The Description Of A False Prophet

[Aliciaforjesus]

It was a really hard thing to go through, but I did learn a lot!

The Lord was with me, and what the devil meant for bad has turned out for my good!

It really made my faith in the Lord even stronger! I thank Him for showing me, that our fight is not agaisnt flesh and blood!

And your right, We must keeps our eye on Jesus!

It's all about Him!

 

[LynnJ]

Yes, we must always keep our eyes on God and seek Him earnestly:

As the deer pants for streams of water,
so my soul pants for you, O God.
My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
When can I go and meet with God?



(Ps. 42:1-2, NIV)

 

[MahogonySnail]

I politely thank you for providing the link, but I disagree. To believe that there is a filling of the Spirit to seek makes it hard for any believer to say that they are not preaching another spirit to receive. You are either filled and have the Spirit of God in you or..... you are taking up a rudiment found in the world as they seek after other spirits to receive and yet not able to, and so it is a continual seeking of those spirits.

Well the link wasn't exactly pentecostal website but fairly balanced website. I would have thought a distinction between the indwelling and filling of the Spirit was a standard belief.

What you are talking about is not infilling but indwelling, abiding, or resting in the Spirit.
Being actually filled, as scripture shows, is often accompanied by Spirit-empowered works like inspired preaching, casting out devils, visions, prophesy, tongues etc.

I don't know what the relevance is of all this Indians and stuff, I couldn't care less what they do.
While you are on a roll, why don't you also draw comparisons between Zoroastrianism and Mithraeism and say how the Gospel of Christ is a copy of these ancient religions?

We have to fix our eyes on what God is doing not satan, and yes satan copies God not the other way around. Or don't you believe that when we ask for a fish God won't give us a snake? When we ask the Father for the infilling of the Spirit He gives us the Spirit. Not a devil.

 

[MahogonySnail]

If one gets drunk... no amount of praying to be filled with the Spirit is going to remove that drunkenness. So why do believers think that it is going to happen when they are sober? All that does is cause worrying about being able, and yet we are to be free to cast all our anxieties upon the Lord for He cares for us.

Actually there have been instances of drunk people instantly being sober after hit with the power of God.

Is salvation a free gift or not? Is the receiving of the Holy Spirit given by promise or not? Then the continual filling of the Spirit would make the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit as a gift from an Indian Giver, but God is not an Indian Giver. He doesn't give a gift and then takes it back.

Again, if you understood the difference between the infilling and indwelling of the Spirit, it would make much more sense to you. Not being filled with the spirit doesn't mean God has taken a gift away. The Spirit is still there, but the person is not fully under the Spirit's control. That requires our obedience and cooperation with God. That's why it says don't grieve the Spirit, if we grieve the Spirit He doesn't leave us, but withdraws from our communion and fellowship with Him. If you understood the difference, things would be clearer for you. That's why I posted the website link, from gotquestions.org, which had all the relevant scripture, which you unfortunately rejected. The distinction between the two indwelling and infilling is not solely a pentecostal concept. Non pentecostal churches and organisations that I have been involved in, also see a distinct difference between the indwelling and infilling of the Spirit.

So you haven't answered my question about what happens to you when you are filled with the Spirit? As the book of Acts shows, it frequently was accompanied by tongues, inspired preaching, visions, prophecy etc. Which of these have you shown when you are filled with the Spirit every morning? Or is being filled to you just some airy fairy doctrinal concept you believe in your mind? Myself for example, when I am filled with the Spirit, I speak in tongues, I may prophecy and occasionally have a dream or vision. But I suppose it's caused by that big old Indian spirit watchamacallit or whatever it is you believe exists lol. No not really, it is God.

Is my suspicion nonsense? Then where is your thread in debunking what you consider a disagreement about tongues being used so the devil don't know what they are saying? Is it not love to correct one another? Are there not other disagreements that Pentecostals need to post threads on so that non-Pentecostals/ and non-Charismatics can at least say you are not purposefully ignoring them as you desire all your members to be like-minded in Christ and to use the gifts properly and in order?

