The dreaded doctrine of election and perseverance.

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,366
1,809
113
When you say ' he knew us before he formed us in the womb what do you mean ?
Jeremiah 1 1
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations
I am not able to memorize scripture due to my brain damage but I do often speak of scripture. For me this verse has always stuck in my heart because as I grew closer and closer more and more intimate with father I couldn't help but feel something familiar about him like a really old dream or memory that you faintly remember
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,647
2,518
113
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born
I set you apart and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born
I set you apart and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
Not before you were in the womb, but before you were formed. Psalm 139 says, your eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
Jeremiah 1 1
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations
I am not able to memorize scripture due to my brain damage but I do often speak of scripture. For me this verse has always stuck in my heart because as I grew closer and closer more and more intimate with father I couldn't help but feel something familiar about him like a really old dream or memory that you faintly remember
Formed who ? And when ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
Jeremiah 1 1
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations
I am not able to memorize scripture due to my brain damage but I do often speak of scripture. For me this verse has always stuck in my heart because as I grew closer and closer more and more intimate with father I couldn't help but feel something familiar about him like a really old dream or memory that you faintly remember
#103
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,366
1,809
113
I'm not sure how serious i should take a Christian who is appealing to Google in a bible discussion?
For the record I have to use google every time I need to search up scripture I have eye damage so I have fonts that make me able to read and I am unable to memorize scripture as well
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
One of the most difficult questions for me, is why did God even bothered creating his fallen son Lucifer, if he knew what destruction he would bring to his creation? But God created good and evil out of nothing, and knew when he created, there will be a fall brought about by Satan / Lucifer, and that he would have to send his first created, firstborn Son, Christ Yeshua to separate all God's sheep from the goats, and to recreate a new heaven and earth, for only his sheep devoid of any evil forever, and banish all evil to the bottomless pit of eternal damnation.
Wait a minute, Lucifer IS NOT a Son of God! That's snake eyes! However I think free will may have something to do with it. If God wanted pure strict involuntary obedience he could easily made clones or robots. That wouldn't be love so He made us instead We can Love as flawed as we are in spite of what happened in the garden with Adam ad Eve's freewill they and we can repent and regret our sins.

I know the Calvinists are going to try and figure a way around what I just wrote, deny free will deny the right to chose or decide anything for ourselves but the truth is the truth. We are not robots we are flawed human beings. God loves anyways in spite of our flaws. as Paul said, "where sin abounds, Grace also abounds" "My Grace is sufficient for you." Because God is Love.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,366
1,809
113
Not before you were in the womb, but before you were formed. Psalm 139 says, your eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect.
Yes thank you for correcting
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,366
1,809
113
Wait a minute, Lucifer IS NOT a Son of God! That's snake eyes! However I think free will may have something to do with it. If God wanted pure strict involuntary obedience he could easily made clones or robots. That wouldn't be love so He made us instead We can Love as flawed as we are in spite of what happened in the garden with Adam ad Eve's freewill they and we can repent and regret our sins.

I know the Calvinists are going to try and figure a way around what I just wrote, deny free will deny the right to chose or decide anything for ourselves but the truth is the truth. We are not robots we are flawed human beings. God loves anyways in spite of our flaws. as Paul said, "where sin abounds, Grace also abounds" "My Grace is sufficient for you." Because God is Love.
Yes exactly I remember telling father how I wish I could just be his puppet and this is when he spoke to my heart that he treasures a willing child nopt a controlled one.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,503
307
83
Wait a minute, Lucifer IS NOT a Son of God! That's snake eyes! However I think free will may have something to do with it. If God wanted pure strict involuntary obedience he could easily made clones or robots. That wouldn't be love so He made us instead We can Love as flawed as we are in spite of what happened in the garden with Adam ad Eve's freewill they and we can repent and regret our sins.

I know the Calvinists are going to try and figure a way around what I just wrote, deny free will deny the right to chose or decide anything for ourselves but the truth is the truth. We are not robots we are flawed human beings. God loves anyways in spite of our flaws. as Paul said, "where sin abounds, Grace also abounds" "My Grace is sufficient for you." Because God is Love.

Job 1 (ESV)


6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.

Job 1 (ESV)


6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
That dosn't make him Gods Son. if your father sent his sons and I came along. That would not make me his son, or your brother either.

When I don't feel like witnessing to a Jehovahs witness or a Mormon. I just say Jesus is Lord, have a nice day. And slam the door.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,503
307
83
That dosn't make him Gods Son. if your father sent his sons and I came along. That would not make me his son, or your brother either.

When I don't feel like witnessing to a Jehovahs witness or a Mormon. I just say Jesus is Lord, have a nice day. And slam the door.
I guess you have a point. But if he was not God's creation, and one of God's fallen angels, where did Lucifer come from? Are the angels the sons of God?


Isaiah 14 (KJV)


12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
I guess you have a point. But if he was not God's creation, and one of God's fallen angels, where did Lucifer come from? Are the angels the sons of God?
Oh, he was God's creation alright. Everything that was, was God's creation.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,503
307
83
Oh, he was God's creation alright. Everything that was, was God's creation.
Are the angels the sons of God? Was Lucifer, the fallen angel, a son of God, before his fall?


Genesis 6 (ESV)


1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,366
1,809
113
Well we need verses for that?
I can't prove with it scripture this is just something I believe because of my personal intimate moments with him of course from I have seen scripture doesn't seem to do much good in debates like this. This isn't to say we shouldn't use scripture or base out beliefs and standing with scripture but I only know what the spirit speaks to my heart in this matter I am not trying to prove it nor should anyone believe it themselves if they disagree

I just can't help but feel something familiar about him