The false claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority ...

[Scotth1960]

The False Claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine

"Sola Scriptura: The Proof-Texts

"Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matt. 22:29 KJV).

"It is evident that the Protestant principle of sola Scriptura entails much more than a mere affirmation of the authority of the Bible. It is, in fact, a complex of interrelated ideas and assumptions. When Protestants read the Scriptures, they bring these assumptions with them, whether they realize it or not.
"For those reared, as I was, in an Evangelical milieu, passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and other texts mentioned below "obviously" support the doctrine of sola Scriptura. The "self-evidence" of this support, however, is due not to the text istelf, but to the assumptions that one brings to it. If one takes one's Bible, consisting of exactly 66 books -- no more, no less -- and opens it with the a priori assumption that the text is self-authenticating and self-interpreting and that Christian faith itself is capable of being reduced to verbal formulae, then one will find in the text exactly what one expects to find there.
"The truth of the matter is -- and this is an irksome truth for Evangelicals to confront -- that the doctrine of sola Scriptura is not scriptural. In other words, the claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine is not found in the Bible. It is analogous to saying, "It is absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth." To understand this, we must carefully examine those texts that are usually offered as proof of the doctrine of sola Scriptura. ...." [pages 120-121: THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church. by Clark Carlton. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Press, 1997.
Regina Orthodox Press Online Store

God bless you. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Strangelove]

Why dont you defend your cult first?

LINK: Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism). (it is)

 

[FSUBoy966]

Why dont you defend your cult first?

LINK: Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism). (it is)

Would you grow up? Eastern Orthodoxy isn't a cult, it's an offshoot of Catholicism and has legitimized itself as a religion. Techincally ALL of Christianity could be called a cult by modern definitions.

 

[Strangelove]

Would you grow up? Eastern Orthodoxy isn't a cult, it's an offshoot of Catholicism and has legitimized itself as a religion. Techincally ALL of Christianity could be called a cult by modern definitions.

Pretty much most of it bud. you got that right.

Lolz...legitimized itslelf? In who's eyes?

 

[SantoSubito]

Pretty much most of it bud. you got that right.

Lolz...legitimized itslelf? In who's eyes?

Apparently in everyones eyes except yours and a small group of fundamentalists in America. But I wager you'll say something along the lines of "You're blind to the truth".

But to use a form of a remark you used in another thread: "Come back in 1990 years when your church has been around for a while, then we'll talk."

 

[Strangelove]

Apparently in everyones eyes except yours and a small group of fundamentalists in America. But I wager you'll say something along the lines of "You're blind to the truth".

But to use a form of a remark you used in another thread: "Come back in 1990 years when your church has been around for a while, then we'll talk."

My Church has been around longer than yours. Not much longer...as the judaizers infiltrated it pretty quickly, but longer.

 

[zone]

The False Claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine

tricky. but epic fail.

 

[zone]

My Church has been around longer than yours. Not much longer...as the judaizers infiltrated it pretty quickly, but longer.

lol.....ain't it the truth?

 

[SantoSubito]

My Church has been around longer than yours. Not much longer...as the judaizers infiltrated it pretty quickly, but longer.

Pray tell, when was this until know unknown ancient church founded?

(Awaits Baptist style trail of blood theory)

 

[zone]

Pray tell, when was this until know unknown ancient church founded?

(Awaits Baptist style trail of blood theory)

hi santo.
no, i think he means right from the Apostolic era and Pentecost forward.
sinners saved by Grace through faith when they heard the testimonies and believed, and later when they had access to canon and believed.

Rome kinda made a big display and all, but some of us never had any part in that.

just the same Gospel all this time.
later my brothers martin and william and the boyz had to retrieve some stuff cuzza the printing press and Providence.
that's all.
love zone.

 

[Strangelove]

Pray tell, when was this until know unknown ancient church founded?

(Awaits Baptist style trail of blood theory)

Round about here:

(Acts 2:1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

(Acts 2:2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

 

[Strangelove]

hi santo.
no, i think he means right from the Apostolic era and Pentecost forward.
sinners saved by Grace through faith when they heard the testimonies and believed, and later when they had access to canon and believed.

Rome kinda made a big display and all, but some of us never had any part in that.

just the same Gospel all this time.
later my brothers martin and william and the boyz had to retrieve some stuff cuzza the printing press and Providence.
that's all.
love zone.

COKE...

LOVE YOU SISTER ZONE.

 

[zone]

COKE...