Or will that cause division within the ranks and thus explains why the Lord has to raise up believers outside the church to give you all pause? Which you are not presently.

It's just not worth posting things about trivial matters Baruch, like whether or not tongues helps someone think that the devil can't hear their prayers, well and good. Perhaps believing that helps them have greater faith. I see no danger in believing it, although I think it is wrong myself.
In any case I will continue to speak in tongues and pray in tongues as much as I like (and yes sometimes I pray in tongues more than in English) whether you like it or not, I frankly don't really care

 

[Baruch]

Yes, we must always keep our eyes on God and seek Him earnestly:

As the deer pants for streams of water,
so my soul pants for you, O God.
My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
When can I go and meet with God?

(Ps. 42:1-2, NIV)

Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 4:19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.


21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Matthew 28: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

No need to go to a place to meet God for He is with you always. You can worship God at any time of the day or night, no matter where you are... in prison.. in a cave... on a subway train... in a bad part of the neighborhood.... for He is with you always.

That is why this promise has been fulfilled when we came to Jesus and believed on Him.

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

God does not live in a temple made with human hands, We are the temple of God!

This is the church that Jesus is builting, You and me!

We don't have to bring Him down to us, we don't have to perform in some kind of way to bring him anywhere!

All we have to do is Believe!

We don't have to do all we can do, and then hope we were good enough, and that it pleased God enough to grant us what we ask for!

The Holy Spirit is not earned, it doesn't come and go!

 

[carpetmanswife]

just stopppin by to say hi

 

[Baruch]

God does not live in a temple made with human hands, We are the temple of God!

This is the church that Jesus is builting, You and me!

We don't have to bring Him down to us, we don't have to perform in some kind of way to bring him anywhere!

All we have to do is Believe!

We don't have to do all we can do, and then hope we were good enough, and that it pleased God enough to grant us what we ask for!

The Holy Spirit is not earned, it doesn't come and go!

Amen. That is why we can rest in Jesus for Jesus is how the Holy Spirit fulfills the role of the Comforter.

 

[Baruch]

just stopppin by to say hi

Thanks for stopping by to say hi

 

[Baruch]

Actually there have been instances of drunk people instantly being sober after hit with the power of God.

I am sure those "reports" fall under the same category as those "healing crusades". Undocumented and thereby suspect to hype and sensationalism. Granted,... televised events would boast of such a thing, but then people do put on shows.

Again, if you understood the difference between the infilling and indwelling of the Spirit, it would make much more sense to you. Not being filled with the spirit doesn't mean God has taken a gift away. The Spirit is still there, but the person is not fully under the Spirit's control.

The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets and that is why we are instructed to not quench the Spirit because we can. The fruit of the Spirit.. self-control.. will not be undone by the Spirit Himself in order to work in us... but a thief coming in would take that self-control away.

God will do His work. All that si required of us is to trust Him to do it. To take up a rudiment in the world for this infilling to occur, is to labour in unbelief and preaching another spirit to receive.

There can be no continual filling for then you are bearing witness that you are a leaky vessel oe an old wineskin. How can Jesus apply this analogy to what He has done if there is a continual filling of the Spirit?

So you haven't answered my question about what happens to you when you are filled with the Spirit? As the book of Acts shows, it frequently was accompanied by tongues, inspired preaching, visions, prophecy etc.

What happens? I rest in Jesus moment from moment that He is with me always. I move and have my being thanks to Jesus... thus the just shall live by faith.

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

Where ever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom!

If the Holy Spirit was given because of something we could earn or do ourselves, We would have no need for Jesus!

But, since Gods mercy out weighs His judgement, He shows us the way to the Him is through His Son Jesus!

We all struggle with sin, those that call upon the name of Jesus, shall be saved!

Jesus is the author and finnisher of our faith, not us! He gives us a measure of it when we first believe!

The Holy Spirit is the one that keeps you, it does not leave you, nor turn it's back on you!

