The devil's greatest lie to the body of Christ!
- Thread starter QuickenedByHim
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No, we are going to go through the WHOLE passage again NOT JUST verse 6:
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10
If the phrase "walk in darkness" simply means that one sins, then verses 8-10 have no meaning, they are contradictory.
In the same way "walking in the light" does not simply mean sinlessness, because it also makes verses 8-10 contradictory.
However, "walking in darkness" is compared to "walking in the light."
Walking in the light is very simple:
vs 8: we don't deceive ourselves about sin and sinfulness;
vs 9: we confess sin when we commit it to God - He will forgive us; and
vs 10: we don't make God out to be a liar, by not admitting our sin and sinfulness, and we make sure His word is in us.
Walking in darkness is likewise very simple:
One does the opposite of walking in the light!
I am very sure that you can now go back to vs 6 and clearly see that it cannot refer merely to the presence or absence of sin in one's life.
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10
If the phrase "walk in darkness" simply means that one sins, then verses 8-10 have no meaning, they are contradictory.
In the same way "walking in the light" does not simply mean sinlessness, because it also makes verses 8-10 contradictory.
However, "walking in darkness" is compared to "walking in the light."
Walking in the light is very simple:
vs 8: we don't deceive ourselves about sin and sinfulness;
vs 9: we confess sin when we commit it to God - He will forgive us; and
vs 10: we don't make God out to be a liar, by not admitting our sin and sinfulness, and we make sure His word is in us.
Walking in darkness is likewise very simple:
One does the opposite of walking in the light!
I am very sure that you can now go back to vs 6 and clearly see that it cannot refer merely to the presence or absence of sin in one's life.
So you cannot work this out for yourself...
Right,
to "walk in darkness" means to avoid God. It means we do not allow His scrutiny of our lives, we refuse to confront our sin and sinfulness. In this context it is very hard to say that we are in "fellowship with Him" - impossible in fact.
And so, in these circumstances if we do claim fellowship with Him we are lying and we are not practicing the truth.
Right,
to "walk in darkness" means to avoid God. It means we do not allow His scrutiny of our lives, we refuse to confront our sin and sinfulness. In this context it is very hard to say that we are in "fellowship with Him" - impossible in fact.
And so, in these circumstances if we do claim fellowship with Him we are lying and we are not practicing the truth.
Are you deliberately taking my post out of context?
That you could not even quote the whole context!
Am I supposed to take you seriously when you do this?
What I said was this: IF one is walking in darkness (in other words avoiding God, and not allowing Him scrutiny over our lives), THEN it becomes impossible to say we are in fellowship with Him.
Do not misquote me again!
That you could not even quote the whole context!
Am I supposed to take you seriously when you do this?
What I said was this: IF one is walking in darkness (in other words avoiding God, and not allowing Him scrutiny over our lives), THEN it becomes impossible to say we are in fellowship with Him.
Do not misquote me again!
It's hard to take you seriously when you so deliberately avoid the clear meaning of 1 John 2:6. I have not misquoted you, I simply don't understand the double mindedness of your theology.
Please explain your interpretation of 1 John 5:18 where John states "whosoever is born of God sins not, but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not."
Please explain your interpretation of 1 John 5:18 where John states "whosoever is born of God sins not, but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not."
Well if your interpretation is that one can be completely sinless from that verse please explain how John can contradict himself in 1 John.
I know that John is not contradicting himself, you on the other hand find yourself with a problem.
You see it is very clear to me that you like to cherry-pick a verse and verse there to come up with a dodgy interpretation - just like you did with my post.
I like to read whole chapters and whole books in order to understand what the author is saying - this is clearly not your habit...
Why would I consider wasting my time going through the Gospel of John with you when all you are interested in doing is justifying your prejudices.
I know that 1 John DOES NOT support your assertion of sinlessness - it simply cannot, but all you are interested in doing is taking a single verse out of context.
I know that John is not contradicting himself, you on the other hand find yourself with a problem.
You see it is very clear to me that you like to cherry-pick a verse and verse there to come up with a dodgy interpretation - just like you did with my post.
I like to read whole chapters and whole books in order to understand what the author is saying - this is clearly not your habit...
Why would I consider wasting my time going through the Gospel of John with you when all you are interested in doing is justifying your prejudices.
I know that 1 John DOES NOT support your assertion of sinlessness - it simply cannot, but all you are interested in doing is taking a single verse out of context.
I'm the one using multiple verses from scripture to back my theology of the true doctrine of Christ. Can't you see how you just totally ignored/ avoided my question regarding 1 John 5:18? What about 1 John 3:9 or any of the other nearly dozen scriptures I quoted in the original post that started this thread? And you call me the cherry picker? All you have is 1 John 1:8 (you know, the verse you have cherry picked throughout our entire conversation.)
I have many many verses ready to back my theology.
I have many many verses ready to back my theology.
Last edited:
Just because you might quote multiple verses to support your position does not change my point one iota.
You are taking verses out of context as if nothing else that exists before or after those verses matters.
Your accusation about 1 John 1:8 is complete rubbish as anyone with any intellectual honesty would attest by a simple read of my posts.
You were the one fixated on 1 John 1:6 - I showed you the context of that verse by using a bigger passage 1 John 1:5-10.
So, twice you have been dishonest now!
Is this your strategy to try to deflect attention away from your dodgy hermeneutics.
I think you have just shipwrecked your claim of sinless perfection!
You are taking verses out of context as if nothing else that exists before or after those verses matters.
