The Doctrine of Christ and Walking As He Walked
- Thread starter Skinski7
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you pay your son's speeding ticket, you are not guilty of speeding; but the consequence of speeding is no longer over your son's head.
When Jesus took upon Himself the penalty for the sin of the world; he did not become guilty of any of it.
He was only able to take our sin upon Himself because He did NOT have sin of His own to pay for.
When Jesus died for the sin of the world; He died for all sin present, past, and future.
The fact that future sin is paid for is NOT license to sin. Nobody with the Holy Spirit within them will willfully add to Jesus suffering on the cross. What we do now Jesus had to pay for then in anticipation.
Salvation is a gift but it is not free. If it was free then Jesus would not have associated a cost with it.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Jesus taught that following Him will cost us everything, which is why those considering doing so ought to count the cost beforehand.
Luk 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The free gift described in the Bible is the means of reconciliation by which a sinner may have their sins forgiven and their faith reckoned as righteousness. God's grace has abounded when sin has abounded and God has freely provided light to the world through Jesus Christ.
In order to partake of this gift one must forsake all and follow Jesus. Salvation from sin is the result of utilising the means freely provided by God. This is why Jesus taught that we must forsake all in order to follow Jesus.
Jesus taught this...
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
God freely provides for us the treasure but it will cost us everything in order to obtain it. Likewise Jesus taught...
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luk 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
We have to lose our life for the sake of Christ in order to save our life. This is what Jesus taught.
Jesus also taught...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Strive in the Greek is "agōnizomai" and literally means to "agonise, struggle, contend for a prize."
The cost is more than some abandonment of some delusion, the cost is our lives. We must forsake all that we have in order to follow Jesus and that is a very high price and this price is the very reason that the vast majority of those who profess Jesus as Lord will be rejected. Only a FEW will be saved because only a FEW strive like Jesus taught.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Jesus taught that following Him will cost us everything, which is why those considering doing so ought to count the cost beforehand.
Luk 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The free gift described in the Bible is the means of reconciliation by which a sinner may have their sins forgiven and their faith reckoned as righteousness. God's grace has abounded when sin has abounded and God has freely provided light to the world through Jesus Christ.
In order to partake of this gift one must forsake all and follow Jesus. Salvation from sin is the result of utilising the means freely provided by God. This is why Jesus taught that we must forsake all in order to follow Jesus.
Jesus taught this...
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
God freely provides for us the treasure but it will cost us everything in order to obtain it. Likewise Jesus taught...
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luk 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
We have to lose our life for the sake of Christ in order to save our life. This is what Jesus taught.
Jesus also taught...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Strive in the Greek is "agōnizomai" and literally means to "agonise, struggle, contend for a prize."
The cost is more than some abandonment of some delusion, the cost is our lives. We must forsake all that we have in order to follow Jesus and that is a very high price and this price is the very reason that the vast majority of those who profess Jesus as Lord will be rejected. Only a FEW will be saved because only a FEW strive like Jesus taught.
Why do you think we should abstain from meat which has been strangled and from blood, whether in or out of meat
Lev 17:11-14
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
KJV
why did Jesus teach the people to observe what was taught from the seat of Moses?
Before the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, all Israel was still under the law. only the Law of the Spirit within us frees us from the Law of sin and death.
Lev 17:11-14
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
KJV
why did Jesus teach the people to observe what was taught from the seat of Moses?
Before the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, all Israel was still under the law. only the Law of the Spirit within us frees us from the Law of sin and death.
Skinski,
Do you know what it is we are to STRIVE FOR? Until one understands what that is one can NOT understand what it is He is talking about. Jesus told us what the straight gate is
John 10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. [SUP]9[/SUP]I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[SUP][a][/SUP] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 14
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you really know me, you will know[SUP][b][/SUP] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
John 6
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 8
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 11
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;[SUP]26 [/SUP]and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Then Jesus sums to beautifully here
John 15
15“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.[SUP]2 [/SUP]He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[SUP][a][/SUP] so that it will be even more fruitful. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. [SUP]4[/SUP]Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP]“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. [SUP]12 [/SUP]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are my friends if you do what I command. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is my command: Love each other.
The striving we are to do is to REMAIN IN HIM.
Do you know what it is we are to STRIVE FOR? Until one understands what that is one can NOT understand what it is He is talking about. Jesus told us what the straight gate is
John 10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. [SUP]9[/SUP]I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[SUP][a][/SUP] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 14
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you really know me, you will know[SUP][b][/SUP] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
John 6
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 8
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 11
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;[SUP]26 [/SUP]and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Then Jesus sums to beautifully here
John 15
15“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.[SUP]2 [/SUP]He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[SUP][a][/SUP] so that it will be even more fruitful. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. [SUP]4[/SUP]Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP]“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. [SUP]12 [/SUP]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are my friends if you do what I command. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is my command: Love each other.