You do not have to be filled over and over, you are filled!

If you trust Jesus there is rest from your labors, because Jesus has already Won!

He said, It is finnished!

False Prophets and movements charge you a high price for something which was suppose to be free!

 

[Baruch]

Where ever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom!

If the Holy Spirit was given because of something we could earn or do ourselves, We would have no need for Jesus!

But, since Gods mercy out weighs His judgement, He shows us the way to the Him is through His Son Jesus!

We all struggle with sin, those that call upon the name of Jesus, shall be saved!

Jesus is the author and finnisher of our faith, not us! He gives us a measure of it when we first believe!

The Holy Spirit is the one that keeps you, it does not leave you, nor turn it's back on you!

You do not have to be filled over and over, you are filled!

If you trust Jesus there is rest from your labors, because Jesus has already Won!

He said, It is finnished!

False Prophets and movements charge you a high price for something which was suppose to be free!

I thank the Lord for you sharing this witness of our love for the truth.

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

Thanks You too!

I love the Lord because he first Loved me!

I can't take credit for that!

 

[MahogonySnail]

I am sure those "reports" fall under the same category as those "healing crusades". Undocumented and thereby suspect to hype and sensationalism. Granted,... televised events would boast of such a thing, but then people do put on shows.

You're a bit of a skeptic aren't you?

Believers may be, but are often not always filled with the Spirit, otherwise there would be no command for us to be filled.

What happens? I rest in Jesus moment from moment that He is with me always. I move and have my being thanks to Jesus... thus the just shall live by faith.

ah, resting, with you always, moving and having your being in Him... these are all references to abiding, resting, in the Spirit...as I said before, you are talking about something else not about being filled with the Spirit. Being filled with the Spirit is often accompanied by works of power and spiritual giftings as the book of Acts and that website link on gotquestions.org shows. Even the disciples had to wait until Pentecost for this infilling of power so they could commence their ministry by their own in the power of the Holy Spirit. Every believer today can have their own Pentecost-like experience with the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately the doctrines and arguments of man saying things like "that was for back then, not for today", quench the work of the Spirit and that's why so many believers act just like the world, and so many churches are drying up.

 

[MahogonySnail]

But yet there is a counterfeit of course, but just because there is a counterfeit doesn't mean the real thing doesn't exist. And I'd say it's very unlikely for a real believer in Christ to receive a snake when they ask God for a fish.

 

[Baruch]

You're a bit of a skeptic aren't you? Believers may be, but are often not always filled with the Spirit, otherwise there would be no command for us to be filled.

Actually... the command was to not be drunk with wine wherein there is excess, thus being said in the same breath with "but be filled with the Spirit" to me means.. no excess of the Spirit for the spirit is given without measure.. you either have Him or you don't. I call that part of the Good News so I can rest in Jesus.

ah, resting, with you always, moving and having your being in Him... these are all references to abiding, resting, in the Spirit...as I said before, you are talking about something else not about being filled with the Spirit. Being filled with the Spirit is often accompanied by works of power and spiritual giftings as the book of Acts and that website link on gotquestions.org shows.

What you are relaying is the campaign to seek another spirit to receive just so you can serve Him. When people started speaking in tongues, in Acts 10, they did not know about tongues, but the Gentiles got it at the same time they had received the Holy Ghost after hearinf what was said about Jesus and beliving in Him. Now as much as Acts has been used to imply a seperate category for signs and wonders to occur as if the believers in ACTS initiated them by seeking the spirit, that is not the case. Signs followed them that believe as a witness to the unbelievers. It was not for believers to seek after a sign nor are they to be vainglorious about having them since the Biblical gifts were given to profit the body withal. Believers are to follow Jesus; not after signs. God will do His work. Dare we take up a practise that suggests that God needs our help for Him to work through us.. a practise that was already found in the world before christainity came unto the scene in seeking after another spirit to receive in order for this to occur?

