The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#981
Oct 24, 2012
16,530
490
83
#981
Everlasting-Grace said:
Its sad.

Both Armenian and Calvin views (fatalism) have major flaws in their doctrines.

The truth is Gods elect are saved (just not the way Calvin views it) and eternal security (also known by many as OSAS) is biblical fact.

Instead of studying a view. i think we would be better set to just study the word and not follow men
Click to expand...
Thank you
How about read the Bible to know God, I see the entire Bible as one big Love story to us all. To see we make choices that end up not good for us. that seem good for us at first, yet end up not good. That has been my experiences. Seeing this: now, God continues to try to get me to see what is not good for me, that appears as is good for me. I see it and yet see bad habits also, as I see now this:
The Law is best for me to see it as good for me in the long haul, over the short haul as in Psalms 1, now in the New Testament with Jesus as risen, it is Love that overcomes evil, evil is doing others wrong over wanting to not die. Even though all die in the flesh to this day all have. I see God not trying to save our flesh, rather our Souls in belief to Son's done work for them to walk new in his resurrected life of love to all, whether or not another loves us or not
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#982
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#982
Everlasting-Grace said:
John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Click to expand...
Nicodemus was of the elect of Jacob/Israel, believing in God, but not according to knowledge depending upon the old letter of the law to deliver him the same as those that Paul was praying for in Romans 10:1-3.


This was God's elect people of Jacob, surnamed Israel back in the book of numbers who were bitten by serpents for their rebelling against Moses for bringing them out of Egypt. These in John 3 are the same Jacob/Israel who have the promise of eternal life, when they are drawn away by their lust of the things of the world, should repent and look to the cross, remembering how that Jesus has healed them from their sins.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#983
Dec 18, 2021
5,938
1,872
113
#983
ForestGreenCook said:
Nicodemus was of the elect of Jacob/Israel, believing in God, but not according to knowledge depending upon the old letter of the law to deliver him the same as those that Paul was praying for in Romans 10:1-3.


This was God's elect people of Jacob, surnamed Israel back in the book of numbers who were bitten by serpents for their rebelling against Moses for bringing them out of Egypt. These in John 3 are the same Jacob/Israel who have the promise of eternal life, when they are drawn away by their lust of the things of the world, should repent and look to the cross, remembering how that Jesus has healed them from their sins.
Click to expand...
You asked how the dead can repent and see.

I showed you

Yet you excuse it away.

Don't you tire of making God out to be evil?
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#984
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#984
Mem said:
Lol. What happened to your bootlicker? Did he get banned?
Click to expand...
I keep wondering if some of the folks here are even Christians. I see no compassion— but God is aware; He knows. God bless those who are His. —Selah
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#985
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#985
Golly. I didn't realize I really haven't visited the site for two weeks?, busy season at work (hope everyone had a happy Mother's Day, btw!). I was generated at page 24 have finally only now all caught up just to find @Niki7 has gotten over the whole thing (which appeared to be as exhausting as the work week I've just finished). However, I do recall making a mental note that there really is not point in entering into any discussion as long as the lightning rod of discussion remain erected and although is now among the 'non-erect,' I'm not sure if it be rude toward my sister to continue in discussion without her blessing.... :unsure:
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#986
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#986
selahsays said:
I keep wondering if some of the folks here are even Christians. I see no compassion— but God is aware; He knows. God bless those who are His. —Selah
Click to expand...
I think it might've been you that mentioned the harvest of the earth, which I consider to be the time that the Lord sends forth his angels to gather all that offend within the earth. I consider liars as equal among murders, and so cannot afford such anymore compassion as they would murdering those that would otherwise be saved if not for falling for the deception disseminated by such false teachers.
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#987
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#987
Mem said:
I think it might've been you that mentioned the harvest of the earth, which I consider to be the time that the Lord sends forth his angels to gather all that offend within the earth. I consider liars as equal among murders, and so cannot afford such anymore compassion as they would murdering those that would otherwise be saved if not for falling for the deception disseminated by such false teachers.
Click to expand...
There sure are a lot of “kettles” in this place.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#993
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
#993
homwardbound said:
No I am nothing, just sharing, not challenging you or anyone, only share in care as agreed with your post. Not sure why you would think that about the post, the it was in context with yours, to me at least. Thanks
Click to expand...
It just needed clarification then..... Which you just did!

grace and peace ..............
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#994
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
#994
Everlasting-Grace said:
Its sad.

