerate them and their city to ashes.
_
• Gen 11:4 . . And they said: Come, let us build us a city, and a tower with
its top in the sky,
• Gen 11:5 . . And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower which
the sons of men had built.
Wasn't Jehovah capable of inspecting the city and the tower from heaven?
Why come down to inspect?
Well; fact of the matter is, yes, Jehovah could see the city and the tower
from Heaven, but it was His wish to see it up close and personal; to actually
visit the city and the tower as an on-site eye witness before proceeding to
tamper with their ability to understand each other's speech.
There's more:
• Gen 18:20 . .Then Jehovah said: The outrage of Sodom and Gomorrah is
so great, and their sin so grave!
• Gen 18:21 . . I will go down to see whether they have acted altogether
according to the outcry that has reached Me;
Did Jehovah really need to visit the city in person Himself before He could
agree with the outcry? Not really. The eyes of the Lord run to and fro
throughout the Earth and there is no place to hide from His spirit's prying
eyes.
Yes; the Lord could easily see from heaven that the people of Sodom were
deplorable; and no doubt He knew by means of precognition from the very
beginning of creation that they would be deplorable. But no, not good
enough: Jehovah wasn't satisfied until He visited them for Himself, in
person, as an on-site eye witness in real time before proceeding to
incinerate them and their city to ashes.
_
Then the word remorse in the OP shouldn't exist, nor the word mystery. So what's God's point for this prearranged war between good & evil & prearranged pawns for the slaughter & prearranged worshipers destined for the everlasting life? Is earth's endless turmoil, murder, war & corruption simply a heavenly game,?
.
• 1Pet 1:18-20 . .You know that it was not with perishable things such as
silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed
down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a
lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the
world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
• Rev 13:8 . . And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship [the beast],
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world.
The Greek word translated "foundation" in that verse is katabole (kat-ab-ol
ay') which refers to a deposition, i.e. a founding; figuratively: conception
In a nutshell; the two passages above indicate that Christ's crucifixion was
an element of the master plan of creation from before God uttered His
famous words in Gen 1:3, which implies that His son's crucifixion wasn't an
ambulance sent to the scene of a train wreck; no, it turns out that God, by
means of precognition, was expecting the fall of man prior to any men even
existing and was all ready for it, i.e. the fall of man didn't take man's creator
by surprise, viz: His son's crucifixion wasn't a contingency, rather, the event
was scheduled, and it took place right on time.
One day when I was a little boy, my dad and I were talking about Jesus and
his crucifixion. I was under the impression that he was a victim of
unfortunate circumstances. But my dad corrected me by saying: No, that
was all planned.
I was too young at the time to comprehend the ramifications of my dad's
comment; but years later, while listening to a radio preacher explain it, I
began to realize just how profound my dad's words were-- and still are.
_
• 1Pet 1:18-20 . .You know that it was not with perishable things such as
silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed
down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a
lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the
world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
• Rev 13:8 . . And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship [the beast],
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world.
The Greek word translated "foundation" in that verse is katabole (kat-ab-ol
ay') which refers to a deposition, i.e. a founding; figuratively: conception
In a nutshell; the two passages above indicate that Christ's crucifixion was
an element of the master plan of creation from before God uttered His
famous words in Gen 1:3, which implies that His son's crucifixion wasn't an
ambulance sent to the scene of a train wreck; no, it turns out that God, by
means of precognition, was expecting the fall of man prior to any men even
existing and was all ready for it, i.e. the fall of man didn't take man's creator
by surprise, viz: His son's crucifixion wasn't a contingency, rather, the event
was scheduled, and it took place right on time.
One day when I was a little boy, my dad and I were talking about Jesus and
his crucifixion. I was under the impression that he was a victim of
unfortunate circumstances. But my dad corrected me by saying: No, that
was all planned.
I was too young at the time to comprehend the ramifications of my dad's
comment; but years later, while listening to a radio preacher explain it, I
began to realize just how profound my dad's words were-- and still are.
