The Doctrine of Hell: Under Attack
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Can anyone show where in the Hebrew scriptures that support hell being a place of eternal torment without escape can actually come from the very creator who is the foundation of love? But please I would like scriptural documentation on this subject but in the Hebrew scriptures because I believe it to be false. Please don't take offense.
Greetings TruthisPower,
First, it is important to understand that, though God is love, that attribute of God does not override His being a God of justice and righteous judgment. Once a person dies without Christ and remains in their sins, God's love and mercy are no longer in operation for that individual. At the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period, those who will have died in their sins will be resurrected out of Hades and will stand before God and will give an account of every idle word they ever said. (Rev.20:11-15)
Regarding finding eternal torment in the Hebrew scriptures, you will find reference to Sheol, which is synonymous with Greek Hades and which is a temporary place of torment in flame until the great white throne judgment. The only reference to the lake of fire, the final place of punishment in the OT that I am aware of, is found in Dan.7:11 which states that "the little horn" which is a reference to the antichrist/beast, who will be thrown into the blazing fire when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.
Furthermore, just because something isn't in the Hebrew scriptures doesn't mean that it is not true. There are some things introduced in the NT that are not found in the OT. For example, though the OT testament saints knew of the resurrection, they did not know that at the time of the resurrection, that the living believers would be changed into their immortal bodies and caught up with those who will have just been resurrected.
The lake of fire, also called the second death, is the final place of punishment and is defined in the book of Revelation, which is a different location from Sheol/Hades.
First, it is important to understand that, though God is love, that attribute of God does not override His being a God of justice and righteous judgment. Once a person dies without Christ and remains in their sins, God's love and mercy are no longer in operation for that individual. At the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period, those who will have died in their sins will be resurrected out of Hades and will stand before God and will give an account of every idle word they ever said. (Rev.20:11-15)
Regarding finding eternal torment in the Hebrew scriptures, you will find reference to Sheol, which is synonymous with Greek Hades and which is a temporary place of torment in flame until the great white throne judgment. The only reference to the lake of fire, the final place of punishment in the OT that I am aware of, is found in Dan.7:11 which states that "the little horn" which is a reference to the antichrist/beast, who will be thrown into the blazing fire when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.
Furthermore, just because something isn't in the Hebrew scriptures doesn't mean that it is not true. There are some things introduced in the NT that are not found in the OT. For example, though the OT testament saints knew of the resurrection, they did not know that at the time of the resurrection, that the living believers would be changed into their immortal bodies and caught up with those who will have just been resurrected.
The lake of fire, also called the second death, is the final place of punishment and is defined in the book of Revelation, which is a different location from Sheol/Hades.
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I only kept the quote of yours regarding Sheol and Hades, because you are saying that they are a place of torment, by fire, which I am not persuaded that they are.
I looked up the 66 Sheols in the OT and the 12 Hades in the NT and found only two mentions of fire. In the OT it was in the Song of Solomon 8:6 and was talking about jealousy and in the NT it was in Luke and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Considering that the NT reference was a parable, I don't feel that it can be a definitive description of Hades.
I also feel that Sheol and Hades are nothing more than the earth and the bowels of the earth, which would include both the grave and the area below that has been opened up on occasion to swallow sinners.
I looked up the 66 Sheols in the OT and the 12 Hades in the NT and found only two mentions of fire. In the OT it was in the Song of Solomon 8:6 and was talking about jealousy and in the NT it was in Luke and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Considering that the NT reference was a parable, I don't feel that it can be a definitive description of Hades.
I also feel that Sheol and Hades are nothing more than the earth and the bowels of the earth, which would include both the grave and the area below that has been opened up on occasion to swallow sinners.
Interpreting the rich man and Lazarus as a parable is your mistake. The rich man and Lazarus reads nothing like a parable, as real names are being used, as well as the literal location of Hades.
If you interpreted the rich man and Lazarus in the literal sense, you wouldn't be interpreting Sheol/Hades as you described above, but as a literal place of departed spirits. In fact, here is the definition of that Sheol/Hades:
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Short Definition: Hades
Definition: Hades, the unseen world.HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
Strong's Concordance
If you interpreted the rich man and Lazarus in the literal sense, you wouldn't be interpreting Sheol/Hades as you described above, but as a literal place of departed spirits. In fact, here is the definition of that Sheol/Hades:
Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁPart of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Short Definition: Hades
Definition: Hades, the unseen world.HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
Strong's Concordance
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Both Lazarus and the rich man were said to have died and after the death and burial of his body, Lazarus found his spirit at Abraham's side. The rich man also died and found himself in Hades in torment in flame. He could see both Abraham and Lazarus at his side, but there was a great chasm which separated the two areas so that no one could pass over from either place. Lazarus was comforted, but the rich man was in torment in flame.
Since there is nothing in the scripture which would infer a symbolic interpretation, you should read it at face value.
Both Lazarus and the rich man were said to have died and after the death and burial of his body, Lazarus found his spirit at Abraham's side. The rich man also died and found himself in Hades in torment in flame. He could see both Abraham and Lazarus at his side, but there was a great chasm which separated the two areas so that no one could pass over from either place. Lazarus was comforted, but the rich man was in torment in flame.
Since there is nothing in the scripture which would infer a symbolic interpretation, you should read it at face value.
Also, getting people to believe that the event of the rich man and Lazarus as being a parable does away with the understanding that after the death of the body the spirit/soul is very conscious and aware and also that there is punishment for the unrighteous, which begins after the death of the body.
What a deception Satan has perpetrated, getting people to believe the rich man and Lazarus as being a parable.
What a deception Satan has perpetrated, getting people to believe the rich man and Lazarus as being a parable.
It’s what parables do.... signify as a sign pointied toward the unseen .Without them Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not. Its like the whole book called Revelation. Pointing to the unseen eternal using the termpoal as that seen as a shadow pointing toward the unseen.(faith principle.)
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Signifying from the vantage point of last day
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
The metaphor Abraham’s bosom in that parable signifies the invisible presence of God . The fleshly body of Abraham has been consumed as worm food as does any corruptible thing of this world returning to the dust the spirit returns to the Father.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
What do the literal eyes in that aparble signify? What tormnet is he feeling seeing he has no flesh or blood? Purgatory a unknown kind of sufering for a undertimed amount of time??
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
What does the literal finger and tongue and literal flame in that parable signify?
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented
.What does. "But Abraham said"... signify knowing he is dead asleep like any saint that leaves this realm under the sun and will not be awoken until the last day?
Can we pray to Abraham ?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Signifying from the vantage point of last day
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
The metaphor Abraham’s bosom in that parable signifies the invisible presence of God . The fleshly body of Abraham has been consumed as worm food as does any corruptible thing of this world returning to the dust the spirit returns to the Father.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
What do the literal eyes in that aparble signify? What tormnet is he feeling seeing he has no flesh or blood? Purgatory a unknown kind of sufering for a undertimed amount of time??
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
What does the literal finger and tongue and literal flame in that parable signify?
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented
.What does. "But Abraham said"... signify knowing he is dead asleep like any saint that leaves this realm under the sun and will not be awoken until the last day?
Can we pray to Abraham ?
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