The devil’s attitude towards the commandments of God

GraceAndTruth · Oct 19, 2020

I guess you will HATE this...

1 The Holy Spirit and Satan do not "occupy" any person at the same time. We cannot have the devil in our heads when the Spirit is there.

2 We all have a sin nature that endures past the point of being born again. I am not saying we act on it but the temptations of the past are still there. Changed minds produce changed desires.....so some sins are easily overcome but others are not, they are the ones we struggle over with the help of the Spirit.

3 We don't need Satan to tempt us when we have the Holy Spirit to convict us that the temptation is forbidden.

4 Jesus Christ defeated Satan at the cross. He has no claim on a child of God.

5 As born again believers we are justified and have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us...how could Satan influence us? I say he cannot. Our Comforter assures us.

oyster67 · Oct 19, 2020

lenna said:

Matthew
12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
12:2 But when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

throughfaith · Oct 19, 2020

Godcares said:

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

I decided re-read the New Testament regarding the issue and one of the issues that stood out for me in the bible regarding the commandments of God, is the devil’s attitude towards them.

1 John 3:8 says that the devil sinned from the beginning and therefore was the first being to break the commandments of God. In Revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon (devil) attacks those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There is also Revelation 14:12 that says “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

From these verses, it is reasonable to conclude that the devil hates God’s commandments and hates those who keep them. The devil attacks Christians who fulfil 3 requirements. The first is that they keep the commandments of God and second they have the faith of Jesus Christ and third have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It does not say that he attacks those who have the faith of Jesus Christ only.
What we learn from revelation is that the faith of Jesus Christ (Saved by grace through faith and justification by faith) is just as important as keeping the commandments of God. Notice that Revelation mentions the keeping of the commandments twice in these two bible verses. And these verses are in line with James 2:17 that says, Faith without works is dead.

We need to question whether we are on the right path if we are in agreement with the devil who is opposed to the keeping of the commandments of God.
We also need to consider that God is just and fair to all his creatures. If he kicked the devil out of heaven for sinning (disobeying the commandments), and says that it is fine for us to disobey them, then the devil needs to be allowed back into heaven!

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

We see the message of grace ( The Gospel is attacked the most . Paul's biggest attacks were from the legalists . Paul is accused of preaching license to sin , because the Gospel was ' liberty ' They turned his preaching INTO licence, because the devil hates the saving Gospel of grace. The world and the devil loves 'religion ' , and bondage to it . The devil enslaves with religion and legalism. The world is ok with religion in the main . Its ok with you keeping rules and commands, doing ' good ' , charities . But you preach a free gift with no works . Salvation through faith exclusively through Jesus. That the Devil hates .

lenna · Oct 19, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

I will hate this? I would hate what scripture states? you do have a way with words...that is, making up the words and then claiming someone else said them

you have not dealt with my post

rather, you have inserted your own ideas and opinions that do not agree with what the Bible actually states regarding the fact the devil is most able to afflict a Christian

let's deal with your points in the following post

throughfaith · Oct 19, 2020

Godcares said:

I have been reading posts about the issue of obedience of the commandments of God from CC members for the past few months. Some say we are saved by grace only and do not need to keep the commandments because they are done away with and others say that Christians still need to keep them even if they are saved.

I decided re-read the New Testament regarding the issue and one of the issues that stood out for me in the bible regarding the commandments of God, is the devil’s attitude towards them.

1 John 3:8 says that the devil sinned from the beginning and therefore was the first being to break the commandments of God. In Revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon (devil) attacks those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There is also Revelation 14:12 that says “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

From these verses, it is reasonable to conclude that the devil hates God’s commandments and hates those who keep them. The devil attacks Christians who fulfil 3 requirements. The first is that they keep the commandments of God and second they have the faith of Jesus Christ and third have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It does not say that he attacks those who have the faith of Jesus Christ only.
What we learn from revelation is that the faith of Jesus Christ (Saved by grace through faith and justification by faith) is just as important as keeping the commandments of God. Notice that Revelation mentions the keeping of the commandments twice in these two bible verses. And these verses are in line with James 2:17 that says, Faith without works is dead.

We need to question whether we are on the right path if we are in agreement with the devil who is opposed to the keeping of the commandments of God.
We also need to consider that God is just and fair to all his creatures. If he kicked the devil out of heaven for sinning (disobeying the commandments), and says that it is fine for us to disobey them, then the devil needs to be allowed back into heaven!

Also if it not necessary to obey the commandments after we are saved, then why does the devil keep tempting us to sin, if it does not matter if we disobey? It does not make sense.

I see some virtue signalling from some that assume those that hold to being sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption / Eternal security. That we hate the law ect . But rather the bible needs to be rightly divided .

lenna · Oct 19, 2020

GraceAndTruth, post: 4397760, member: 228909"]I guess you will HATE this...

