The Dangers Of No More Hymnals?

[1still_waters]

You're missing the point of this post if you think this is about worship styles. Please read first. Thanks.

I was listening to Issues Etc.. They were discussing Luther and worship. Something they said made me think.

Is there anything dangerous about not using a hymnal anymore?

Churches used to sing out of hymnals during worship.
Hymnals were compiled by learned people who knew their doctrine, and Bible.
The chances of something crazy getting in was probably low.
This meant Christians sang substantive Bible based songs every Sunday.(Not saying there may not have been a blemish here or there.)

But now days churches don't use the hymnal.
Rather they're almost left to the whims of what Christian radio deems as good worship.

I mean many churches sing the newer stuff.
The newer stuff really isn't run through the rigors of scrutiny like the old hymnals.

If popular Christianity and Christian radio views a song as "good", then it probably has a good chance of being sang in our churches.

But the standard for "good" may be more about popularity, than it is about right/wrong/correct/Biblical.

I'm not saying everything in hymnals was perfect.
But at least it went through stronger scrutiny than today's popular worship songs that simply have to pass through the rigors of human favor and popularity.

So is there a danger to leaving the majority of our worship to the whims of what is deemed as popular and good by modern Christian radio?

What happens if Christians get a life time diet of worship from songs that haven't been rigorously tested and tried like the hymns used to be tested? Do we leave ourselves open to some severe error?

 

[zone]

hurry diggs!
it's starting!

 

[1still_waters]

And I'm not saying we all have to sing out of hymnals now.
But surely the songs we sing in church need to go through tons more scrutiny and testing.
Maybe compiling songs that have stood the test would be a good thing.
I'm not saying we have to sing stuff that's older than 200 years old.

Right now most modern worship songs simply have to pass through the rigors of popular Christian radio/culture opinion of what sounds good or feels good, or has a snappy beat.

Some songs are considered good if you get into some emotional release by saying the same words over and over and over until your endorphins release in your brain and give you a biological rush of emotions that feel really, really good, nice and neato maaaaan!

 

[1still_waters]

And you know, it's ironic that modern songs sang in church aren't run through scrutiny from learned Christians who know their Bible well. Why is it ironic? Because the same ones making use of these songs are the same ones who trumpet "the five fold ministry" which actually involves making use of gifted teachers who can filter through stuff for the church!

 

[Gifts]

The old fashioned hymns are not really an important part of worship in my opinion. Singing itself however, I think is an important part of worship. The newer hymns are more melodious and rhyme more, and it's just easier for me to put my heart into singing that way. There is something special about using music to praise and pray to God with other people. Everyone adds a little part of themselves, their voice and their heartfelt emotions, and it becomes a new and wonderful thing.

I went to a new church the other day to try it out, and the music was Christian rock. I found it impossible to sing to, and the lead singer guy was doing fancy voice techniques like that warble sort of sound. When people get fancy like that, it's hard to build off because you can't tell when exactly he's going to alter the tune or pitch of his voice, you just can't match it. So there is such a thing as taking it too far. Piano and a choir is plenty for me. If you want to listen to christian rock fine, I have no problem with that, but I wish they would leave it out of worship.

 

[1still_waters]

The old fashioned hymns are not really an important part of worship in my opinion. Singing itself however, I think is an important part of worship. The newer hymns are more melodious and rhyme more, and it's just easier for me to put my heart into singing that way. There is something special about using music to praise and pray to God with other people. Everyone adds a little part of themselves, their voice and their heartfelt emotions, and it becomes a new and wonderful thing.

I went to a new church the other day to try it out, and the music was Christian rock. I found it impossible to sing to, and the lead singer guy was doing fancy voice techniques like that warble sort of sound. When people get fancy like that, it's hard to build off because you can't tell when exactly he's going to alter the tune or pitch of his voice, you just can't match it. So there is such a thing as taking it too far. Piano and a choir is plenty for me. If you want to listen to christian rock fine, I have no problem with that, but I wish they would leave it out of worship.

Yeah my post isn't really about styles. It's more about the substance of the songs, and their lack of being put through rigorous testing like hymnal songs were tested.

 

[Gifts]

I see, well I haven't really sung any that really jumped out at me as being contrary to scripture or wrong in some way. I think in the end it should be pretty easy to write a song and make sure it isn't blasphemous or anything. That's not to say they shouldn't be carefully written and scrutinized though.

Maybe the people who write them and the pastors and choirs who sing them scrutinize them too. In the end if you think a certain song is inappropriate you should bring your case before the pastor and choir director.

 

[Ariel82]

I thought the worship leaders and the band would test to see if the songs are scripturally sound. Its it the job of the pastor to approve of new songs to be sung? or have a group of people who would oversee the selection of the music for worship?

 

[SeanS]

I see, well I haven't really sung any that really jumped out at me as being contrary to scripture or wrong in some way. I think in the end it should be pretty easy to write a song and make sure it isn't blasphemous or anything. That's not to say they shouldn't be carefully written and scrutinized though.