_
So then the Creator has no remorse, he planned everything and knew all along how everything would turn out? He created evil by plan to destroy it? Some, most are born to be killed precisely by their creator? Others are born to die and receive everlasting life? Earth is simply a heavenly game with all of its endings known before the game began?
Again, I have to ask for what purpose? Who can even enjoy a game when there's no "mystery or remorse" to how it comes out? I think you need to rethink your proposition. I find it impossible to believe unless you can present a rational purpose.
Just so you'll know none of this disagreement means anything to me relative to my faith. I believe God has & had a perfect reason & understanding it is irrelevant, I'll keep my faith.
Your brother in Christ.
Again, I have to ask for what purpose? Who can even enjoy a game when there's no "mystery or remorse" to how it comes out? I think you need to rethink your proposition. I find it impossible to believe unless you can present a rational purpose.
Just so you'll know none of this disagreement means anything to me relative to my faith. I believe God has & had a perfect reason & understanding it is irrelevant, I'll keep my faith.
Your brother in Christ.
.
• Gen 6:6 . . And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth,
and He became grieved in His heart.
• Gen 6:7 . . I regret that I made them.
Human rationale is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue
housed within a bony little skull; and not even all three of those pounds are
devoted to cognitive processes. On top of that, those three pounds are 60%
fat.
Just how smart can a pineapple-sized lump of fatty wrinkly flesh really be
compared to the rationale of a supernatural entity with enough intelligence
to invent, design, and construct a fully functioning cosmos with all of its
forms of life, matter, and energy?
• 1Cor 3:20 . .The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are empty.
Well; that's certainly not a very flattering evaluation. It's as much as saying
that, in God's opinion, the smartest among humanity basically consists of air
heads; and if that's His evaluation of the best and brightest, then where
does God rank those of us with an average IQ?
_
• Gen 6:6 . . And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth,
and He became grieved in His heart.
• Gen 6:7 . . I regret that I made them.
Human rationale is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue
housed within a bony little skull; and not even all three of those pounds are
devoted to cognitive processes. On top of that, those three pounds are 60%
fat.
Just how smart can a pineapple-sized lump of fatty wrinkly flesh really be
compared to the rationale of a supernatural entity with enough intelligence
to invent, design, and construct a fully functioning cosmos with all of its
forms of life, matter, and energy?
• 1Cor 3:20 . .The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are empty.
Well; that's certainly not a very flattering evaluation. It's as much as saying
that, in God's opinion, the smartest among humanity basically consists of air
heads; and if that's His evaluation of the best and brightest, then where
does God rank those of us with an average IQ?
_
.
The Hebrew word translated "regret" is somewhat ambiguous. Though it
includes feeling rue for making a mistake, it also implies taking an
unpleasant course of action that you know will cause people harm and/or
inconvenience though for sure the course is the wise thing to do.
For example: God was poised to destroy the city of Nineveh lest they
changed their ways. Within that city were 60,000 underage children, and
numbers of beasts, that would've been collateral damage had not the adults
heeded Jonah's preaching.
God impressed upon Jonah that He would not take pleasure in destroying
those children, nor those beasts. However, God would have done so because
it was the wise thing to do.
I cannot even begin to imagine how it was wise for God to go ahead and
create mankind while knowing well in advance by means of precognition that
they would go bad and He would have to kill off just about everything--
birds, beasts, men, women, and underage children too.
It's a mystery. People brighter and better educated than I have thus far
been unable to figure it out: they make excuses for God instead of coming to
grips with the reality that we're all little more than toys created for His son's
amusement.
• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.
_
The Hebrew word translated "regret" is somewhat ambiguous. Though it
includes feeling rue for making a mistake, it also implies taking an
unpleasant course of action that you know will cause people harm and/or
inconvenience though for sure the course is the wise thing to do.