The striving we are to do is to REMAIN IN HIM.
What is the point you are trying to make?
Are you implying that there is no "effort" on our part?
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
The context of the above words of Jesus was regarding FEW being saved.
"Strive" literally means to "agonise, struggle, contend for a prize."
Paul uses the same word in...
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
The Bible is very clear in teaching that we have to make a great effort. Is that teaching problematic for you Sarah? If it isn't then what is the point of your post. I did not write anything false.
Faith is a work and effort is involved.
The works that do not save are works done apart from faith. The work of faith is the means by which we apply the grace of God in order to produce an effectual result. God leads and we yield and the result is purity of heart. This is why the Bible teaches that faith purifies the heart and that obedience to the truth through the spirit purifies the soul. It is all very simple.
All the verses you quoted simply emphasise that it is via the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ by which we find redemption from sin. In other words, apart from God (whom is the source of light/righteousness/life) we can do nothing. We must be plugged into the power source in order to shine.
Are you implying that there is no "effort" on our part?
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
The context of the above words of Jesus was regarding FEW being saved.
"Strive" literally means to "agonise, struggle, contend for a prize."
Paul uses the same word in...
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
The Bible is very clear in teaching that we have to make a great effort. Is that teaching problematic for you Sarah? If it isn't then what is the point of your post. I did not write anything false.
Faith is a work and effort is involved.
The works that do not save are works done apart from faith. The work of faith is the means by which we apply the grace of God in order to produce an effectual result. God leads and we yield and the result is purity of heart. This is why the Bible teaches that faith purifies the heart and that obedience to the truth through the spirit purifies the soul. It is all very simple.
All the verses you quoted simply emphasise that it is via the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ by which we find redemption from sin. In other words, apart from God (whom is the source of light/righteousness/life) we can do nothing. We must be plugged into the power source in order to shine.
Last edited:
I am just trying to clarify in my mind what it is you are saying. I never said there was no effort on our part. The striving on our part is to REMAIN in Him. It's what all the warnings are about. All the things that we warned about CAN separate us from Him. It all goes back to one can NOT enter into the kingdom of heaven UNLESS he becomes like a little child,the little child is TOTALLY DEPENDENT upon his father,and in like manner we are to REMAIN TOTALLY DEPENDENT upon our heavenly Father. 
Premise number one it is BY FAITH we are declared righteous,unless one has faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It is NOT POSSIBLE. And that faith in love will OBEY. If one is not obeying can that person truly say they love Him? Faith,love and obeying can only be separated in and only as far as how we are declared to be righteous,the evidence that one is righteous is by HOW we live it out.
Premise number one it is BY FAITH we are declared righteous,unless one has faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It is NOT POSSIBLE. And that faith in love will OBEY. If one is not obeying can that person truly say they love Him? Faith,love and obeying can only be separated in and only as far as how we are declared to be righteous,the evidence that one is righteous is by HOW we live it out.
And to take it further the EVIDENCE that one belongs to Christ is AGAPE LOVE. It is provable. You can't fake or make it out of thin air it. It is either there or it is NOT. Jesus plainly says they WILL know you are my disciples by the LOVE you have one for another. For anyone to say that we can not know who are His is to call Jesus a liar. Scripture is so clear on that concept. From the law and the prophets all the way through John it is repeated over and over and over again. It is also the FIRST FRUIT of the Spirit.
I am just trying to clarify in my mind what it is you are saying. I never said there was no effort on our part. The striving on our part is to REMAIN in Him. It's what all the warnings are about. All the things that we warned about CAN separate us from Him. It all goes back to one can NOT enter into the kingdom of heaven UNLESS he becomes like a little child,the little child is TOTALLY DEPENDENT upon his father,and in like manner we are to REMAIN TOTALLY DEPENDENT upon our heavenly Father.
Premise number one it is BY FAITH we are declared righteous,unless one has faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It is NOT POSSIBLE. And that faith in love will OBEY. If one is not obeying can that person truly say they love Him? Faith,love and obeying can only be separated in and only as far as how we are declared to be righteous,the evidence that one is righteous is by HOW we live it out.
Premise number one it is BY FAITH we are declared righteous,unless one has faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It is NOT POSSIBLE. And that faith in love will OBEY. If one is not obeying can that person truly say they love Him? Faith,love and obeying can only be separated in and only as far as how we are declared to be righteous,the evidence that one is righteous is by HOW we live it out.
Genuine faith and obedience are synonymous. Genuine faith and agape love are also synonymous.
Paul taught that "faith works by love" (Gal 5:6) and in Hebrews we explicitly see it described that "faith obeys" (Heb 11:8).
What is it we obey? Simple. The truth. We simply walk in righteousness as far as we understand from a heart which has repented of our former rebellious ways. Thus we walk by faith and it is this faith that God reckons as righteousness.
