The FIG tree or the OLIVE tree?

GraceAndTruth · Oct 12, 2020

Olive Tree is Israel
Genesis 8:11 the dove brings an olive branch to Noah…first mention of the olive
Olive oil is called pure, it is used for anointing Ex 27:20, 30:24 Lev 24:2
Ps 128:3 Thy children are like olive plants

Isaiah refers to the shaking of the olive tree in reference to Israel’s punishment from the Lord Is 17:6 and 24:13
The Lord called your name, a green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and form. Jeremiah 11:16

Zechariah 4 refers to the two olive trees and the lampstand
Light bearers are the
the WORD, if they speak not according to this WORD they have no light in them
the other lightbearer would be the Holy Spirit who sheds light on the word
Olive trees represent the body of Christ
wild olive and cutivated olive wild = Gentiles cultivated = Jews
Romans 11:17 “……..you being the wild olive were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree.”
(interesting passage that confirms the “two witnesses” in Revelation 11: 4)

Fig tree
Much is made by some of the fig tree being symbolic of Israel, but there is little, IF ANY, evidence for this in the bible. This view has been made popular by the “premillennial” view of eschatology.

The fig tree that Jesus cursed bore no fruit.
(The “tares” which bore no fruit were burned up as opposed to the wheat which was gathered /saved.)
The Jews were not fruitless…….they bore much fruit.
The Jews were the apostles who took the gospel to the world, Jews were the first believers and founded the first churches. Jews were persecuted for faith in Christ, and bore witness to others of His glory.

Magenta · Oct 12, 2020

The fig is the third tree mentioned in Scripture after the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Sitting under your own fig tree was a phrase symbolizing peace and prosperity.

Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and
no one will make them afraid, for the LORD Almighty has spoken. Micah 4:4

'In that day each of you will invite your neighbor to sit under your
vine and fig tree,' declares the LORD Almighty. Zechariah 3:10

During Solomon's lifetime Judah and Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, lived in safety,
everyone under their own vine and under their own fig tree. 1 Kings 4:25

The cursing of the fig tree, which took place in the week coming up to
Jesus' crucifixion, signaled the coming end of the temple sacrifice system,
because the Law is fulfilled with the shedding of the blood of Christ.
During the same week, the temple was "cleansed."

"'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be
no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'"
Jeremiah 8:13 13

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Magenta said:

I repeat:
The fig tree that Jesus cursed bore no fruit.

Jews were the olive tree
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, Paul has been emphacizing in this chapter that Jews and Gentiles are now bound together as Israel and are the church.

The Jews were not fruitless…….they bore much fruit.
The Jews were the apostles who took the gospel to the world, Jews were the first believers and founded the first churches. Jews were persecuted for faith in Christ, and bore witness to others of His glory.

AS for your post of Jeremiah 13: 13?.........matter of fact the first few CHAPTERS are dealing with Judah. Judah and Israel were two separate nations.
So to use one verse like its about all of ISRAEL is incorrect.......and its about grapes

Nehemiah6 · Oct 13, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

The good olive tree is REDEEMED Israel. The fig tree is UNBELIEVING Israel.

The branches from the wild olive tree are REDEEMED Gentiles grafted into the good olive tree (which is also the Church).

throughfaith · Oct 13, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

I repeat:
The fig tree that Jesus cursed bore no fruit.

Jews were the olive tree
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, Paul has been emphacizing in this chapter that Jews and Gentiles are now bound together as Israel and are the church.

The Jews were not fruitless…….they bore much fruit.
The Jews were the apostles who took the gospel to the world, Jews were the first believers and founded the first churches. Jews were persecuted for faith in Christ, and bore witness to others of His glory.

AS for your post of Jeremiah 13: 13?.........matter of fact the first few CHAPTERS are dealing with Judah. Judah and Israel were two separate nations.
So to use one verse like its about all of ISRAEL is incorrect.......and its about grapes

What 'much 'fruit did they bare ?

MessageOfTheCross · Oct 13, 2020

Matthew 24

“32 Now learn a Parable of the fig tree (the Bible presents three trees, the fig, the olive, and the vine, as representing the nation of Israel, nationally, spiritually, and dispensationally); When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (is meant to serve as the illustration of Israel nationally), ye know that summer is near (refers to Israel as the greatest Prophetic Sign of all, telling us that we are now living in the last of the last days):

33 So likewise ye (points to the modern Church), when you shall see all these things (which we are now seeing as it regards Israel), know that it is near, even at the doors (the fulfillment of Endtime Prophecies).”

“34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass (the generation of Jews which will be alive at the beginning of the Great Tribulation; as well, it was a prediction by Christ, that irrespective of the problems that Israel would face, even from His day, they would survive), till all these things be fulfilled (there is no doubt, they will be fulfilled).

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away (doesn’t refer to annihilation, but rather a change from one condition or state to another), but My Words shall not pass away (what the Word of God says, will be!).

36 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the Angels of Heaven, but My Father only.”

