the crucifixion of you, in Christ.
- Thread starter followjesus
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
if the flesh is already gone, why is paul instructing them to put it to death? why is paul making unmistakable connection between all these ACTIONS and the 2 natures? read the op friend. why do we have the gospel. paul says crucify the flesh and you will live. how does that not ring to you? Jesus said " I'm going to the cross, if you would be mine, you must lay your self down and follow me" then you look at His teachings and realize he teaches "laying yourself down" and truly Loving others as God approves.
if the flesh nature is Gone and dead, then a person would be "sinless" we stand in the Grace of Jesus Christ as we follow. we don't have to be perfect to be perfect we need to be forgiving of all offense, that's what Keeps us in forgiveness as we follow Him to the cross. some folks don't have a lot of selfishness ther just naturally good folks. they have an easier path because the greedy is who needs to lay down greed, the sexually immoral are who needs to lay down lust ect. it doesn't say " God crucified your flesh" it says "you go crucify your flesh: or " you must rid yourselves of these things" or " put to death therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature" its an action placed on the believer and we already have all we need to accomplish it. the gospel.
if a person is truly holding Jesus as their Lord, they are saved. but as all things in the word, true sincerity is absolutely necessary. the world wants to just do as little as possible for the Lord and say its a violation of Grace to go to service. Jesus demands all of us. full commitment for the man who suffered and died so that we can died and Live. its not about being perfect under the law, but following Jesus way. Jesus saves, nothing else
if the flesh nature is Gone and dead, then a person would be "sinless" we stand in the Grace of Jesus Christ as we follow. we don't have to be perfect to be perfect we need to be forgiving of all offense, that's what Keeps us in forgiveness as we follow Him to the cross. some folks don't have a lot of selfishness ther just naturally good folks. they have an easier path because the greedy is who needs to lay down greed, the sexually immoral are who needs to lay down lust ect. it doesn't say " God crucified your flesh" it says "you go crucify your flesh: or " you must rid yourselves of these things" or " put to death therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature" its an action placed on the believer and we already have all we need to accomplish it. the gospel.
if a person is truly holding Jesus as their Lord, they are saved. but as all things in the word, true sincerity is absolutely necessary. the world wants to just do as little as possible for the Lord and say its a violation of Grace to go to service. Jesus demands all of us. full commitment for the man who suffered and died so that we can died and Live. its not about being perfect under the law, but following Jesus way. Jesus saves, nothing else
Hey PaulMack, I never would say salvation is by confessing Jesus is Lord. That is the opposite of what I was conveying. Go back and read my post. I was posting about a translation issue. Most newer versions have "confess with you mouth Jesus is Lord." I believe that is wrong concerning the gospel of Christ. It is all about believing the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins. God chose us? Is this a Calvinist statement? God chose Jesus Christ from the beginning to bring about the salvation of mankind and those who put their trust in him would be saved. No individual but an entity.
:8) as it is written
:read:
Juan: 20. 27. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
~;> so as it is written
:read:
Awit: 22. 16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
:ty:
godbless us all always
:read:
Juan: 20. 27. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
~;> so as it is written
:read:
Awit: 22. 16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
:ty:
godbless us all always
W
I haven't read this whole post but I seen some Romans scripture and had to say this first how I love thy Lord Jesus Christ and how he uses Paul to tell the Romans in Chapter 10 what does it take to be saved Paul just second hands everything Jesus said and did in the flesh in all four of the Gospels. Knowing Jesus is Lord and believing His death, burial, and resurrection and not just say those words being empty in vain "lip service" but believing them alot of people use cheap grace by just using this one scripture and not reading the whole chapter. They use this one liner verse 13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" which is true but forget to read about verse 14 [SUP] [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And Paul goes on to show that first hand how God used him in verse 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! The name of Jesus is used in vain "empty words" lip service by a lot of people when the heart isn't there just like all of the other names of God mankind does that all the time. Jesus talks about those who tell him Oh Lord didnt we do many things in your name oh Lord but he tells the workers of iniquity to depart from him he never knew them because they are vain lip service no heart. I encourage everyone read Romans 10 verses 9 through 15 so that none may use the Lords name in vain with cheap grace using verse 13 by itself. All glory go to The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and none to me or anyone else O Lord who is gracious and loving to all believers and the unbelievers who don't realize it. I urge all to pray for those who are your worst enemies that they may come to Christ that they either not be a vain conceited brother or sister and repent or be blessed for