The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Mar 4, 2020
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"Gods wrath did not come upon Jesus"

Such an outrageous proposal is within a hairs breath of heresy....IMO. And I'm being very generous in saying so.

On the contrary, the very mechanism by which we have been justified is God's righteous wrath and judgment being expiated and exhausted on a completely innocent substitute. This substitute having the Divine Character of Infinity, which could absorb all of this wrath, then die, and then be resurrected afterword by His own power and authority.

And people have the audacity to say that Jesus isn't God. Of course Jesus is God. Who else could achieve such a feat?
Which verse says God’s wrath went upon Jesus? This should be easy if there is one. As far as I know there is no such doctrine as God being angry at Jesus for anything and yes of course Jesus is God.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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Romans 10:9-10

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

I would say just continue to trust in the Lord once you are born again of His Spirit. We repent when sin occurs in our walk with Jesus and He is faithful to forgive us (1 John:1:9).

Eph. 2:8-9
Eph 4:29-32
Gal. 3:26
2 Cor. 5:17
Rom. 8:9
Rom. 8:14-17
2 Tim. 2:11-13
1 Peter 1:3-4
I would add one thing: ALWAYS instantly forgive others - never hold a grudge.

If we don't forgive, then the Father will not forgive us.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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Which verse says God’s wrath went upon Jesus? This should be easy if there is one. As far as I know there is no such doctrine as God being angry at Jesus for anything and yes of course Jesus is God.
Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Which verse says God’s wrath went upon Jesus? This should be easy if there is one. As far as I know there is no such doctrine as God being angry at Jesus for anything and yes of course Jesus is God.
Good grief man tell us you're kidding. Such a statement comes as a shock to me at least.
 

tanakh

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Dec 1, 2015
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Romans 10:9-10

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

I would say just continue to trust in the Lord once you are born again of His Spirit. We repent when sin occurs in our walk with Jesus and He is faithful to forgive us (1 John:1:9).

Eph. 2:8-9
Eph 4:29-32
Gal. 3:26
2 Cor. 5:17
Rom. 8:9
Rom. 8:14-17
2 Tim. 2:11-13
1 Peter 1:3-4

I fully agree with this but if you follow some teachings about the rapture in particular Scofield and any pre tribulation enthusiasts that follow his line of thought you enter a weird world where some kind of special class of people are raptured. People left behind need to have had the nous to read the Late great Planet Earth or more recently the whole set of La Haye books before they are in with a chance as well as the book of Revelation, Daniel and most if not all the rest the Bible. Meanwhile whilst they enter this massive crash course the world is falling apart around them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Good grief man tell us you're kidding. Such a statement comes as a shock to me at least.
That’s what I thought. Nothing but slander.

Where’s your verse that says the wrath of God was upon Jesus? I’m waiting.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
That says it pleased the Lord. Nothing about the wrath of God being upon Jesus. Try again. Surely you have more than one passage composed of two verses that props up your doctrine.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I fully agree with this but if you follow some teachings about the rapture in particular Scofield and any pre tribulation enthusiasts that follow his line of thought you enter a weird world where . People left behind need to have had the nous to read the Late great Planet Earth or more recently the whole set of La Haye books before they are in with a chance as well as the book of Revelation, Daniel and most if not all the rest the Bible. Meanwhile whilst they enter this massive crash course the world is falling apart around them.
"some kind of special class of people are raptured"

No, you're wrong about that......evidently you've got bad information. All of the Church every single solitary one of them are raptured without exception. Nobody gets left behind that is a myth. There are no distinctions of class whatsoever. At the pre-trib rapture event there are no Christian believers left on planet earth.

You must understand that AFTER the rapture there are people on earth who WILL COME to believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. These are the tribulation Saints. They are distinct from the Church......because they are not the Bride of Christ! They are elect of God yes, but GUESTS at the wedding supper. Not the Bride.

The Church is ONE (BODY) and done.......starts at Pentecost ends at the PRE-TRIB rapture.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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That says it pleased the Lord. Nothing about the wrath of God being upon Jesus. Try again. Surely you have more than one passage composed of two verses that props up your doctrine.
If you don't believe that the wrath of God was upon Jesus in place of those whom He redeemed by His blood......you have got far far bigger problems than eschatology to sort out.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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If you don't believe that the wrath of God was upon Jesus in place of those whom He redeemed by His blood......you have got far far bigger problems than eschatology to sort out.
I don’t have any problems whatsoever. You better look in the mirror because you’re the one who is saying God had wrath against Jesus. I did some searching and there’s no such verses that say such things.

Many church denominations are infested with heresies and doctrines of demons. If you aren’t careful you’ll fall victim to them and repeat them to others.