Even the disciples had to wait until Pentecost for this infilling of power so they could commence their ministry by their own in the power of the Holy Spirit. Every believer today can have their own Pentecost-like experience with the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately the doctrines and arguments of man saying things like "that was for back then, not for today", quench the work of the Spirit and that's why so many believers act just like the world, and so many churches are drying up.

Now you have just testified that believing in Jesus Christ is not enough. You have testified that you can lose the filling of Holy Spirit completely... or are you? If not, then where is the leak? Are you a new wineskin holding the promise of being filled and thus saved, or are you going to convince yourself that there must be two kinds of filling just so you can keep going to the market to get oil to fill your vessels. If you are not ready to shine now when Christ appears... of your faith in what He has done, then you certainly will afterwards... but at what cost?

 

[Baruch]

But yet there is a counterfeit of course, but just because there is a counterfeit doesn't mean the real thing doesn't exist. And I'd say it's very unlikely for a real believer in Christ to receive a snake when they ask God for a fish.

I believe the whole point of that passage is that once you have received the Holy Ghost.. there is no more asking for Him because then that would be like as if God the Father had given you a stone, serpent, or a scorpion instead of a fish in the ifrst place... and we know He has given us the Holy Spirit in the first place.. so no more asking for now we can rest in Jesus as God has rested from His work in making us His.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Actually... the command was to not be drunk with wine wherein there is excess, thus being said in the same breath with "but be filled with the Spirit" to me means.. no excess of the Spirit for the spirit is given without measure.. you either have Him or you don't. I call that part of the Good News so I can rest in Jesus.

There are varying degrees of the power of the Spirit on a person's life. Not every believer's shadow was healing the sick for example but Peter's was. As an apostle he had a greater measure of the Spirit than a newly converted believer would have for example. Not for salvation, but for service. And Jesus obviously had a greater measure of the Spirit than any one else, being the Son of God.

What you are relaying is the campaign to seek another spirit to receive just so you can serve Him. When people started speaking in tongues, in Acts 10, they did not know about tongues, but the Gentiles got it at the same time they had received the Holy Ghost after hearinf what was said about Jesus and beliving in Him. Now as much as Acts has been used to imply a seperate category for signs and wonders to occur as if the believers in ACTS initiated them by seeking the spirit, that is not the case. Signs followed them that believe as a witness to the unbelievers. It was not for believers to seek after a sign nor are they to be vainglorious about having them since the Biblical gifts were given to profit the body withal. Believers are to follow Jesus; not after signs. God will do His work. Dare we take up a practise that suggests that God needs our help for Him to work through us.. a practise that was already found in the world before christainity came unto the scene in seeking after another spirit to receive in order for this to occur?

We can serve Him in any capacity even without the infilling of the Spirit, and sadly many believers are happy just to serve like that, making cups of tea for example or cutting the church's grass lawn, but I'm talking about service in the power of the Spirit, in line with the spirtual giftings God gives to the church. You say that signs are for unbelievers, but not only, the spiritual gifts , prophecy etc are also for believers for the edification of the body. In fact the majority of Paul's writings about the spiritual giftings etc are written to the church not to unbelievers. Yet also remember, that some of the biggest skeptics and unbelievers to God's miracle working power can in fact be people named christians. God can use signs and wonders to shake them out of their complacency, reinforce their faith in Him, and demonstrate His great love for them.

I believe the whole point of that passage is that once you have received the Holy Ghost.. there is no more asking for Him because then that would be like as if God the Father had given you a stone, serpent, or a scorpion instead of a fish in the ifrst place... and we know He has given us the Holy Spirit in the first place.. so no more asking for now we can rest in Jesus as God has rested from His work in making us His.

You are reading your own doctrine into that verse. Which sort of contradicts this verse that we can indeed ask for the Holy Spirit.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


There is no distinctions made whether it is unbeliever or believer. There are no limitations on when we can ask for it. The reason why I think this verse is directed to believers, and saying that believers can and should ask for the Spirit, is that because unbelievers probably won't ask God for the Holy Spirit.