speaking the truth on here and pray that God shall make a example of all them all that are wrong believer or unbeliever I will not pick a persons side the Lord says favoritism is a sin James 2:9 Jesus said you either are for him or against him Jesus is the side I choose. I hope no one shall ever trust themselves that includes me but Him on this matter putting Jesus first and self last. Let us as the body lean on the Rock for understanding. I ask that would all of you pray to The Holy Spirit that He guides the body in scripture all that is needed here and give it to us all so that the Word is rightly divided but we all have patience of when He decides this and not when any of us think so. I hate heresy and false doctrine but my brother Paul was once a false teacher a Pharisee so I learnt to not hate the person but their false doctrine and sin. So if you hate the person look at Paul and how Jesus changed him he went totally the other way from his past finishing the race and getting to see Jesus at the throne on good terms and not bad with his old ways. And if person on here is blinded by Satan not knowing the truth pray their eyes are opened and ears too by Jesus Christ because none of us are worthy myself included but saved by a loving Lord who came and defeated sin in the flesh so our spirit shall live we all die once but does any Christians on this board want anyone to die the second death in the lake of fire? I hope not? I know apart from Jesus I can do nothing as my brother Paul has spoken before I am gracious to know Gods Spirit dwells in me and gives me the gifts that He chooses to do His will and not mine so I can give him glory not myself that I may bless others just as all other believes who have the same Spirit and he gives them their gifts so they too glorify The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I beg all of you don't trust your heart it can deceive you like brother Jeremy said in Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Let us all give it to Jesus he will take care of the flock in His time and way. When Paul spoke these words it is so true I Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. Oh brethren and sisters have love in everything you do but examine what you do with what Jesus did and said be a blessing to others as he did all of us. Selfless love not selfish. And one last thing when you get on here and argue is it valid and giving glory to God or in vain grieving the Holy Spirit I don't know a lot about the Bible but I do know how to love someone and be humble and gentle but there comes a time to stop and do as Jesus said don't cast your pearls amounts the swine it is forbidden they will trample your pearls and you next.
Something is...wrong here, in my opinion.
I can't quite put my finger on it...
His teachings do not crucify my sinful nature.
This has not been my experience.
They make me super aware OF my sinfulness.
I'll try to explain.
Just because I know that anger and resentment are murder, does not mean I can stop this in myself. I struggled for years, knowing it was murder, was sin, became increasingly aware of it, wanted to stop, but could not.
not unless we follow Jesus by "laying down our selves, picking up ouir cross and following His commands. that's what paul is saying when he commands " you must put to death therefore whatever belongs to your earthly nature" and " those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh"
we are called to follow Jesus by laying down self, and taking up Jesus our nature is dead, His is Life. that is the gospel and the power of the cross. spirit and flesh are one. the flesh is ruled by the spirit. you aren't obligfated to believe as I do. opinions aren't my interest here. I believe this to your comment " with God ALL things are possible>
john 5:25-29 "Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."
we are meant to hear Jesus and follow he is saying " come , follow me" it doesn't matter all these arguments and opinions. Gods word is true, not 1 scripture or 2 but it all comes together to make a message that is very clear, when you are looking from the gospel at all the rest of it. Know Jesus
you are supposed to "pluck out the eye" if it causes you to sin. for instance if lust has taken root in my heart how do I pluck out the eye? am I watching porn? am I fantasizing about someone? we are called to remove whatever is causing the heart issue. the thoughts . " make a tree good, and its fruit will be good, make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad" Jesus is meant to make you aware of your sin when you stand in His light and see His word. in His word you see Jesus. so you become aware of whats in you. if its greed, he teaches " you cannot serve both God and money" this makes us aware that if money drives us, we follow the command to give to the needy. we practice Jesus commands in our life. it is not easy, but the result is you see the joy the blessing in giving this changes that greed by making us aware that it is evil, and by obeying the solution which is Love.
if I am unforgiving and hold grudges and have ditain for others, I see " forgive and you will be forgiven, do not and you will not" this makes me aware of the unforgiveness in me, and commands that I begin to forgive. as I practice forgiveness daily, the unforgiveness dies. this all only works because I believe Jesus is who He says he is, I believe He is who God says he is. it works or I would never tell others. if I'm not a greedy person, the command to rid my life of greed, doesn't really convict me, because I am already giving, if I have no lust issues, that teaching wont convict me ect. Jesus commands are very personal and truly judge the attitudes of the mind and heart and create a new person with new thoughts, desires and because of that, new actions that aren't a burden, but just Who he is making us to be.