If you have verses that say God put His wrath on Jesus I’m all ears and you’d do well to inform people rather than just say they have a big problem. That’s called pearl-clutching.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Which verse says God’s wrath went upon Jesus? This should be easy if there is one. As far as I know there is no such doctrine as God being angry at Jesus for anything and yes of course Jesus is God.
It is a major aspect of the gospel of Jesus Christ that He took upon Himself the wrath and justice of Almighty God that we deserved.

The word "propitiation" in scripture means "appeasement of wrath".
 
Aug 5, 2021
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Romans 10:9-10

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

I would say just continue to trust in the Lord once you are born again of His Spirit. We repent when sin occurs in our walk with Jesus and He is faithful to forgive us (1 John:1:9).

Eph. 2:8-9
Eph 4:29-32
Gal. 3:26
2 Cor. 5:17
Rom. 8:9
Rom. 8:14-17
2 Tim. 2:11-13
1 Peter 1:3-4
Also, we should be looking for the 'blessed hope' of our Lord in Titus 2:13. Phillipians 3:20-21 is another important verse I could have included in that list.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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I fully agree with this but if you follow some teachings about the rapture in particular Scofield and any pre tribulation enthusiasts that follow his line of thought you enter a weird world where some kind of special class of people are raptured. People left behind need to have had the nous to read the Late great Planet Earth or more recently the whole set of La Haye books before they are in with a chance as well as the book of Revelation, Daniel and most if not all the rest the Bible. Meanwhile whilst they enter this massive crash course the world is falling apart around them.
It is for SURE church goers that believe they are "Christian" but have never been born again will be left behind. They are not "In Christ."
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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That says it pleased the Lord. Nothing about the wrath of God being upon Jesus. Try again. Surely you have more than one passage composed of two verses that props up your doctrine.
I rather think, God's wrath was directed against our sins that Jesus carried, not against Jesus. There should be no question that God has wrath against sin. Anyway, this is not the subject of the thread.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
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It is a major aspect of the gospel of Jesus Christ that He took upon Himself the wrath and justice of Almighty God that we deserved.

The word "propitiation" in scripture means "appeasement of wrath".
Now we’re getting somewhere. Appeasement of wrath I agree with, took upon Himself the wrath of God is absent from scriptures. The message of the gospel is that God sent Jesus because He loved the world, not because He wanted to appease His wrath against humanity.

Kindly show me any verses that say God poured His wrath out on Jesus, or that Jesus absorbed God’s wrath, or something of that nature and I’ll believe it.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
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I rather think, God's wrath was directed against our sins that Jesus carried, not against Jesus. There should be no question that God has wrath against sin. Anyway, this is not the subject of the thread.
Yea I agree with that the wrath was directed at sin because the sacrificial Lamb bore those sins. Jesus Himself was not the object of wrath.

yes back to the topic of the thread now…
 
Jan 31, 2021
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It is for SURE church goers that believe they are "Christian" but have never been born again will be left behind. They are not "In Christ."
No one will be left behind, because no one is going to heaven when they receive their glorified bodies.

The Bible teaches there is ONE resurrection, which will include living believers. All the dead and living believers receive their glorified bodies at the same event.

Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.

Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.

The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.

Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.

Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Verse 3......"THE DEPARTURE" aka Rapture. Apostasy is a misnomer.

No, Apostasy is a gateway to receive the mark of the beast. Pretribs teach that taking part in the "Apostasia" is a good thing. The irony is massive.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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That says it pleased the Lord. Nothing about the wrath of God being upon Jesus. Try again. Surely you have more than one passage composed of two verses that props up your doctrine.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


H1792
דָּכָא
dâkâ'
daw-kaw'
A primitive root (compare H1794) to crumble; transitively to bruise (literally or figuratively): - beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite.
Total KJV occurrences: 18


In a figurative sense bruising here can also be a humbling. We see in the verse that this humbling happens before he was offered for sin known as the cross.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


G5218
ὑπακοή
hupakoē
hoop-ak-o-ay'
From G5219; attentive hearkening, that is, (by implication) compliance or submission: - obedience, (make) obedient, obey (-ing).
Total KJV occurrences: 15


Christ prayed that there could be another way than the cross and Father denied this request which humbled Christ into submission, causing him to accept that the cross was the only way. This was a lesson of obedience. This event also took place just before he was offered for sin known as the cross. No wrath from God the father upon God the son is found here, or anywhere in the bible.

It's odd that the same people who say the wrath of God will not come upon the churchsay the wrath of God came upon Jesus! He founded the church!
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
No one will be left behind, because no one is going to heaven when they receive their glorified bodies.

The Bible teaches there is ONE resurrection, which will include living believers. All the dead and living believers receive their glorified bodies at the same event.

Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.

Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.

The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.

Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.

Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
You can stay begin if you wish, and it seems that is the choice you have made. You COULD believe God for His escape plan, but you want to face the Antichrist. So be it.
 
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