1 The Holy Spirit and Satan do not "occupy" any person at the same time. We cannot have the devil in our heads when the Spirit is there.

LOL! where did I say the devil is in your head or any other part of your being? make up stuff much? deal with what the Bible actually states which includes being aware of the devices he uses. you are being unaware it would seem, but exhibiting one of the devices, which is to state he is basically harmless if one is a believer.
again, how about Paul? how about Peter? and others? were they not believers?

2 We all have a sin nature that endures past the point of being born again. I am not saying we act on it but the temptations of the past are still there. Changed minds produce changed desires.....so some sins are easily overcome but others are not, they are the ones we struggle over with the help of the Spirit.

I don't have a sin nature. I have a saved nature. we have the capacity for sin BUT the capacity to resist sin by the Holy Spirit within. we have that new nature by the Spirit upon salvation, even though sanctification is ongoing. this is a spiritual fact and not a matter of will

3 We don't need Satan to tempt us when we have the Holy Spirit to convict us that the temptation is forbidden.

that does not even make sense. of course we are tempted and drawn away by what appeals to us and temptation is ongoing as revealed in scripture with even Jesus being tempted of the devil in the wilderness. the Holy Spirit does not 'convict' us not to sin. you will have no scripture to back that one up. we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and we have a new nature.

4 Jesus Christ defeated Satan at the cross. He has no claim on a child of God.

I Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Ephesians 4:27 one)

Ephesians 6:11-12
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

I Peter 5: 8-9
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

you are choosing to ignore everything in scripture that illustrates the deception you are believing.

each one of those verses above are written to BELIEVERS. if you are a believer, they were written to YOU to be aware

ignore them at your own risk

5 As born again believers we are justified and have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us...how could Satan influence us? I say he cannot. Our Comforter assures us.

which 'Comforter' would ignore scripture or deny what God says in His word? not the Holy Spirit. perhaps some other spirit, but not the Holy Spirit. you are not in agreement with the word

as it is, I am going to leave you to your beliefs. there does not seem to be much we agree on, but I would hope you would at least agree with scripture, but it does not seem you do

throughfaith · Oct 19, 2020

Godcares said:

Hello Notmebuthim

You are twisting my words. I did not say that those who do not keep the commandments are of the devil. In my post, I was stating that the devil is against the keeping of the commandments and he attacks those who keep them. Since the devil is our enemy and is against keeping the commandments of God, then Christians should be for keeping the commandments of God. Christians should have the opposite attitude that the devil has in every subject and should not agree with him.

And the Apostle Paul was for the keeping of the commandments of God:

Romans 6:15 - What then? Shall we sin (break the commandments) because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 3:31 - Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Romans 7:12 – Wherefore the law is holy and commandment holy and just and good.

In John 8:40-45, Jesus says that the devil was the father of the Jewish leaders because they desired to behave like the devil. They wanted to kill Jesus and Jesus says in John 8:44 that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. He also says that the devil is a liar and that those who do not believe the truth or believe Jesus’ or God’s word like the Jewish leaders are siding with the devil, the father of lies.
So in John chapter 8, Jesus is accusing the Jewish leaders of breaking the commandments (specifically breaking commandments 6 and 9). He is exposing their hypocrisy. They say that they are commandment-keepers, but their actions show that they are commandment-breakers.

Help me out here . Am i to read between the lines, that you think that those who don't believe we need to keep the commandments to be saved , are of the devil ? Because i think that's what your saying here . The hate that you might run into with your preaching is because its against the Gospel. All believers should hate a false gospel.

BenjaminN · Oct 19, 2020

Matthew 5 (ESV)

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23 (ESV)

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

2 Thessalonians 2 (ESV)

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

lenna · Oct 19, 2020

BenjaminN said:

do you depend on your works righteousness or the righteousness of the Son of God?

you cannot have it both ways

you have not answered my question at all. anyone can post verses and that really does nothing but show they can post verses

if you give no explanation, I would guess that you cannot contrive one. that site you linked to is Jewish. this is a Christian forum and while I certainly believe every believer should be aware of the meaning and reason for the law, the problem comes when folks try to insist Christians should keep the law or parts of the law

so again, can you answer this question?

where in the NT do we find directions to follow your advice here? where are we told to pick out some of the law or ordinances of the 613 given to the Israelites? if you do that, then you have to follow all of it, which you should know actually

GraceAndTruth · Oct 19, 2020

lenna said:

I dealt with your post, against my better judgement, .....you don't agree...fine. You see it your way and I'll stick to my way. I am not looking for an argument with you, nor am I interested in trading insults.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 19, 2020

“He who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”—1 John 5:18 (NKJV)

Nehemiah6 · Oct 19, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

What exactly does this mean? Since the Wicked One attacks Christians daily, it certainly does not mean that they will be free from his attacks.