It sounds to me that that is exactly what you are saying.
Right on.
Repentance is proven by deeds and faith without works is dead. In other words if there is no outward manifestation of an inward change then there has been no inward change. This is why those who still engage in rebellion to God and call themselves Christians are greatly deceived. Whom we serve reveals whom we belong to. We either obey sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. There are many deceivers today who preach a "positional salvation" whereby they disconnect manifest conduct and thus argue in favour of ongoing wickedness in salvation being permissible.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Repentance is proven by deeds and faith without works is dead. In other words if there is no outward manifestation of an inward change then there has been no inward change. This is why those who still engage in rebellion to God and call themselves Christians are greatly deceived. Whom we serve reveals whom we belong to. We either obey sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. There are many deceivers today who preach a "positional salvation" whereby they disconnect manifest conduct and thus argue in favour of ongoing wickedness in salvation being permissible.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Last edited:
One of the clearest passages written by Paul which explains the genuine salvation experience is Romans 8:1-4.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
It is the law of the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ which effects a release from the law of sin and death.
If we are walking according to the Spirit, ie. being led of God, we are in a present state of walking with God. There is no rebellion and hence there is no service of sin and thus no spiritual death is wrought. When we come clean with God and forsake our rebellion God forgives our past conduct. We are no longer under condemnation so long as we refrain from rebellion and this is achieved simply by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. We keep His word and the love of God is perfected in us and by this we love one another with pure hearts fervently.
It is in this manner that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us wherefore the law is not voided by faith but rather it is fulfilled. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. There is no law against such things hence the law becomes obsolete to us.
The law is but a shadow of what love should look like. If we love then we no longer need thou shalt not murder, steal, lie or cheat. The nature of love regulates our manifest conduct.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
It is the law of the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ which effects a release from the law of sin and death.
If we are walking according to the Spirit, ie. being led of God, we are in a present state of walking with God. There is no rebellion and hence there is no service of sin and thus no spiritual death is wrought. When we come clean with God and forsake our rebellion God forgives our past conduct. We are no longer under condemnation so long as we refrain from rebellion and this is achieved simply by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. We keep His word and the love of God is perfected in us and by this we love one another with pure hearts fervently.
It is in this manner that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us wherefore the law is not voided by faith but rather it is fulfilled. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. There is no law against such things hence the law becomes obsolete to us.
The law is but a shadow of what love should look like. If we love then we no longer need thou shalt not murder, steal, lie or cheat. The nature of love regulates our manifest conduct.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The only kind of faith that is counted for righteousness is a faith that works.
If you want to disconnect deeds from faith and petition for some king of "faith alone" so be it. That is not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that it is the hearers and doers whom are accepted. Those whom hear and do not do fall to their ruin.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
To acknowledge Jesus ownership in truth implies obedience to His commands. This is why Paul stated the following...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
There are two paths.
1. Sin unto death = disobedience unto unrighteousness = not doing.
2. Obedience unto righteousness = Not sinning unto death = doing.
It is obedience from the heart to the doctrine that Christ delivered which sets us free from sin. Being free from sin allows us to be servants of righteousness.
Those whom serve unrighteousness whilst giving a lip service acknowledgment to Jesus fall into the following category...
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There will be MANY such "workers of iniquity" at the judgement. It is prudent we all heed such warnings and ensure we are not one of them. How do we avoid being one of them? Simple. Do what Jesus said to do.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The only kind of faith that is counted for righteousness is a faith that works.
If you want to disconnect deeds from faith and petition for some king of "faith alone" so be it. That is not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that it is the hearers and doers whom are accepted. Those whom hear and do not do fall to their ruin.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
To acknowledge Jesus ownership in truth implies obedience to His commands. This is why Paul stated the following...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
There are two paths.
1. Sin unto death = disobedience unto unrighteousness = not doing.
2. Obedience unto righteousness = Not sinning unto death = doing.
It is obedience from the heart to the doctrine that Christ delivered which sets us free from sin. Being free from sin allows us to be servants of righteousness.
Those whom serve unrighteousness whilst giving a lip service acknowledgment to Jesus fall into the following category...
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There will be MANY such "workers of iniquity" at the judgement. It is prudent we all heed such warnings and ensure we are not one of them. How do we avoid being one of them? Simple. Do what Jesus said to do.
Well you've got some of it right, anyways.
Now if you could just learn what Grace is, why it is so important and why it is the weak who need it, then some of your error could be eliminated, maybe all of it.
If you think it is your obedience that has caused your righteousness then you are still very far away.
Romans 5:15-17
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Now if you could just learn what Grace is, why it is so important and why it is the weak who need it, then some of your error could be eliminated, maybe all of it.
If you think it is your obedience that has caused your righteousness then you are still very far away.
Romans 5:15-17
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)