The Error of KJV-Onlyism
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I'm pretty sure the whole human race fell by the sin of one man.
Ya beat me to it .
Ya beat me to it .
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That’s because what you are proposing is Spiritism or the New Age.
You said, I quote: "You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it."
You are saying that God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without a translation (i.e., the Bible).
Meaning, you believe that a person today can know about 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 without any Bible telling them this truth.
This implies we can just pray and talk to God today and He will tell us exactly what 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says word for word. You are saying that a person today can know about the Trinity without any Bible telling them. This implies we can just pray and talk to God and He will tell us exactly what the Bible says on the matter of the Trinity without any need for the Bible (i.e., a translation).
You are implying the Bible is some kind of secondary thing when it is how we actually get our faith (See again Romans 10:17).
Do you believe there is only one Jesus?
Or do you think there are multiple versions of Jesus?
I say this because the Bible teaches there is a symbiotic relationship between the Living Word (Jesus), and the Communicated Word (Scripture). Here is the list.
A Symbiotic Relationship Between The Living Word & the Communicated Word:
Peter is an aposte and the saints are built upon upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets (See: Ephesians 2:19-20). We are not an apostle like Peter is. He is a part of the foundation upon which we saints are built upon. An apostle is one who has seen the risen Lord (See: 1 Corinthians 9:1). The apostles wrote Scripture. We are not to write Scripture. If we add to God’s words or take away from them, there are serious consequences. This is what the Modern Bibles do that you ignore.
You said, I quote: "You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it."
You are saying that God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without a translation (i.e., the Bible).
Meaning, you believe that a person today can know about 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 without any Bible telling them this truth.
This implies we can just pray and talk to God today and He will tell us exactly what 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says word for word. You are saying that a person today can know about the Trinity without any Bible telling them. This implies we can just pray and talk to God and He will tell us exactly what the Bible says on the matter of the Trinity without any need for the Bible (i.e., a translation).
You are implying the Bible is some kind of secondary thing when it is how we actually get our faith (See again Romans 10:17).
Do you believe there is only one Jesus?
Or do you think there are multiple versions of Jesus?
I say this because the Bible teaches there is a symbiotic relationship between the Living Word (Jesus), and the Communicated Word (Scripture). Here is the list.
A Symbiotic Relationship Between The Living Word & the Communicated Word:
- Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).
- Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).
- Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).
- Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).
- Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).
- Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).
- Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).
- Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
- Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).
- Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).
- Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).
- Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).
- Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).
- Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
- Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
- Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).
- It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).
- Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).
- Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
- Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).
- Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).
- A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).
- Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).
- Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).
- Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).
- Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).
- Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
- Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).
- The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
- Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
- Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).
- Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).
- Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
- Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
- Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).
- Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).
- Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
- Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).
- Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).
- Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11).
Peter is an aposte and the saints are built upon upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets (See: Ephesians 2:19-20). We are not an apostle like Peter is. He is a part of the foundation upon which we saints are built upon. An apostle is one who has seen the risen Lord (See: 1 Corinthians 9:1). The apostles wrote Scripture. We are not to write Scripture. If we add to God’s words or take away from them, there are serious consequences. This is what the Modern Bibles do that you ignore.
Good morning .. I am just making coffee. Perhaps I will be quicker after I have some LOL
. I am just making coffee. Perhaps I will be quicker after I have some LOL
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First, before you told me I do not have to rely on a translation (Which is the Bible) to learn what God says. This implies I don’t need the Bible at all (Which is Spiritism or the New Age). You have to rely on some kind of Bible (translation) to get the faith.
Second, no believer today knows about the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 because God told them that is what the gospel said (without the Bible or a translation). They were also not told about the Trinity from God without the Bible telling them this is so, either. There are no group of believers that exists today who can make these claims and so your statements are not in line with what the Bible says or reality.
Even these translations?
1. The LOL Cat Bible.
2. The Word on the Street Translation.
3. The Queen James Bible.
4. The New World Translation (that is the Bible butchered and catered to Jehovah’s Witnesses).
5. God’s Word Translation (A heretical paraphrase).
Second, no believer today knows about the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 because God told them that is what the gospel said (without the Bible or a translation). They were also not told about the Trinity from God without the Bible telling them this is so, either. There are no group of believers that exists today who can make these claims and so your statements are not in line with what the Bible says or reality.
