The easy way to spot a false grace message

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#721
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#721
gb9 said:
Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith for good works. that is not hard to understand. but for some reason, people reject, twist, and flatly refuse to believe it.
Click to expand...
We are saved by grace ( Jesus and the cross ) through faith for good works ( the fruit of new birth )
As we believe this and fulfill it, it is a lie to say we refuse to believe it.

We refuse to believe your version of the words, which is something different.
If you change the theology you have created a different faith with the same words.

So it causes the confusion you are presenting by your statement. Not that hard to
comprehend, but then you do not want to comprehend it, because that would be
accepting defeat.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#722
#722
joaniemarie said:

Peter, it doesn't matter how long you read the Bible or how long you have been saved if your heart is not willing. There are new Christians who are more willing to believe than those hardened religious baptized in lemon juice Christians.

Don't go by your "credits" go by the truth of the Word. When we "hear" it also means to believe what we are hearing from the Word apart from our human understanding. That is where faith begins to really take us where the Holy Spirit leads.

The Holy Spirit is the only one who can open our hearts to the truth. How open are we to His leading? THAT is the question. A sourpuss Christian can be so sour and hard that they are unwilling to open up to anything that sounds different to them.

So they interpret that unwillingness as a godly thing when in fact it is the very man made religious thing keeping them from growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

I hear you, It took along time for me to get comfortable with my church. (I was led here by my best friend who I led to Christ as teenagers after I was a prodigal son for 5 years)

It is a non traditional church. And did things so differently. it took awhile to even grasp that God could even use it. (they did not meet 3 times on Sunday and wed night prayer meeting, Instead they meet multiple times during the week. Their sunday service was not a pre programed what I would call "play" where everything is already laid out, Every week the same old thing, followed usually by a 20 minute sermonette. Followed by the alter call, and then you go out, and say hi to people in your body, maybe say a few words, then you will see them again MAYBE that night, or wed night, but most likely next sunday to repeat the same thing (only the diehards went to all the services, which my family was) And if you think you knew poeple in your church, You did not.. They were just acquaintances you sometimes broke bread with, thats all.

Mt wife and I went to ne a few year ago (she too was in a traditional church growing up) and we were actually bored. And wondered to ourselves is this the reason the younger generation is not there, that most of the peopel are senior citizens?

The church i grrew up focused on the word as its main priority, Although the word was what the pastor said, He could never be wrong, and you would not DARE question a man God put in charge of you. Other denominations were lesser churhces, if they were true churches at all (I remember a former pastor looked at me disdain when I told him what church I was going to)

The churuch I go to now. They focus on the word also. Their teachers have years of study, They do not claim to be inspired by God, and will even at the end of every teaching have a question and answer session putting themselves up to being slammed I I have seen it a few times, when it gets to much or too long, The teacher meets the person after CT.. I have never seen anyone leave unsatisfied with their response. (As a Home Church leader and teacher, I have to do the same, There are times it gets scary, But I have to do it also. and Not everyone ever agrees, but would rather put it out to discuss, then have anyone think I think I am all that..

We also have classes, From basic bible classes, to advanced leadership classes Some ever offer college credit, and we have an accredited bible college come and offer courses for people trying to get a degree.

We meet as a Body for fellowship, breaking of bread, Learn doctrine, and prayer, we have home church prayer meetingn on sunday, Each Cell group. men's bible study or lady,s bible study prays And each discipleship group prays. I have seen more corporate prayer here than I ever saw in my old churches (In the military, I went to many churches all over the country, where ever I was stationed) I actually know the people in my group intimately. And they know me, and we are not afraid to talk into each others lives, because WE know they know us (no hiding of stuff, like I saw in my old church where a person would leave, and you find out they were deep in sin but no one knew)

I wish I would have had this when I was growing up. I wouldl have been netter equiped when I entered the world And many of the mistake I made I probably would never have made)

 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#723
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#723
Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

Yes, and if sin does not have dominion over you that means you will no longer be a servant of sin, which means you will not be sinning. This is not rocket science, just simple deduction.

Take it step by step. Those who commit sin are servants of sin, which means sin has dominion over them because they serve it's desires.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


FreeNChrist said:
You're right it's not rocket science, so why don't you get it? You still sin and yet you still think yourself to be a believer. That's why folks keep bringing it back to you and your own sins, because your own belief system condemns you and proves you to not be what you say you are. What you are saying is that no one is a Christian because no one is without sin. So let's all just eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die, eh?
Click to expand...

This is the reason why I have asked about sinning and the Christian because the wrong "application" of scriptures can lead to a shipwrecked faith.

How would you feel all throughout your whole walk with the Lord someone was telling you " If you sin you are not born of God and you are a child of the devil - accursed child - because you sin".

Obviously you can see the damage and the potential to shipwreck your faith this would be. These things need to be addressed properly to help those viewing these threads.

All these scriptures need to be taken in context with what Christ has done for us which is why we need to be able to examine the "application" of certain scriptures that we all post about in our efforts to discuss truth.