For example: God was poised to destroy the city of Nineveh lest they
changed their ways. Within that city were 60,000 underage children, and
numbers of beasts, that would've been collateral damage had not the adults
heeded Jonah's preaching.
God impressed upon Jonah that He would not take pleasure in destroying
those children, nor those beasts. However, God would have done so because
it was the wise thing to do.
I cannot even begin to imagine how it was wise for God to go ahead and
create mankind while knowing well in advance by means of precognition that
they would go bad and He would have to kill off just about everything--
birds, beasts, men, women, and underage children too.
It's a mystery. People brighter and better educated than I have thus far
been unable to figure it out: they make excuses for God instead of coming to
grips with the reality that we're all little more than toys created for His son's
amusement.
• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.
_
That is not logical at all because you, the created, is trying to judge God, the creator. That doesn't make any sense. Who are you to judge God? Let alone you'd be committing the sin of pride by trying to elevate yourself to his level!
Also, the irony of the matter is that your judging facilities came from God, so how could you use them to judge God himself who gave them to you!?!
The only thing the created oughta do is worship the creator in reverence. Anything else is illogical folly.
The Lord Giveth & The Lord Taketh Away. We oughta feel very small, meek, and humble with that knowledge in mind, knowing we could perish at any moment, and appreciating that we came into existence in the first place, regardless of any suffering.
God is all knowing. People who said otherwise blasphemed as they thought they could know the answer to everything (again, the sin of pride). There are things that God only knows and we must be humble and meek enough to accept it.
Godspeed.
Also, the irony of the matter is that your judging facilities came from God, so how could you use them to judge God himself who gave them to you!?!
The only thing the created oughta do is worship the creator in reverence. Anything else is illogical folly.
The Lord Giveth & The Lord Taketh Away. We oughta feel very small, meek, and humble with that knowledge in mind, knowing we could perish at any moment, and appreciating that we came into existence in the first place, regardless of any suffering.
God is all knowing. People who said otherwise blasphemed as they thought they could know the answer to everything (again, the sin of pride). There are things that God only knows and we must be humble and meek enough to accept it.
Godspeed.
.
When I was old enough to do some of my own thinking; I asked my mother
this question: If God already knows everything that I will ever do my whole
life; then how do I have free will?
Mom was stumped; she didn't know.
Well, the thing is, as I found out later; precognition doesn't eo ipso include
the element of predetermination.
Yes, God already knew well in advance before I was even born how my life
would turn out. But the determination of my life has been pretty much left
up to me, and I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself
numerous times as He watched me make one mistake after another, and
commit sin after sin in thought, word, and deed. And just as He has
regretted the creation of all others; He has, at times, equally regretted my
existence too.
_
When I was old enough to do some of my own thinking; I asked my mother
this question: If God already knows everything that I will ever do my whole
life; then how do I have free will?
Mom was stumped; she didn't know.
Well, the thing is, as I found out later; precognition doesn't eo ipso include
the element of predetermination.
Yes, God already knew well in advance before I was even born how my life
would turn out. But the determination of my life has been pretty much left
up to me, and I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself
numerous times as He watched me make one mistake after another, and
commit sin after sin in thought, word, and deed. And just as He has
regretted the creation of all others; He has, at times, equally regretted my
existence too.
_
In my world, if God is all knowing and I believe he is, that’s a power beyond all human understanding, and this thread is proving it is. Thereby not understanding such powers we fail to consider the real possibility that God’s powers include turning on and off his powers for particular purposes. I believe God created all human life and apparently the heavenly host also with the power of a free will. Thereby the creator in that process had to set aside his power of all knowing. That of course explains God’s remorse at his creation and his sacrifice of his Son to atone for his creation and bring the believers to his bosom.
I can’t see God as a heavenly game player or wanting to create his fellow inhibitors of the universe as robots of body or mind. I believe God wants his creations to have the willingness to mentally love and respect him without pre-programming, I believe God being all loving needs the company of others to love, and that’s why he created man kind and his heavenly host in his own image and with the power of free choices. Why would God want pre-programmed minds and hearts to love, and expect them to love and respect him because he pre-programmed them accordingly? Where’s the purpose in that?