Even these translations?
1. The LOL Cat Bible.
2. The Word on the Street Translation.
3. The Queen James Bible.
4. The New World Translation (that is the Bible butchered and catered to Jehovah’s Witnesses).
5. God’s Word Translation (A heretical paraphrase).
And why did Adam choose to disobey God's word? Adam disobeyed because the woman was deceived by Satan, as Satan made her question and even change the word of God.
I agree that man nor the devil can affect God's ability to preserve his word. Maybe the most valuable piece of written work in history was the original ten commandments written by God himself. Moses destroyed them. Only Moses saw the original. God had Moses make a copy. That copy was the inspired word of God. Man should not place more emphasis on the originals than God.
I agree that man nor the devil can affect God's ability to preserve his word. Maybe the most valuable piece of written work in history was the original ten commandments written by God himself. Moses destroyed them. Only Moses saw the original. God had Moses make a copy. That copy was the inspired word of God. Man should not place more emphasis on the originals than God.
Some people are now even making the Chosen TV Series into helping them to understand the Bible better.
They have study guides for the TV series. Yet, they quote from the Book of Mormon and the show is produced by Mormons.
This is the state of Christianity today. They are making a fictional TV show on the same level as Scripture.
Then again, when you can just change the Bible with yet a new Modern version, the words of God are not really revered or held up with any high regard like in the days of the past.
They have study guides for the TV series. Yet, they quote from the Book of Mormon and the show is produced by Mormons.
This is the state of Christianity today. They are making a fictional TV show on the same level as Scripture.
Then again, when you can just change the Bible with yet a new Modern version, the words of God are not really revered or held up with any high regard like in the days of the past.
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Reread your own post above - you're making all sorts of assumptions from things I've never wrote or even implicated to muddy and distract from the true issue at hand. Notice how you keep veering the subject away from your idolizing one translation of the Bible over others by falsely accusing me of spiritism, adding to the Bible and not believing the Bible at all?
Doing that doesn't help your cause. It's pretty dishonest. How is clinging to KJV-only making you a better Christian than others? Because if it actually helps you to obey and please God more, you wouldn't be making false accusations against other Christians. This is another reason why I reject KJV-only because it doesn't do anything to make Christians better and it only seems to attract wonky people.
Anyway, I going to leave it here and trust this over to God like the Bible actually says.
🍹
I don't disagree with your conclusion. But I don't see anywhere in scripture that calls the act of translation as being inspired. The KJV is an excellent translation. Great care was taken to preserve the original meaning. But no translation can capture the full meaning of another language, regardless of the care taken.
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Any Bible in existence today is a translation. There are no originals. You basically said before we do not need a translation but we just need God (Which implies no need for the Bible, which is Spiritism). Maybe your words are not communicating properly what you are actually believe.
If you are saying we do need to have the Bible (i.e., a translation) to learn about the Trinity, or the gospel, then we are in agreement.
Where would disagree is on is just using any Bible translation as our authority and it is fine. I would say I disagree with this approach because Modern Bibles teach false doctrines. For example: The NLT teaches Jesus gave up His divine privileges when this is false. Some Modern Bibles leave room for a person to commit abortion. Some Modern Bibles remove the word “fornication” altogether and you wonder why current Christianity does not have a problem with sex before marriage these days. I also can find wonky people in the Modern Translation movement. I have argued with liberals before who hate the KJB.
As for being KJV-Only:
Well, again, I am Core KJB, and not KJV-Only.
As I said, the King James Bible is more core foundational text that I believe is without error, but I do use Modern Bibles to help flesh out what the archaic wording says at times in the King James Bible. I am not looking to change what the KJB says. I look at Modern Bibles like I would a dictionary. They can be helpful tools, but that does not mean they are infallible.
How does being Core KJB make a person a better Christian?
Because of the doctrine. There are no false doctrines in the KJB, unlike Modern Bibles.