Maybe the people who write them and the pastors and choirs who sing them scrutinize them too. In the end if you think a certain song is inappropriate you should bring your case before the pastor and choir director.

Here's the problem, modern day worship (for the most part) is so theologically nutritionally deficient its unbelievable. John 4:24 tells us to worship God in 'spirit and truth', the spirit is the word of God itself (John 6:63) and thus our worship must be deep in scriptural theology. And worshiping in truth simply means that we must be living consistantly with what we are singling.

Now, the practical implications of having theologically deficient music are threefold:

1) It doesn't do God justice, simple lines such as 'God in my waking, God in my sleeping' really dont speak of the specific nature of God that makes him different to all the other false God's.

2) It doesn't edify the congregation, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:26 that when we are gathered together 'all things should be done for edification'. When a song isn't telling us a deep truth about God or our calling as christians, we are not learning. We may feel emotionally charged but that for the most part is a sensual response, not a spiritual one.

3) It doesn't testify to the non-believer, when our songs are so void of the truth of the gospel message a non-believer in the congregation will not learn anything about his spiritual state (or lack thereof) and will not be compelled to repent.

Let me see if i cant illustrate what I mean by the scriptural/theological deficiency of modern song in comparrison to older hymns. I will try to find scripture to support as many lines in both song as possible.

David Crowder- How he loves us (2009)

And He is jealous from me (Exodus 20:5...... Maybe)
loves like a hurricane, I am a tree
Bending beneath the weight of His wind and mercy
When all of a sudden I am unaware of these afflictions
Eclipsed by glory and I realize just how beautiful You are
And how great Your affections are for me

Oh, how He loves, yeah, He loves us
Oh, how He loves us, oh, how He loves us
Oh, how He loves (John 3:16, five times)

And we are His portion and He is our prize
Drawn to redemption by the grace in His eyes
If His grace is an ocean, we're all sinking
And heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss (are you serious?)
And my heart turns violently inside of my chest
I don't have time to maintain these regrets
When I think about the way


Dallan Forgaill- Be Thou My Vision (1905)

Be thou my vision (Hebrews 12:2), O Lord of my heart, (Psalm 27:8)
Be all else but naught to me (1 Corinthians 2:2), save that thou art; (Luke 1:47)
Thou my best thought in the day and the night (Psalm 1:2)
Both waking and sleeping, thy presence my light (Psalm 27:1)

Be thou my wisdom (Job 28:28), be thou my true word (John 17:17)
Be thou ever with me (Deuteronmy 31:6), and I with thee Lord (Psalm 1:8)
Be thou my great Father (Phillipians 1:2), and I thy true son (Galatians 3:26)
Be thou in me dwelling, and I with thee one (John 15:4)

Be thou my breastplate (Ephesians 6:14) my sword for the fight (Ephesians 6:17)
Be thou my whole armour (Romans 13:12), be thou my true might (Exodus 5:2)
Be thou my soul's shelter (Psalm 61:3) be thou my strong tower (Proverbs 18:10)
O raise thou me heavenward (Phillipians 3:14), great Power of my power (Ephesians 6:10).


And I could go on and on. Here's my point, the david crowder song could be sung about any God of any religion, any love of any relationship, or any object of affection, even a pet. It is not testifying of the distntivess of our God. Now the Dollan Forgaill song would have to be totally re-written for anyone to not straight away recognise it as soeaking about the God of the bible.

But the truth is, the church today doesn't care that much about what is theologically sound, there much more concerned with what feels good and has a ring to it.

 

[kenisyes]

Most churches I'm in touch with use a mixture. The hymnals may be on the way out, but not the old hymns. See quetion 6 here (this is the most recent) CCLI 2011 License Holder Survery Results but especially question 3 here: CCLI 2009 License Holder Survery Results. (The question was disconinued after 2009). This is the "official" copyright clearing agency for church music use in the English speaking world.

 

[Graybeard]

[h=2]The Dangers Of No More Hymnals?.....[/h]I don't think it matters.......what really matters is that we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth.

Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

 

[1still_waters]

The Dangers Of No More Hymnals?.....

I don't think it matters.......what really matters is that we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth.

Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Your Spirit needs to be uttering some truthful worship back up to God.

 

[Angela53510]

I think you have a small point. But a small one.

I have been a worship leader, music director and a musician since I was saved, over 32 years.

The first years, I was in charismatic churches that loved to sing choruses over and over.

Many years later, I started marking those choruses in my Bible. Most were directly out of Scripture. I think I learned more Bible in context than anywhere else, including memory programs I have completed.

(And if anyone knows of a song for all of Romans 8, please let me know. I love Romans 8, but finding it difficult to memorize!!)

Then I was in a Pentecostal church and our "overhead projector" broke down for a couple of years, so we used a hymn book. Strange, I know. It was a great opportunity to learn hymns.