Your accusation about 1 John 1:8 is complete rubbish as anyone with any intellectual honesty would attest by a simple read of my posts.
You were the one fixated on 1 John 1:6 - I showed you the context of that verse by using a bigger passage 1 John 1:5-10.
So, twice you have been dishonest now!
Is this your strategy to try to deflect attention away from your dodgy hermeneutics.
I think you have just shipwrecked your claim of sinless perfection!
E
Those are spoken of churches, not people.
Do not relate induvidual people inside those churches to the warning given to the church.
God said he would put out the candle of a church that does not repent if it falls in sin.. It means they will not have any power. and will be useless It does not mean all the people in that church will lose their light, Gods children are saved forever. Local churches will come and go. (and have for 2000 years)
Do not relate induvidual people inside those churches to the warning given to the church.
God said he would put out the candle of a church that does not repent if it falls in sin.. It means they will not have any power. and will be useless It does not mean all the people in that church will lose their light, Gods children are saved forever. Local churches will come and go. (and have for 2000 years)
They can't, unless they surrender to Him and trust Him as their Good Shepherd to destroy the works of the devil in their lives so they can follow Him.
Too many saved believers have resorted to their own power in doing the best they can to repent. They would say, I tried to keep my commitment to follow Christ, but it is too hard."
That is when we should say by the grace of God, "Then deny yourself as being able to follow Him by your own power and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him, because by the New Covenant, He is committed to you in helping you live that reconciled relationship with God thru Him.
That is why it is simply written "the just shall live by faith.." in Him and all His promises to us. Amen.
Too many saved believers have resorted to their own power in doing the best they can to repent. They would say, I tried to keep my commitment to follow Christ, but it is too hard."
That is when we should say by the grace of God, "Then deny yourself as being able to follow Him by your own power and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him, because by the New Covenant, He is committed to you in helping you live that reconciled relationship with God thru Him.
That is why it is simply written "the just shall live by faith.." in Him and all His promises to us. Amen.
1 John 2:[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
It is not written as ....
"[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him will himself also so to walk, even as he walked, otherwise he is not saved and is an unbeliever!!! Preach the gospel to him so he can be saved !!!!"
We are to exhort one another, encourage one another in looking to Jesus as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.
The Book of 1 John as a whole was John addressing & correcting believers that went astray by thinking that sin has ceased to be sin and so they walk in darkness, living in sin. He was not preaching that a saved believer could never sin, but that they should live a life of repentance by looking to Jesus Christ to destroy the works of the devil in their lives to follow Him.
If a saved believer could never sin, then John would not have written this:
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So John was addressing saved believers that thinks sin has ceased to be sin and so they can walk in darkness when that is not the case at all.
1 John 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Where did they get that false notion? Probably from twisting Paul's words as they twist the rest of scriptures to their self destruction as testified by Peter.
2 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;[SUP] 16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
This may be one reference below by Paul where these people may have thought sin is no longer sin any more.
1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
I think they read verse 27 into verse 28 when Paul was just talking about a virgin man when he marries and a virgin woman when she marries, and so they think loosing oneself from a wife and remarrying another is not a sin and thus they erroneously concluded that sin has ceased to be sin so they can walk in darkness.
So you can see why the apostle John was writing to these wayward believers that we are to walk in the light as He did and to trust Him to destroy the works of the devil in our lives so we can follow Him.
So John was not preaching that no saved believer can ever sin. He was rebuking the false notion that sin has ceased to be sin for why some saved believers were "freely" walking in darkness when they should be looking to Him to destroy the works of the devil in their lives for that is His purpose so that they can follow Him.
1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure......[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
It is not written as ....
"[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him will himself also so to walk, even as he walked, otherwise he is not saved and is an unbeliever!!! Preach the gospel to him so he can be saved !!!!"
We are to exhort one another, encourage one another in looking to Jesus as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.
The Book of 1 John as a whole was John addressing & correcting believers that went astray by thinking that sin has ceased to be sin and so they walk in darkness, living in sin. He was not preaching that a saved believer could never sin, but that they should live a life of repentance by looking to Jesus Christ to destroy the works of the devil in their lives to follow Him.
If a saved believer could never sin, then John would not have written this:
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So John was addressing saved believers that thinks sin has ceased to be sin and so they can walk in darkness when that is not the case at all.
1 John 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Where did they get that false notion? Probably from twisting Paul's words as they twist the rest of scriptures to their self destruction as testified by Peter.
2 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;[SUP] 16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
This may be one reference below by Paul where these people may have thought sin is no longer sin any more.
1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
I think they read verse 27 into verse 28 when Paul was just talking about a virgin man when he marries and a virgin woman when she marries, and so they think loosing oneself from a wife and remarrying another is not a sin and thus they erroneously concluded that sin has ceased to be sin so they can walk in darkness.
So you can see why the apostle John was writing to these wayward believers that we are to walk in the light as He did and to trust Him to destroy the works of the devil in our lives so we can follow Him.
So John was not preaching that no saved believer can ever sin. He was rebuking the false notion that sin has ceased to be sin for why some saved believers were "freely" walking in darkness when they should be looking to Him to destroy the works of the devil in their lives for that is His purpose so that they can follow Him.
1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure......[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The "church" is the body of Christ. We are the church. Those words are meant for all who read them, not just people 2000 years ago. And "remove it's candlestick out from it's place" or "I will spew you out of my mouth" are some bold words from the Lord, I pray you don't take them as lightly as you do.
You also failed to justify the warning we are givien in Romans 11:22 that I mentioned, refuting your OSAS doctrine.