Also your interpretation does not seem to agree with most of the bible commentaries I've read on that passage, and non-pentecostal ones too mind you. In case you think i'm digging up pentecostal apologetics I'm not, this is straight down the line bible teaching with no particular denominational persuasion.

eg Matthew Henry:

11:5-13 Christ encourages fervency and constancy in prayer. We must come for what we need, as a man does to his neighbour or friend, who is kind to him. We must come for bread; for that which is needful. If God does not answer our prayers speedily, yet he will in due time, if we continue to pray. Observe what to pray for; we must ask for the Holy Spirit, not only as necessary in order to our praying well, but as all spiritual blessings are included in that one. For by the influences of the Holy Spirit we are brought to know God and ourselves, to repent, believe in, and love Christ, and so are made comfortable in this world, and meet for happiness in the next.

Asking for the Holy Spirit does not necessarily have to be a one time thing. We can ask for the Holy Spirit every time we need to be comforted, need help in praying etc. Of course as you say, the Spirit lives within us when we believe in Christ. That doesn't mean we can't ask Him for help, and can't ask Him to come and fill us and abide with us.

Now you have just testified that believing in Jesus Christ is not enough. You have testified that you can lose the filling of Holy Spirit completely... or are you? If not, then where is the leak? Are you a new wineskin holding the promise of being filled and thus saved, or are you going to convince yourself that there must be two kinds of filling just so you can keep going to the market to get oil to fill your vessels. If you are not ready to shine now when Christ appears... of your faith in what He has done, then you certainly will afterwards... but at what cost?

We can lay the foundations of repentance and belief over and over if we like, but I think just like the apostles had to wait for the power of the Spirit, we also need to wait for that. You are right, believing in Jesus Christ is not enough. God didn't think it was enough for the apostles to believe in Jesus, that's why God gave them the power of the Spirit at pentecost. Believing in Jesus will get you a ticket to heaven and a happy home in heaven, that will get you saved..as if that's the only important thing. But don't expect to be healing the sick, preaching inspired messages, and praying fervently and seeing prayers answered without the power of the Spirit. No pastor or ministry can be truly successful without it. No average believer can either. That's why there are plenty of christians who do believe in Jesus but aren't living in victory, with failed marriages, depression, demonic oppression etc. I look around and I can't see any evidence that "believe in Jesus is enough". Sure, it's enough if you want to live and do the best with life you can, die and your soul go to heaven. But if want to serve God and live in the power of the Spirit, no it is not enough.

 

[MahogonySnail]

re: "believing in Jesus is enough".

I know how it works in some of todays churches...it is basically something like, make a convert, get them saved, and then send them on their merry way. And if they backslide well, even they'll still be saved so let's pat ourselves on the back for making a convert anyway. These days they are lucky to be water baptised within a week of being saved. Even luckier to find a discipler and actually be discipled for an extensive amount of time. Even luckier still to actually be told about the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts etc.

The idea is to sit the new convert in a church somewhere and hopefully by some mysterious influence, teh pastor's preaching will cause some kind of spiritual growth and faith in the new believer's soul. Well that's a bit hard I'm afraid if the pastor is preaching skepticism and doubt, about how this is wrong and that is wrong, and how the spiritual gifts are not for today. The scriptures and Christian walk is so much more than just confined to John 3:16. Sadly stuck in John 3:16 is where many christians are content to be.

 

[ryan7477]

Yes, some people run after the latest and greatest thing, which is not what God wants us to do. But, regarding hunger and thirst, although Jesus does satisfy us, we are to hunger and thirst for Him and His righteousness:

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." (Matt. 5:6, NIV)

It is a figure of speech, to hunger and thirst after God, meaning that we should seek Him as if our very life depends upon it.

"O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water." (Ps. 63:1, NIV)

"I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah." (Ps. 143:6. NIV)

Praise God, He does satisfy the hungry and thirsty!

"Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men, for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things." (Ps. 107:8-9, NIV)

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. also in your NIV check for missing verse #1 acts chapter 8verse 37