The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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^ @ewq1938 , so in your viewpoint, the entire Church which is His body is WAITING FOR the "7 yr period" (or perhaps 3.5-yr period, in your view [the "GT" alone / SECOND HALF of the "7 yr period]) in order to experience "persecution [/TO BE persecuted]".
Laughable.
(Thus, 99.99% of "the Church [which is His body]" will MISS IT ENTIRELY, b/c they died prior to that future, LIMITED time-period [3.5 yrs ("GT")... or 7 yrs].)
For the readers, I reiterate what I'd put:
Laughable.
(Thus, 99.99% of "the Church [which is His body]" will MISS IT ENTIRELY, b/c they died prior to that future, LIMITED time-period [3.5 yrs ("GT")... or 7 yrs].)
For the readers, I reiterate what I'd put:
Then why rapture it? This one generation can't take what all the other ones have? Is death of the flesh harder to take in the year 2033 than it was in 1033 or 33? What is the issue? What is it Christians can't handle? What part of being tempted is too much for Christians today? Paul was delivered from all kinds of things. Do you think any one Christian will go through more than he did? Is there a reason God would have no problem with Paul or His only Begotten Son but would with you? I don't understand why you are so different that everyone else has ever been.
You are mis-reading what I've put, if you think I've stated that WE, today [/in our day and era], MISS OUT on it.
I've stated that the Church which is His body HAS EXPERIENCED IT *throughout its existence* (since the first century--Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]...
we still EXIST, don't we?!?
[if "YES," then SO DOES the "persecutions and tribulations" and "sufferings" and "troubles"--FOR US... in the HERE AND NOW!! (we're not WAITING for the "7-yr period" IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE it!!)]
Secondly, it seems you (along with some others) are not grasping the PURPOSE [/purposes] of the future, specific, LIMITED time-period that is the "7-yrs [the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period, with its SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS and its "man of sin"]"... when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Rev5:6, Isa3:13, etc)
I've stated that the Church which is His body HAS EXPERIENCED IT *throughout its existence* (since the first century--Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]...
we still EXIST, don't we?!?
[if "YES," then SO DOES the "persecutions and tribulations" and "sufferings" and "troubles"--FOR US... in the HERE AND NOW!! (we're not WAITING for the "7-yr period" IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE it!!)]
Secondly, it seems you (along with some others) are not grasping the PURPOSE [/purposes] of the future, specific, LIMITED time-period that is the "7-yrs [the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period, with its SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS and its "man of sin"]"... when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Rev5:6, Isa3:13, etc)
Those who don't take the mark of the beast. The 'alive and remaining' when Christ returns. THE him that hath an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. To HIM that overcome I will give.....
Most of the Christians will be worshipping Satan because they won't know it is Satan they will believe it is Christ returned. WHY?
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Why?
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The Lord Jesus Christ can not come pre trib rapture the church because of THE VERSE ABOVE. IF HE were to come for ANY REASON BEFORE THE WORKING OF SATAN His own words would BECOME LIES. And He can't lie.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (seen any of this lately?)
It isn't right/righteous to tell people that GOD changes for one generation and one generation only WHEN GOD SAYS HE DOESN'T CHANGE.
WE CAN'T HAVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT THAT MAKE VOID THE WORDS OF GOD.
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
'thy enemies haven't been made his footstool' pre trib, they are all just starting to do their thing. SO NOW HE IS LEAVING?
THERE IS NO WAY GOD FORGOT TO MENTION IT EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED.
THERE IS NO WAY 'THE BIGGEST MIRACLE BY FAR FAR FAR' HAS NOT ONE DETAIL but I can tell you what kind of fish I can eat and what one I can't because of its fins and scales. It is so incongruous it's hard to believe the theory still has life.
THERE WOULD BE NO WAY FOR ANYONE TO EVER COME TO FAITH AGAIN AFTER 2 BILLION PEOPLE DISAPPEARED. EVERYONE WOULD KNOW FOR SURE THERE IS A GOD AND WHEN SATAN TRIED TO PERFORM ANY SIGN OR WONDER IT WOULD BE MET WITH RIDICULE. WHO WOULD FOR A SECOND BELIEVE HE WAS CHRIST RETURNED AFTER THAT?
IT WOULD TAKE OVER 7 YEARS ALONE TO OVERCOME THE CHAOS THAT WOULD CAUSE ON THE PLANET. THINK ABOUT WHAT COVID DID IN JUST A FEW MONTHS. HAS ANYONE WHO THINKS PRE TRIB EVER THOUGHT IT THROUGH? CAUSE I HAVE AND IT CAUSES MORE CONFLICTS IN THE BIBLE THAN IN REALITY. HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO CLEAN UP 2 BILLION BODIES. AND PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT 2 BILLION THE FLESH AND BLOOD EARTHY BODIES ARE GOING TO HEAVEN ALL AT ONCE.