Both Armenian and Calvin views (fatalism) have major flaws in their doctrines.

The truth is Gods elect are saved (just not the way Calvin views it) and eternal security (also known by many as OSAS) is biblical fact.

Instead of studying a view. i think we would be better set to just study the word and not follow men
Click to expand...
The election was not to simply save us.

The election was for what to give us because God knew we would want to be saved...
The election was sealed because God was already knowing we will believe.

As a result of our election?
Only some (the church) have been chosen the be the Bride of Christ.
All other souls whom God knows will believe were not elected for the same.

Before the foundation of the earth? God elected and predestined some to be alive during the Church age.
In doing so? God was able to predestine us to be conformed to His likeness, which will become undeniable
once he gets our souls into our glorious resurrection body. A body that will be just like his own glorious body.

Moses will not be getting the same kind of resurrection body... Nor, will any OT believer.

For God "sovereignly" chose out from all believers those whom were to become the Bride for His Son!

One example:

John the Baptist did not live to enter the Church age. John himself admitted that he was not chosen to be the Lord's
bride, but said he was chosen to be the friend of the groom.


The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits ​
and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy ​
is mine, and it is now complete." John 3:29​

John the Baptist is to be resurrected as the Friend of the Groom! Not the Bride of Christ!!!!!!

There is a doctrinal learning curve that TULIP followers will need to obtain/ attain before they can be made free.

Until they do? They might remain just as unreasonable and as stubborn as certain Catholics who will keep on insisting
in doing their Rosary and Mary worship... And, likewise... they think you are the heretic!


Problem is... If we operate in our flesh, sooner or later Satan will trap us with a false doctrine which is custom made for our Adamic nature. It will just seem right to our natural way of religious thinking.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, ​
but in the end it leads to death." Proverbs 14:12​


So it is.....

grace and peace
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#996
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
#996
ForestGreenCook said:
Ok then, explain to me how the natural man becomes regenerate. Ephesians 2:1-5 plainly explains that the natural man had no choice in his regeneration.
Click to expand...
Its not having to do with becoming regenerate...

The natural man (the soulish man - psukikos) will not be able to comprehend Bible doctrine which has been designated for believers who have entered into regeneration..

But, no one is required to understand the Deity of the Jesus to become saved. The natural man would see that teaching as foolishness.

The salvation message is designed to reach a man on the level of him being flesh.
For any unbeliever can know he is a sinner.
But, the unbeliever can not understand the Deity of Christ!

Regeneration does not require knowing anything that any unregenerate person can not grasp.

The unbeliever can know he is a sinner, and that a man named Jesus Christ died on a cross for his sins!

That's all that's needed to enter into regeneration.
After regeneration? Then that man stops having the limitation he had before he was saved, and now can begin to comprehend such things that the natural man found to be foolishness.




Even the reprobate unregenerate Pharaoh could know he was a sinner!

​
Then Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron. ​
​
“This time I have sinned,” he said to them. “The LORD is in the right, ​
and I and my people are in the wrong."​
​
Exodus 9:27​


Pharaoh knew what was needed to become saved! To become regenerate!


grace and peace .............
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#1,000
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#1,000
selahsays said:
@Magenta
There's no need to act so unchristian and cruel.
Click to expand...
My comment was meant to sting as much as a vaccination might, but it was the closest I could come to illustrating my sentiment toward the behavior displayed. If you do not care so much of what I really think, then why would you start to now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.