 The "improper application" of Jesus' words could be skewed to be saying that every time you sin you become a child of the devil and so now you are a child of the devil until you stop doing that particular thing. Then you become a son of God again.

I believe that this theory is not supported by the word of God in any form whatsoever and in fact violates the whole gospel message of the grace of Christ.
 
Last edited:
G

gb9

Senior Member
#724
Jan 18, 2011
12,321
6,690
113
#724
PeterJens said:
We are saved by grace ( Jesus and the cross ) through faith for good works ( the fruit of new birth )
As we believe this and fulfill it, it is a lie to say we refuse to believe it.

We refuse to believe your version of the words, which is something different.
If you change the theology you have created a different faith with the same words.

So it causes the confusion you are presenting by your statement. Not that hard to
comprehend, but then you do not want to comprehend it, because that would be
accepting defeat.
Click to expand...
no peter, I comprehend it just fine. I don't try to interpret it 8 different ways.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#725
#725
HisHolly said:
He quotes the Bible. If he has a message you reject then you are the same as those who killed the prophets... You act as tho He wrote the scriptures he uses... Then you'd be justified in your opposition, but you are coming against the word and making it about him BC a human is quoting.. you don't think he has the right to do so..BC he's not 'perfect'...
Click to expand...
He quotes scriptures and then proceeds to present his own unique interpretation of what they mean. All he does is prove he doesn't understand the very scriptures he quotes.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#726
#726
Grace777x70 said:
Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

Yes, and if sin does not have dominion over you that means you will no longer be a servant of sin, which means you will not be sinning. This is not rocket science, just simple deduction.

Take it step by step. Those who commit sin are servants of sin, which means sin has dominion over them because they serve it's desires.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.




This is the reason why I have asked about sinning and the Christian because the wrong "application" of scriptures can lead to a shipwrecked faith.

How would you feel all throughout your whole walk with the Lord someone was telling you " If you sin you are not born of God and you are a child of the devil - accursed child - because you sin".

Obviously you can see the damage and the potential to shipwreck your faith this would be. These things need to be addressed properly to help those viewing these threads.

All these scriptures need to be taken in context with what Christ has done for us which is why we need to be able to examine the "application" of certain scriptures that we all post about in our efforts to discuss truth.

 The "improper application" of Jesus' words could be skewed to be saying that every time you sin you become a child of the devil and so now you are a child of the devil until you stop doing that particular thing. Then you become a son of God again.

I believe that this theory is not supported by the word of God in any form whatsoever and in fact violates the whole gospel message of the grace of Christ.
Click to expand...
Until he reconciles the reality of his own condition with those pet scriptures he mis-uses as a weapon against "others" he's just spitting into the wind.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#727
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#727
PeterJens said:
I can only walk in Christ. Can a branch in the vine survive without the vine, the sap, the
flow of life? No.

All you can do is project a faith of ones own created heaven with good people, and leave
Christ out of it. This is not what we are sharing, so you are saying something other than
what we are saying which is lying.

Now your interpretation, taking Christ out of things, again is a lie. So I am at a loss what
you are actually saying other than creating you own invented belief system which you
then critic. Not exactly a cogent line of thought or attack.
Click to expand...
My "interpretation" is that you are not perfectly walking in the Spirit 100% of the time as Christ did on Earth.

If you were, and all Christians were given this gift, that would surely be awesome.

But if you can't be honest, even with yourself, then there is no way for you to be an encouragement to anyone. All you will have is the condemnation of your fake 100% perfection. That's not being honest. That's not walking in the Light.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#728
#728
Do they fail to be scripture just BC he uses them?
FreeNChrist said:
Until he reconciles the reality of his own condition with those pet scriptures he mis-uses as a weapon against "others" he's just spitting into the wind.
Click to expand...
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#729
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#729
FreeNChrist said:
You still sin and yet you still think yourself to be a believer. That's why folks keep bringing it back to you and your own sins, because your own belief system condemns you and proves you to not be what you say you are.
Click to expand...
What is my sin, speaking out against sin? :)

My belief system is based on faith in the words of God which I have quoted over and over again to prove all my points and confirm the Truth. But again, all the supporters of grace being a permission slip for ongoing sin and still be saved doctrine cannot refute the words of God so they do what they do best, and that is attack the messenger, rail, slander, and falsely accuse.

You people need to repent of your sins and stop believing all the lies and false doctrine of the Devil that says sin does not matter because I'm covered by grace. But the Truth and grace of God in Christ sets one free from sin, and is not to be used as an excuse or permission slip to sin. You are servants to whom you obey, either of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness which leads to eternal life through Jesus Christ. Wake up before it is too late!
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#730
#730
Saying it's impossible to really be set free from sin is like them saying white lies are OK.. God hates lies and said we were set free.. He doesn't fail to articulate what He means
InSpiritInTruth said:
What is my sin, speaking out against sin? :)

My belief system is based on faith in the words of God which I have quoted over and over again to prove all my points and confirm the Truth. But again, all the supporters of grace being a permission slip for ongoing sin and still be saved doctrine cannot refute the words of God so they do what they do best, and that is attack the messenger, rail, slander, and falsely accuse.