Into a Baptist church as music director, with some Seminary under my belt. What a surprise to find out a lot of those hymns were preaching a theology I did not believe in. The problem with pulling a few verses out of context, is that you can support anything, whether good doctrine or bad. Preaching is the same. Hymns that were eisogenic! LOL

Personally, I need a song that really exalts God, and is not about ME! I want to know more of the character of Christ, I want to celebrate what he has done for the world!

So I don't think it is about the hymn, choruses or modern songs. You have pulled a really bad song in your post, and I don't think I would ever hear or use a song like that in my church. We pick the songs to compliment the message, but also to worship God.

A long way of saying I used to agree with you about the pithy content of hymns, but now I think good doctrine should be taught in Sunday School and from the pulpit and the songs should be vetted for content, but also for musicality and to touch the hearts of people. I think people should leave church having been uplifted, and wanting to serve God with all their hearts. Doctrine, in my opinion should not be the focus of music, but saying that, it should be correct doctrine or throw the song, hymn etc. out!

 

[Gifts]

When a song isn't telling us a deep truth about God or our calling as christians, we are not learning. We may feel emotionally charged but that for the most part is a sensual response, not a spiritual one.

For myself, I use music to pray and praise Him. Adding in the learning factor would indeed make it even better, but that sounds like a tall order. In the end I think, the scriptures themselves are the most useful for teaching, and song is good for prayer and praise. Both are needed.

But that's also part of the problem, modern day churches here in America preach a soft message, ignoring the hard parts such as this: "Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil. Who has been sinning since the beginning." 1 John 3:7-8

If people are actually listening, and understanding anything, that should make them sweat.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

my favorite hymns are older than most of the stuff in the hymnals these days

 

[Grandpa]

I like some of the old hymnals. They are really powerful.

But some of the new music is just as good and just as powerful.

In Christ Alone was written in 2001
Break Every Chain was written pretty recently...
Just as examples.

Not every new song is good, but there are some.

Nothing but the Blood is a powerful hymn
That old rugged Cross
How Great thou Art

I don't want to lose those great old hymns, but I also appreciate some of the newer stuff too.

Put me down as "undecided"...

But I do think some of the Power in the older Hymns is based on their biblical simplicity. I like biblical simplicity. Its refreshing to hear it now and then in the newer music.

 

[Ugly]

I don't care for the worship in nearly any church. I pretty much despise the 'modern worship', (pop worship). Yet i am not a fan of the dated wording of hymnals, sung to pianos and organs. To me its very dry and deters from worship. I really don't care to worship at a church at all anymore. Personal preference. I find i become too aware of others and can be distracted by 'looking spiritual' instead of focused on worship. So i find the songs, or albums that bring me into worship, even if they are not 'worship' songs by nature. And i prefer it alone, where i won't get caught up in a spiritual pride conflict. And so i don't like most church worship, i have little desire to try to worship there anyways.

 

[HeIsNowHere]

This is a great post and I would respond. My wife is a trained musician. We have been at the large mega-churches with guitar bands. Young folks love this type of worship and this is ok but NOT exclusively. My wife and I firmly believe there is an entire generation of Christians growing up with so many watered down lyrics dumping or revising traditional hymns and or any other style except the guitar - drum stuff. My biggest criticism of Christian musicians is the poor quality of lyrics even though the tunes may be liked. Why do not these Christian musicians strive to write songs based on key scriptures and include the book and verse? There is so little of that but why? Song is the best way to remember long term and key scripture memory is so important. Instead we get the "ya you were, ya you were" stuff and everyone thinks it is so good. I play guitar and write KEY scripture songs with Book and reference included in the song. You sing these a few times you have God's word remembered. And this is amazingly powerful like I Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man, and God is faithful, he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." I wrote that because my mind has the song and I can play back the song so easily. What Christian musicians are doing this? All of the Navigator key scripture memory can be learned easily this way. Have you ever tried to memorize key scriptures. Believe me a have a BA from Indiana University is Psy and learned that song is the best way to remember and what better to remember than the key words of God?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

We have been at the large mega-churches with guitar bands. Young folks love this type of worship and this is ok but NOT exclusively. My wife and I firmly believe there is an entire generation of Christians growing up with so many watered down lyrics dumping or revising traditional hymns and or any other style except the guitar - drum stuff.

in my experience this more often assumed than actually true...many young christians are rediscovering the older hymns...a movement is growing...

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Well I think that the old hymns are extremely valuable. But, I must admit some newer stuff touches me also. But most of the new stuff is all about me and the Hymns are about Jesus. I mean nothing can replace amazing grace. The man that wrote it is well with my soul lost His entire family at sea. These are heartfelt songs that magnify God and have been sung for going on 300 years they are anointed and bring worship and praise from the constituents of the church. The bible teaches us in many ways to turn back to the old ways and there is no higher form of praise and worship than through an anointed song.