I can’t see God as a heavenly game player or wanting to create his fellow inhibitors of the universe as robots of body or mind. I believe God wants his creations to have the willingness to mentally love and respect him without pre-programming, I believe God being all loving needs the company of others to love, and that’s why he created man kind and his heavenly host in his own image and with the power of free choices. Why would God want pre-programmed minds and hearts to love, and expect them to love and respect him because he pre-programmed them accordingly? Where’s the purpose in that?
Intelligent deduction/observation. I think I agree, except about this part:
“I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself
numerous times as He watched me make one mistake after another, and
commit sin after sin in thought, word, and deed. And just as He has
regretted the creation of all others; He has, at times, equally regretted my
existence too.“
God may fully know us, but we cannot really know what God is thinking.
Godspeed.
“I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself
numerous times as He watched me make one mistake after another, and
commit sin after sin in thought, word, and deed. And just as He has
regretted the creation of all others; He has, at times, equally regretted my
existence too.“
God may fully know us, but we cannot really know what God is thinking.
Godspeed.
.
FAQ: The creator depicted in the Bible appears to be a despotic fiend
capable of walking over people's bones to get what He wants. How then can
Christians expect anyone of a sound mind to admire their God and become
His loyal followers?
A: The people of North Korea may not harbor much genuine admiration
and/or affection for Kim Jong-Un, but they have the good sense to respect
him because the consequences for disrespecting that country's head are
pretty severe in some cases; and for North Koreans foolish enough to stand
up to Kim and express their dissent; those people's lives are as good as
over; if they're not indeed dead.
Jesus ended one of his parables with the words: "But those enemies of mine
who did not want me to be king over them-- bring them here and kill them
in front of me."
I don't know whether that parable is speaking of Jesus or of his superior, but
either way: those are some pretty harsh words to be coming from someone
depicted in carols as a sweet little babe away in a manger.
_
FAQ: The creator depicted in the Bible appears to be a despotic fiend
capable of walking over people's bones to get what He wants. How then can
Christians expect anyone of a sound mind to admire their God and become
His loyal followers?
A: The people of North Korea may not harbor much genuine admiration
and/or affection for Kim Jong-Un, but they have the good sense to respect
him because the consequences for disrespecting that country's head are
pretty severe in some cases; and for North Koreans foolish enough to stand
up to Kim and express their dissent; those people's lives are as good as
over; if they're not indeed dead.
Jesus ended one of his parables with the words: "But those enemies of mine
who did not want me to be king over them-- bring them here and kill them
in front of me."
I don't know whether that parable is speaking of Jesus or of his superior, but
either way: those are some pretty harsh words to be coming from someone
depicted in carols as a sweet little babe away in a manger.
_
.
FAQ: Is it safe to assume that God's ways are always right even when they
sometimes appear totally wrong?
A: Yes; and here's why:
When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his wife obtained an intuitive
sense of right and wrong (Gen 3:22). Unfortunately, the sense they obtained
was unreliable due to the fact that it was a product of the Serpent's
handiwork instead of their divine benefactor's.
The Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil/Satan (Rev 12:9) --has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human
mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
That no doubt explains why so many unbelievers are put off by what they
perceive as Christianity's God making mistakes and/or acting like a
demented fiend.
_
FAQ: Is it safe to assume that God's ways are always right even when they
sometimes appear totally wrong?
A: Yes; and here's why:
When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his wife obtained an intuitive
sense of right and wrong (Gen 3:22). Unfortunately, the sense they obtained
was unreliable due to the fact that it was a product of the Serpent's
handiwork instead of their divine benefactor's.
The Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil/Satan (Rev 12:9) --has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human
mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
That no doubt explains why so many unbelievers are put off by what they
perceive as Christianity's God making mistakes and/or acting like a
demented fiend.
_
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