Most of the Christians will be worshipping Satan because they won't know it is Satan they will believe it is Christ returned. WHY?
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Why?
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The Lord Jesus Christ can not come pre trib rapture the church because of THE VERSE ABOVE. IF HE were to come for ANY REASON BEFORE THE WORKING OF SATAN His own words would BECOME LIES. And He can't lie.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (seen any of this lately?)
It isn't right/righteous to tell people that GOD changes for one generation and one generation only WHEN GOD SAYS HE DOESN'T CHANGE.
WE CAN'T HAVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT THAT MAKE VOID THE WORDS OF GOD.
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
'thy enemies haven't been made his footstool' pre trib, they are all just starting to do their thing. SO NOW HE IS LEAVING?
THERE IS NO WAY GOD FORGOT TO MENTION IT EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED.
THERE IS NO WAY 'THE BIGGEST MIRACLE BY FAR FAR FAR' HAS NOT ONE DETAIL but I can tell you what kind of fish I can eat and what one I can't because of its fins and scales. It is so incongruous it's hard to believe the theory still has life.
THERE WOULD BE NO WAY FOR ANYONE TO EVER COME TO FAITH AGAIN AFTER 2 BILLION PEOPLE DISAPPEARED. EVERYONE WOULD KNOW FOR SURE THERE IS A GOD AND WHEN SATAN TRIED TO PERFORM ANY SIGN OR WONDER IT WOULD BE MET WITH RIDICULE. WHO WOULD FOR A SECOND BELIEVE HE WAS CHRIST RETURNED AFTER THAT?
IT WOULD TAKE OVER 7 YEARS ALONE TO OVERCOME THE CHAOS THAT WOULD CAUSE ON THE PLANET. THINK ABOUT WHAT COVID DID IN JUST A FEW MONTHS. HAS ANYONE WHO THINKS PRE TRIB EVER THOUGHT IT THROUGH? CAUSE I HAVE AND IT CAUSES MORE CONFLICTS IN THE BIBLE THAN IN REALITY. HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO CLEAN UP 2 BILLION BODIES. AND PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT 2 BILLION THE FLESH AND BLOOD EARTHY BODIES ARE GOING TO HEAVEN ALL AT ONCE.
I am sure you do see it that way. But what choice do you have? Pre trib rapture skews everything you see and believe. I understand the PLAN OF GOD. PLEASE remember, I read AND BELIEVE what is written, no excuse, no explanation. EVERY SINGLE VERSE YOU USE MUST BE MODIFIED. I see you keep skipping all the hard stuff and keep going to the same ole same ole. If you don't answer the other question you will never get out of there.
LETS START with 4:13 Thess Paul giving comfort about what happens when we die. Christ rose and so we rise and come back with HIM. That is what is written. That is what I believe. DO YOU?
We are told there will be no gathering until after the workings of Satan. That is what is written. That is what I believe. DO YOU?
God remains the same and is not a respecter of persons. I believe that is truth. DO YOU?
Can you answer a single one of those with a yes or a no or does everyone require an explanation?
Can you give a single verse that states EITHER God will come get the church or that God takes the church to heaven?
Christ told us he foretold us all things. Please what words did Christ use in reference to this absolutely unbelievable miracle He was going to perform before the day of vengeance?
LETS START with 4:13 Thess Paul giving comfort about what happens when we die. Christ rose and so we rise and come back with HIM. That is what is written. That is what I believe. DO YOU?
We are told there will be no gathering until after the workings of Satan. That is what is written. That is what I believe. DO YOU?
God remains the same and is not a respecter of persons. I believe that is truth. DO YOU?
Can you answer a single one of those with a yes or a no or does everyone require an explanation?
Can you give a single verse that states EITHER God will come get the church or that God takes the church to heaven?
Christ told us he foretold us all things. Please what words did Christ use in reference to this absolutely unbelievable miracle He was going to perform before the day of vengeance?
I am not sure what is going on. The Tribulation is for a bunch of different reason. Persecution comes to PROVE and test. It gets rid of a bunch of stuff that catches on fire around God before we are around God.
BUT MORE IMPORTANT that I don't think that many take into account is JUDGMENT.
JUST AS WE need to be PROVED AND TO RECEIVE REWARDS, the evil of this world need to be JUDGED ALSO and THEIR DEEDS are what get them into the lake of fire.
THOSE EVIL DEEDS DON'T FALL UPON EACH OTHER, THEY COME UPON THE 'SHEEP AMONG WOLVES'. That is how we are sent out into the world.
GOD HAS TO HAVE EVIDENCE TO JUDGE.