However, what it does mean is that Satan cannot reverse what God has accomplished supernaturally within the believe. Satan cannot touch the inner reality that the saint is a child of God, no matter what he throws at him, and that eventually the saints will prevail over all evil forces.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 19, 2020

oyster67 said:

Since the Pharisees had their own ideas about Sabbath-keeping (and were always nit-picking on Christ and his apostles), they were attempting to impose their false standards on Christ. But as we see later in the narrative, they had to be corrected and shown that satisfying hunger on the Sabbath day was NOT unlawful.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 19, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

In Job 1:6, the Lord asked Satan, “Where have you come from?” to which he responded, “From roaming through the earth.” He is physically positioned in the universe. He is not omnipresent, so he is unlikely to be personally tempting individual Christians. That would confine him to one location at a time.

Happy2020 · Oct 19, 2020

Binyan

BenjaminN said:

Binyamin....there is no point in trying to continue. It is pointless. But I understand clearly.

I just wanted you to know that someone does understand. Have a great week! (Just note: The Torah was given to Israel, never the nations, so regardless Non Jews never and will never have to worry about the 'laws' nor 'master understanding their inner meanings'.) Have faith, do good works because of our salvation, just like Avraham Avinu.

soggykitten · Oct 19, 2020

Godcares said:

It does if there is an agenda to contradict scripture using scripture on itself to that end.
In this world there are many slanders levied against God's laws. One that is popular these days is that which says the Jews believed obedience to God's law would attain them salvation.
That would surprise the Jews.

The other says that when Jesus died on the cross all the laws of God were done away with.
That would be a surprise to the Apostles and Jesus because after Jesus ascended the Apostles kept the Sabbath and honored the laws Jesus commanded they keep if they loved him.

The one thing that destroys the anti-law agenda in total however , and this would be news to those disciples, is that verse which God gives us that says, This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the LORD. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Hebrews 8:10

And that then destroys the anti-law agenda propagators/disciples in this world who also go so far as to say the old testament, the old covenant, matters not now that we have the new.
The truth is the old testament/covenant is the foundation of the new. The old testament is the prophecy to come , the new testament is the prophecy fulfilled. We cannot have one without the other.
And with regard to Hebrews 8:10, that is proven in Jeremiah. Jeremiah 31:31-34 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Now, sure as God made little green apples, the worldly contradiction agendaists will pipe up somewhere out there and retort, we're not Jews! That is a prophecy that pertains to Israel only!

Ignoring scripture doesn't make it disappear. Praise God! (Capital G.

)
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female--for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

And why would Paul, a Pharisee, say that? Why, because he also knew this of course.
"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7

"For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6-8.

soggykitten · Oct 19, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

That scripture in Job is speaking of Satan entering Heaven and having a conversation with God.
Did you forget this scripture?
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober and alert. Your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion,[n] is on the prowl looking for someone[o] to devour.
Footnote

[n]1 Peter 5:8 sn This phrase may be an allusion to Ps 22:13.
[o]1 Peter 5:8 tc A few mss (B Ψ 1175) lack the pronoun τινα (tina), while others have it. Those that have it either put the acute accent over the penult, making this an interrogative pronoun (“whom”; 436 642 2492 vg; most Fathers), or leave off any accent, making this an indefinite pronoun (“someone”; L P 33vid 81 1611 1735 1739 2344 al), or are too early to employ accents but nevertheless have the pronoun τινα (P72 א A). Generally speaking, the shorter and harder reading is to be preferred. In this instance, the omission of the pronoun would obviously be accommodated for by scribes, since both ζητέω (zēteō, “look, seek”) and καταπίνω (katapinō, “devour”) are transitive verbs. However, if the omission were original, one might expect the position of the pronoun to float in the mss—both before and after the infinitive καταπιεῖν (katapiein, “to devour”). Further, other terms might be expected as well, such as ἕνα ἐξ ὑμῶν (hena ex humōn, “one of you”) or τινα ἐξ ὑμῶν (tina ex humōn, “a certain one/someone of you”). The uniformity of both the word and its location suggests that the shorter reading (found in but a few Greek mss) in this instance was a scribal mistake. As to whether the pronoun is interrogative or indefinite, since accents were not a part of the earliest mss, such Greek witnesses are of no help to us in this kind of problem. There would be little difference in meaning between the two in this context.