But even if a person does believe in the King James Bible is the pure Word of God, that does not mean they are instantly changed and they are a better believer. A KJB believer can also reject the very words within their own Bible without them even realizing it.
For example:; I am strongly against Peter Ruckman, Gail Riplinger, and their wrong hateful attitudes. Gail Riplinger has also been known to misrepresent the facts to defend the KJB, as well. There are KJB Believers who are Calvinists. I disagree with Calvinism strongly. So just because somebody is for the KJB as the pure words of God, does not mean they cannot fall prey to other false doctrines and or they cannot become unloving people. Peter Ruckman was a really mean guy from what I hear and he cussed a lot. Not a true Christian in my view. I will not read his works or watch his sermons. But there are loving Christians who are for the KJB. There are more scholarly KJB believers like David Cloud from WayofLife.org. This is a man who has spent thousands of dollars reading books on both sides of the issue and he did not start off KJB Only. He has done some of the most in-depth research on this topic unlike others.
If you are saying we do need to have the Bible (i.e., a translation) to learn about the Trinity, or the gospel, then we are in agreement.
Where would disagree is on is just using any Bible translation as our authority and it is fine. I would say I disagree with this approach because Modern Bibles teach false doctrines. For example: The NLT teaches Jesus gave up His divine privileges when this is false. Some Modern Bibles leave room for a person to commit abortion. Some Modern Bibles remove the word “fornication” altogether and you wonder why current Christianity does not have a problem with sex before marriage these days. I also can find wonky people in the Modern Translation movement. I have argued with liberals before who hate the KJB.
As for being KJV-Only:
Well, again, I am Core KJB, and not KJV-Only.
As I said, the King James Bible is more core foundational text that I believe is without error, but I do use Modern Bibles to help flesh out what the archaic wording says at times in the King James Bible. I am not looking to change what the KJB says. I look at Modern Bibles like I would a dictionary. They can be helpful tools, but that does not mean they are infallible.
How does being Core KJB make a person a better Christian?
Because of the doctrine. There are no false doctrines in the KJB, unlike Modern Bibles.
But even if a person does believe in the King James Bible is the pure Word of God, that does not mean they are instantly changed and they are a better believer. A KJB believer can also reject the very words within their own Bible without them even realizing it.
For example:; I am strongly against Peter Ruckman, Gail Riplinger, and their wrong hateful attitudes. Gail Riplinger has also been known to misrepresent the facts to defend the KJB, as well. There are KJB Believers who are Calvinists. I disagree with Calvinism strongly. So just because somebody is for the KJB as the pure words of God, does not mean they cannot fall prey to other false doctrines and or they cannot become unloving people. Peter Ruckman was a really mean guy from what I hear and he cussed a lot. Not a true Christian in my view. I will not read his works or watch his sermons. But there are loving Christians who are for the KJB. There are more scholarly KJB believers like David Cloud from WayofLife.org. This is a man who has spent thousands of dollars reading books on both sides of the issue and he did not start off KJB Only. He has done some of the most in-depth research on this topic unlike others.
What language was Joseph speaking in the following passage? The words of Joseph was Egyptian, and yet, the "original" had Joseph's words translated into Hebrew, and that translation into Hebrew is the inspired words of God. Shall I give you more examples throughout scripture? Translations can be the inspired words of God. Words matter to God, not just meaning or intent. Anyway, how can we truly know the meaning or intent without the correct words? We do not need a word for word translation, just the precise words in English.
Genesis 42
18 And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live; for I fear God:
19 If ye be true men, let one of your brethren be bound in the house of your prison: go ye, carry corn for the famine of your houses:
20 But bring your youngest brother unto me; so shall your words be verified, and ye shall not die. And they did so.
21 And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.
22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.
Genesis 42
18 And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live; for I fear God:
19 If ye be true men, let one of your brethren be bound in the house of your prison: go ye, carry corn for the famine of your houses:
20 But bring your youngest brother unto me; so shall your words be verified, and ye shall not die. And they did so.
21 And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.
22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.