You people need to repent of your sins and stop believing all the lies and false doctrine of the Devil that says sin does not matter because I'm covered by grace. But the Truth and grace of God in Christ sets one free from sin, and is not to be used as an excuse or permission slip to sin. You are servants to whom you obey, either of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness which leads to eternal life through Jesus Christ. Wake up before it is too late!
Click to expand...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#731
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#731
FreeNChrist said:
He quotes scriptures and then proceeds to present his own unique interpretation of what they mean. All he does is prove he doesn't understand the very scriptures he quotes.
Click to expand...
This is why we all need to be open to discuss the scriptures that we quote so that we are not communicating something that we don't want to and to address other people's thoughts on what we post.

I can do this same thing. Here is an example of it.

My pet theory is that "Who ever sins is not in the book of life." Here is the "truth" of God's word so if you have ever sinned - you have been blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

And Jesus said that whoever sins is a child of the devil - so all you people that have sinned are children of the devil and forever blotted out of God's book.

These are God's "words" and only reprobates don't believe the "words of God" as I have shown you. If you reject what I have just spoken - then you reject "God's words" and everyone knows there is no place for those that reject God's words.

So, just what is this that I have done?

This is how the spiritual manipulation works and if I never answer anyone's questions on my "pet theory" then this will never be exposed for what it really is.

This is really a manifestation of a work of the flesh called "witchcraft" which is the mixing of things together to get a desired result.

This is why we need to address people's "personal application" of the scriptures they post.

( For the record for those reading this post - we need to read all scriptures through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ )


 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#732
#732
InSpiritInTruth said:
What is my sin, speaking out against sin? :)

My belief system is based on faith in the words of God which I have quoted over and over again to prove all my points and confirm the Truth. But again, all the supporters of grace being a permission slip for ongoing sin and still be saved doctrine cannot refute the words of God so they do what they do best, and that is attack the messenger, rail, slander, and falsely accuse.

You people need to repent of your sins and stop believing all the lies and false doctrine of the Devil that says sin does not matter because I'm covered by grace. But the Truth and grace of God in Christ sets one free from sin, and is not to be used as an excuse or permission slip to sin. You are servants to whom you obey, either of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness which leads to eternal life through Jesus Christ. Wake up before it is too late!
Click to expand...
I do need to repent of my sins. But then, unlike you, I recognize that I do have sins to repent of. :rolleyes:
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#733
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#733
FreeNChrist said:
Until he reconciles the reality of his own condition with those pet scriptures he mis-uses as a weapon against "others" he's just spitting into the wind.
Click to expand...
I am speaking from my condition of being made free from sin, as supporters of sin are also speaking from their condition as being servants of sin, which is why they hate me for speaking out against their master, which is sin. And I have not misused the words of God, you guys just reject them as true. And yes, the sword of the Spirit is the word of God, which can also slay the wicked as well, so REPENT!

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.


Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#734
#734
You take it personal so you make what he posts personal and attack him.. If we had a red flag emoji I'd use it..
FreeNChrist said:
I do need to repent of my sins. But then, unlike you, I recognize that I do have sins to repent of. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
P

popeye

Guest
#735
#735
When we see unanswered prayer,the root is not a defenciance in heaven. It is protocol.

It is through Jesus we receive Grace,or goodness. Mercy follows grace.

Jesus stands between God and man. That is priesthood. We have a priest.

We are at a crossroad daily. We can walk in sin,or walk in the spirit. Walk intimately with Jesus.
You can not entertain sin,walk in sin,and walk INTIMATELY with Jesus.

What that is,is hoping for mercy,not walking in grace. (goodness)

Protocol
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#736
#736
InSpiritInTruth said:
I am speaking from my condition of being made free from sin, as supporters of sin are also speaking from their condition as being servants of sin, which is why they hate me for speaking out against their master, which is sin. And I have not misused the words of God, you guys just reject them as true. And yes, the sword of the Spirit is the word of God, which can also slay the wicked as well, so REPENT!

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.


Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Click to expand...
So, you're the sinless one..........I'll be danged.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#738
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#738
FreeNChrist said:
He quotes scriptures and then proceeds to present his own unique interpretation of what they mean. All he does is prove he doesn't understand the very scriptures he quotes.
Click to expand...
Scripture is set of ideas, experiences that nit together to make a whole.
It would be odd if we all had the same models, because scripture is vast and the cover
touches on so many areas, which are part of life in other spheres.

In house groups, you begin to understand we all have our own individual insights.
Many will be complementary while others mistaken. It is through discussing them
we work through to an agreed position.

The fact we have denominations testifies this has never been simple.
So trying to criticise someone for sharing is interesting, because it demonstrates
a lack of understanding where we actually are in Christ.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#739
#739
HisHolly said:
You take it personal so you make what he posts personal and attack him.. If we had a red flag emoji I'd use it..
Click to expand...
That is you making it personal. I am attacking no one. :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.