Satan is a spirit power in the kingdom of the air. That is the atmosphere of this planet, the air where birds fly. Not the kingdom of Heaven.
Ephesians 2:2 And although you were[a] dead[b] in your offenses and sins, 2 in which[c] you formerly lived[d] according to this world’s present path,[e] according to the ruler of the domain[f] of the air, the ruler of[g] the spirit[h] that is now energizing[i] the sons of disobedience,[j] 3 among whom[k] all of us[l] also[m] formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath[n] even as the rest…[o]

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle[v] is not against flesh and blood,[w] but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness,[x] against the spiritual forces[y] of evil in the heavens.[z]

GraceAndTruth · Oct 19, 2020

soggykitten said:

That scripture in Job is speaking of Satan entering Heaven and having a conversation with God.
Did you forget this scripture?
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober and alert. Your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion,[n] is on the prowl looking for someone[o] to devour.
Footnote

[n]1 Peter 5:8 sn This phrase may be an allusion to Ps 22:13.
[o]1 Peter 5:8 tc A few mss (B Ψ 1175) lack the pronoun τινα (tina), while others have it. Those that have it either put the acute accent over the penult, making this an interrogative pronoun (“whom”; 436 642 2492 vg; most Fathers), or leave off any accent, making this an indefinite pronoun (“someone”; L P 33vid 81 1611 1735 1739 2344 al), or are too early to employ accents but nevertheless have the pronoun τινα (P72 א A). Generally speaking, the shorter and harder reading is to be preferred. In this instance, the omission of the pronoun would obviously be accommodated for by scribes, since both ζητέω (zēteō, “look, seek”) and καταπίνω (katapinō, “devour”) are transitive verbs. However, if the omission were original, one might expect the position of the pronoun to float in the mss—both before and after the infinitive καταπιεῖν (katapiein, “to devour”). Further, other terms might be expected as well, such as ἕνα ἐξ ὑμῶν (hena ex humōn, “one of you”) or τινα ἐξ ὑμῶν (tina ex humōn, “a certain one/someone of you”). The uniformity of both the word and its location suggests that the shorter reading (found in but a few Greek mss) in this instance was a scribal mistake. As to whether the pronoun is interrogative or indefinite, since accents were not a part of the earliest mss, such Greek witnesses are of no help to us in this kind of problem. There would be little difference in meaning between the two in this context.

Satan is a spirit power in the kingdom of the air. That is the atmosphere of this planet, the air where birds fly. Not the kingdom of Heaven.
Ephesians 2:2 And although you were[a] dead[b] in your offenses and sins, 2 in which[c] you formerly lived[d] according to this world’s present path,[e] according to the ruler of the domain[f] of the air, the ruler of[g] the spirit[h] that is now energizing[i] the sons of disobedience,[j] 3 among whom[k] all of us[l] also[m] formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath[n] even as the rest…[o]

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle[v] is not against flesh and blood,[w] but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness,[x] against the spiritual forces[y] of evil in the heavens.[z]

This is a sovereignty of God issue, either God is sovereign over His creation or He is not.
I have no other way to explain it.

The POINT was......to show that Satan is God's created creature, under God's authority. He had to ask PERMISSION to sift Job.
The OTHER POINT IS....Satan is not omnipresent, He is physically positioned in the universe. He is not omnipresent, so he is unlikely to be personally tempting individual Christians. That would confine him to one location at a time.
“He who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”—1 John 5:18 (NKJV)

soggykitten · Oct 19, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

No, Satan is not omnipresent only God is. However, you make a very interesting point there. Satan asked permission to sift Job. Would that mean Satan is permitted by God to tempt all people?

What then of those scriptures, that of 2nd Corinthians 2, 1 Thessalonians 3, and others that speak of the tempter as relates to the Christian?

Godcares · Oct 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

Hello Throughfaith

The post is based on observation of the posts of some CC members with regards to the commandments of God.

The main points in my posts can be summarized as follows:

1. We are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works like in James 2:17 says is dead. If a person is saved, but does not have love. Love being the fulfilment of the law (Romans 13:8-10). Then their salvation is meaningless. Therefore the devil attacks those who both keep the commandments (show love to both God and man) and are saved and justified by grace through faith.

2. Some people are against the keeping the commandments because they view the keeping of the commandments as legalism and are opposed to them. But legalism is when you think that keeping the commandments can save you. A person is not a legalist if they believe salvation is by grace through faith, and that they must show love to God and man (which is keeping the commandments). The devil is opposed to keeping the commandments and if someone is also opposed to them, then they have an incorrect understanding of the commandments. Some see them as a yoke of bondage, which they should run away from, but they are a law of love. The first 4 are about our love to God and the last 6 are about our love to our fellow neighbor (Matthew 22:37-39, Galatians 5:14)

3. The commandments cannot be done away, which some people believe because why would the devil tempt us to break a law that no longer exists. Why would the devil for example tempt a Christian man to commit adultery or Christians to lie?

The bible verses that I mentioned in the post stood out for me because it is not what I have heard been preached before. It is a different perspective from what have heard.
I did not have the mind-set when writing the post that those who do not keep the commandments are of the devil. I used him as an example to emphasize the importance of the commandments because he is not only God’s enemy, but our biggest enemy and is against God’s commandments. I am sorry if it came across that way.

The devil’s attitude towards the commandments of God

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