WE ARE WORKING FOR OUR FUTURE. WE ARE HELPING GOD WITH WHAT HE NEEDS TO RID THE 'ETERNAL WORLD' OF EVIL.
IF WE aren't around to be the sheep, the wolves WOULDN'T BE GOING INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Then what? WHY DO YOU THINK CHRIST ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE KILLED? SO SATAN COULD BE KILLED.
Not sure what you mean by the bold ^ , especially when I've stated repeatedly that:
Where am I saying that we get to "skip" all the hard stuff? ^
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I suspect that you've not yet grasped what I've put in past posts about the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (i.e. the "7 yrs"):
--"things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"--Rev1:1 [ / 4:1 / 1:19c (INCLUDING the "SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS"--what was "SHOW[N]" to John starting in 4:1--i.e. the FUTURE aspects of the Book)];
--"avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"--Luke 18:8 (see also "in flaming fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" 2Th1:8... which is NOT merely during "a singular 24-hr day" as some suppose; see also Lam2:3-4 (and its parallel language in 2Th2:[7b-]8a; see Revelation's "7 angels" [for the Trumpets and Vials" which occur over the course of SOME TIME, within the "7 yrs" (as do the SEALS)]);
--"shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" Rom16:20 (addressed specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; "know ye not that WE shall JUDGE ANGELS" 1Cor6:3,[14]);
...I need to close this post quickly (adverb). BBL!
Where am I saying that we get to "skip" all the hard stuff? ^
____________
I suspect that you've not yet grasped what I've put in past posts about the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (i.e. the "7 yrs"):
--"things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"--Rev1:1 [ / 4:1 / 1:19c (INCLUDING the "SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS"--what was "SHOW[N]" to John starting in 4:1--i.e. the FUTURE aspects of the Book)];
--"avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"--Luke 18:8 (see also "in flaming fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" 2Th1:8... which is NOT merely during "a singular 24-hr day" as some suppose; see also Lam2:3-4 (and its parallel language in 2Th2:[7b-]8a; see Revelation's "7 angels" [for the Trumpets and Vials" which occur over the course of SOME TIME, within the "7 yrs" (as do the SEALS)]);
--"shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" Rom16:20 (addressed specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; "know ye not that WE shall JUDGE ANGELS" 1Cor6:3,[14]);
...I need to close this post quickly (adverb). BBL!
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Reve 12
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
I think this about
1 dragon try to kill Jesus, but Joseph and Mary run to agypt than dragon persecute Christian start Jesus time to great tribulation
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
I think this about
1 dragon try to kill Jesus, but Joseph and Mary run to agypt than dragon persecute Christian start Jesus time to great tribulation
2 thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
He comes at the pretrib rapture
Ha comes in rev 14:14
He comes in rev 19 on horses WITH the saints.
Yes
If you leave off other verses IT APPEARS you are correct.
That's the difference.
You say he comes postrib.
Yes He does.
So you post verses that both camps use and AGREE ON.
I post verses NOT in the postribber workbook.
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
He comes at the pretrib rapture
Ha comes in rev 14:14
He comes in rev 19 on horses WITH the saints.
Yes
If you leave off other verses IT APPEARS you are correct.
That's the difference.
You say he comes postrib.
Yes He does.
So you post verses that both camps use and AGREE ON.
I post verses NOT in the postribber workbook.
No, I don't know what you mean by quickness. I know it would be relative to our understandings, so most likely you would believe something different than I do. In quickness. Is that in Gods time or ours? cause if you really think about it it hasn't even been TWO DAYS YET in Gods time. That would be 'in quickness' wouldn't it? In our time not so much. If the world were only 6000 years old in quickness would mean one thing but if the world were a billion years old then 2000 years would be in quickness. So, this would be one of those times that it is hard to discern what the truth is. But that seems to be the truth when it comes to all the 'pre trib' verses. Like KEPT FROM. Never once in Gods words is 'kept from' put in relation to transfiguration/translations and removal from earth and tribulation, but that doesn't change what pre trib tells us at all. Just like 'delivered'. How many times was Paul DELIVERED and never once was it to be taken to paradise. Neither when He was taken to paradise (a man I once knew?) was it to escape tribulation. Actually none of the translations had anything to do with it. Their work was done.
But NONE of that changes the facts that we aren't gathered unto the Lord until the Lords Day.
I do know the book of Revelation wasn't written to or for those who aren't reading it.
Why you are still using the '7 years' knowing the time was shortened? I know it was written that way under the OT BUT the NT tells us that that time has been changed. I think that would be really important. Big difference between 7 years and the 'one hour' wouldn't you say? I think that sort of 'peace' giving info should be shared more often when speaking on this subject.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
OK, if that is what you think that 1st prophecy was about. You think Christ was just going to keep being born until it did take place? Not sure I am following you here.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
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