it is the power of the Gospel and only works by Faith in Jesus Christ. Just believe Him and don't worry about where you heard this, just go to your own bible, learn what He is saying and take it as the truth, it is true. but you need to go see if its there in the gospels see if hes teaching his followers, see if hes saying " don't merely hear me, but do what I'm teaching you." faith in Jesus will move the believer because we believe in Him we trust His teachings enough to follow where He leads. this process does indeed put sin to death and is the power of the gospel to re create sinners
that is wisdom bro. the most important day of my life was years ago when after years of studying the word, believing it......I surrendered. "Lord Take my life it is yours do something of worth in your eyes, I submit apart from you I am worthless and can do nothing ect." really good comment thanks for sharing that insight God bless you
a lot of really great stuff in this comment. thank you and God bless you for taking the time to share that. the only part I cant accept for myself, is I don't know who the swine are, its not in me to say thos persons not worthy to hear Gods truth, or that person is swine, or ect....so I suppose if the swine try to trample on me personally, ill get up from the mud and go tell someone else about the Lord Jesus and His gracious and good Love. I once was identified as swine myself, I'm glad someone tossed a pearl my way
the "flesh" is a nature, it is the sinful human nature.
read all that paul says of putting to death the misdeeds of the body and you will live actually ill grab a few, but realize paul is saying put to death your sinful nature, he isn't just making cool sounding words, hes saying you must rid yourselves of these things ect,
romans 8:13 "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." puit to death the MISDEEDS of the body, the actions or "deeds"
colossians 3:5-10 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[SUP] [/SUP]You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. "
again here put to death the actions....
ephesians 5:1-6 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[SUP] [/SUP]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
pauls theme " crucify the sinful nature by walking in the way of laying yourselves down as Jesus did. you see all the actions that are to be put to death? and notice how paul puts it like Jesus, greed, sexual immorality, impurity ect. that is our answer and that is what the commands of Christ are all about. laying down self, picking up the gospel and following Jesus to the cross. you don't need to be anything great when you come to Him he will accept the worst of us, but when you come to Him, you follow where He leads. through His words we come to know Jesus. like anyone words and actions. in the gospel, we have His actions and words. we know that His words are spirit and life. when you are studying the gospel, we need spiritual thinking. as pauls writings spiritual thought, we run into trouble when we are flesh reading spiritual words they are confusing and we see them in bits and pieces.
so when we read the bible without the spiritual thinking, we see one scripture, and what is actually being said gets lost. so our flesh sees romans 8:1 and clings to that, omitting the rest of the chapter but its the message we are looking for, there is a spiritual message in the word. we don't learn it by plucking a line out here and finding another there that seems to say the same, we see and hear the message through the spirit of Jesus, which is found in the gospel, His words.
to be in Christ is to simply have true Faith in Jesus, the faith that hears his word and does what He himself is saying " do this" oif we believe He is Lord, we will do what the Lord is saying to do. that's truly how it works. pauls clearly saying putto death the old nature of sin, and practice the new nature of Jesus. this is accomplished through hearing and obeying the Lords commands or if you prefer teachings of what to do. Jesus wasn't just talking, there is purpose in every word he spoke, and it connects perfectly with pauls epistles as well as the others. maybe the issue is that you don't believe that the power of Jesus is able to put to death that old nature? if that is the case, feed on the word, but believe it it is true
[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
you actually are saved by the TRUE sincere confession that He is Lord. and it does require faith in Jesus, its the ONLY way. to say that grace even exists without Jesus is a herecy. " for the law came through moses, grace and truth through Jesus Christ." its just mind boggling to me how any Christian is willing to make Jesus words not the gospel. its like I accept His suffering, but what He said, naw, that requires me to honor Him...grace grace. just offensive as it should be to anyone who Loves Jesus.
by the confession He is Lord FROM THE HEART, meaning sincerity, faith I do truly believe He is Lord, the point is if a person believes that Jesus is Lord, then when they hear him saying "do this" they will, simply by the meaning of Lord. if He is Lord, you will obey. that is how that confession works through faith. He died for you all because of Grace, it is a distortion of a sickening kind to accept His death and refuse to acknowledge all He said to give you life. Grace is not God, it is what Jesus the Lord came with, lavished upon you all to forgive sins according to the law of sin and death. when yu face God, if you keep to this deception, you will be standing before the Father of the one who died for you, will you then explain that his words meant nothing to you? terrible way to perceive Gods Son. just a scapegoat rather than your Lord.