LOVE YOU SISTER ZONE.

love you bud

 

[superdave5221]

The False Claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine

"Sola Scriptura: The Proof-Texts

"Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matt. 22:29 KJV).

"
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

You use this verse to prove your point?

Who is Jesus talking to here? Saducees. The Saducees did not believe in the authority of the prophets, nor the historical or poetic books of the O.T. Scriptures. That is why Jesus uses a quote from Exodus 3:6 (in the Torah) in verse 32 of this same chapter. He knew that the Saducees would not have accepted some of the better known references such as Isa. 26:19, Daniel 12:2, or Ezekiel 37:12-14.

But the point is that Jesus referred to the authority of the Scriptures in answering the questions of the Saducees.

When Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness, what did he appeal to?

Luke 4: 4 And Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.' "

Luke 4: 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' "

Once again, Jesus referred to the authority of the Scriptures.

Now, who or what should the Scriptures share authority with? Don't say Jesus Christ, or Holy Spirit, or God the Father, for the the Scriptures are given their authority by Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit and God the Father. The Holy Spirit is the author of the Scriptures. This is what gives them their authority.

Should we share that authority with popes? These are the same popes who have proven themselves not only fallable, even when speaking for God, but also antichrists in their behavior and doctrine over the centuries. Is this who you would have us share authority to speak for God with?

Perhaps we should share it with self proclaimed prophets? People who come along who claim to speak for God, and yet their words differ from Scripture. We should obey them and ignore that which we know is God's word?

2 Timothy 3: 14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

What was Paul speaking of here? Popes and self proclaimed prophets? I think not.

 

[Fire7]

Would you grow up? Eastern Orthodoxy isn't a cult, it's an offshoot of Catholicism and has legitimized itself as a religion. Techincally ALL of Christianity could be called a cult by modern definitions.

You are so right. I was actually going to say this right before I strolled down and saw you beat me to the punch. Christianity, technically, IS a cult. If you don;t believe it just look up the word "cult in the dictionary or the thesaurus. But to put it in the simplest of terms, a cult is an EXCLUSIVE set of religious beliefs. And Christianity is proobably the most exclusive religion of all ("Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation").

 

[SantoSubito]

Round about here:

(Acts 2:1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

(Acts 2:2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

We also claim to have started at Pentecost so that really proves nothing. I'm going to need some bona fide historical documentation.

 

[systemdown101]

Christianity, technically, IS a cult.

I don't think Christianity is a cult even in technical terms. I mean ... what makes a cult? A place where questioning and dissent are discouraged, a place where the leadership dictates everything about what the laity does even down to the smallest details, such as who to date, marry, where to work and suchlike, one where it's usually living leader is unaccountable to few, if any, laws, even those of the larger society it lives in, and is often looked upon as a messiah-type of some sort, and are usually required to break off contact with former friends and family members outside the group. Also, it usually requires lots of money from members who sometimes donate their entire life savings to the group, or to its leader.

An interesting sidenote to some cults is that in order to progress within the group, you need to pay for more "education" in order to be promoted. You see this happen in Scientology. This seperates many cults from Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, for instance ... you want the precepts of the religion, go to a library, there's the Bible or Quran right there.

I think I read somewhere that the only part of the OT that wasn't referenced anywhere in the NT was the Song of Solomon. I'll have to look that up as I can't offhand remember where some of the minor prophets were mentioned.

 

[Strangelove]

We also claim to have started at Pentecost so that really proves nothing. I'm going to need some bona fide historical documentation.

Why do I need anything other than Gods Word as proof?

 

[dscherck]

Why do I need anything other than Gods Word as proof?

But you forget that even the Scriptures acknowledge Holy Tradition as being a part of God's Word as well.

 

[zone]

In other words, the claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine is not found in the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

here's your only proof text for infallible oral traditions.
so let's get it out of the way first.

why did paul say that?

a) he was establishing a doctrine that men's oral traditions ("our spoken word") are equal in authority and infalliblity to the scriptures ("our letter")

b) he and the other apostles were still alive, receiving new revelation, travelling and establishing doctrine by words, and by letters, and had total authority granted by Christ to do so.

who did Paul mean when he said: "the traditions that you were taught by us"?

any other proof texts?

It is analogous to saying, "It is absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth."

cute.

who actually believes this?

a) sola scriptura believers
b) post-modernist emergents/mystics
c) atheists

who would make such a ridiculous claim pinning it on sola scriptura believers?

a) atheists
b) charismatics who teach infallible personal revelations (apostolic succession)
c) institutional giants who teach infallible oral traditions (apostolic succession)