Mark 13

“28 Now learn a Parable of the fig tree (symbolic of Israel and the Second Coming); When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (refers to the rebirth of Israel as it began in 1948; for about nineteen hundred years this “fig tree” produced nothing, now this tree, taking life from the roots, is beginning to “put forth leaves”), you know that summer is near (Israel is God’s prophetic time clock; looking at Israel, we now know that summer is near, i.e., “the Endtime Prophecies are about to be fulfilled”):

29 So you in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass (the beginning of these things predicted by Christ, has already begun), know that it is near, even at the doors (should have been translated, “He is near,” because it refers to Christ).”

“30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass (concerns the generation in existence at the time of these happenings, which will be the time of the Great Tribulation), till all these things be done (speaks of the events proclaimed in Rev., Chpts. 6-19).

31 Heaven and Earth shall pass away (better translated, “Heaven and Earth shall pass from one condition to another”): but My Words shall not pass away (what Christ is saying will come to pass, and without fail!).”

JSM

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

I believe I had made that clear.....Wild olive = gentiles and cultvated olive = Jews.....by the scripture reference I gave it should be obvious that these are olives are the church.

oh my goodness, look what I found.......more verses in the OLD covenant calling the nation of Israel the Olive Tree.
ergo, I disagree that the fig tree is Israel

Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called your name,
“A green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and form”;
With the noise of a great tumult
He has kindled fire on it,
And its branches are worthless.

Psalm 52:8
But as for me, I am like a green olive tree in the house of God;
I trust in the loving kindness of God forever and ever.

Habakkuk 3:17
Though the fig tree should not blossom
And there be no fruit on the vines,
Though the yield of the olive should fail
And the fields produce no food,
Though the flock should be cut off from the fold
And there be no cattle in the stalls,

Zechariah 4:3
also two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl and the other on its left side.”

two olive trees.....Judah and Israel

It seems the nation was forever in need of God taking them to task.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

throughfaith said:

you might try reading all of my thread where I listed some fruit

stepbystep · Oct 13, 2020

Well, if they have a vine and a fig tree; at the very least they have grapes to make wine and a tree to grow figs. Something to drink and something to eat. All they need now is bread and cheese.

Jesus is the "bread of life," but I have no idea how cheese will work into all this. Maybe the goat headers?

Corban · Oct 13, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

A Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom. See Judges 9, Ezekiel 31 and Daniel 4. If we don't want to be found interpreting the Bible privately (2nd Pet:1:20), we have to go with that understanding. It would seem that united Israel was designated a "Vine". Matthew 21 explains this. Israel divided and chastised is a "Fig Tree". In the Parable of Judges 9:8-14, notice that while the Olive and the Vine directly give pleasure to God, it is not so of the Fig. So also Adam and Eve. Their "Fig Leaves" covered them before one another, but when God arrived on the scene, Adam admitted that he was naked. Thus, the Fig Tree is divided Israel whose fruit neither honors nor "cheers" God. But even worse, it bore no fruit. The "curse" on it was the curses of the Law that they kept with lip service and not their hearts.

The Olive Tree CANNOT be Israel. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It is plainly said in Romans Chapter 11 that Isael are the branches. The Stem/Root is "holy" - Israel were everything but holy. The majority of the natural branches - Israel, were cut off. They were cut off because of unbelief and this unbelief remains till "the fullness of the Gentiles come in" - that is, Armageddon when the Gentile rule on earth is crushed. A Tree is a king and his kingdom. The Olive Tree is Christ and His Kingdom which is only functions when Israel are grafted in again in the Millennium. Although Israel can never rule (Matt.21:43), they are part of Christ's Kingdom because (i) He is their King, and (ii) He will live in Jerusalem in the Millennium. The Olive Tree is only complete after the Millennium when wayward Christian, who are also cut out, are grafted back in (Rom.11:22). New Jerusalem has as King, Jesus (the Stem). It also has the Church as the Walls (unnatural branches), and Israel as the Gates (natural branches). New Jerusalem is the Olive Tree fulfilled.

Christ is also a King of LIFE - eternal LIFE. Only believers have this LIFE. So Christ and His kingdom of LIFE are the "TRUE VINE". Israel had the Law, which was "unto LIFE" and were the Vine of the earth. The Church has the fruits of the Spirit and is the TRUE Vine. Any unbeliever, Jew or Gentile, can NEVER belong to this Tree of Life.

There is one more Tree of interest - the Mustard Tree. In Matthew 13 it is again in Parable - a king and his kingdom. According to Genesis 1:11-12, everything that has its seed in it must produce the same "kind". A mustard tree is generally a small tree with a piquant fruit. The Tree it grew into in Matthew 13 is not a small tree with piquant fruit. It grew into a Tree depicting Babylon and its king, Nebuchadnezzar. It typifies what Christianity has come to by the mating of the Christian religion to the world - as in the Roman Church and her daughters, the Reformed Churches.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Corban said:

I'm not going to address all your error, (like everything you posted), but here is the easiest one you may understand:
Romans 11

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive [gentiles], were grafted in among them and became partaker with them [Jews] of the rich root of the olive tree [Israel/church], 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they {Jews} were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree [gentiles], and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree [Jews], how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

And of course the many other scriptures I posted in this thread confirming that the olive tree are the Jews in the old testament if you care to read them. You forget the best fruit of the Jews.....which I also posted. I do not think you read any of my thread except the title.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 13, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

The fig tree is UNBELIEVING Israel.

Read and study the parable of the Barren Fig Tree again.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

I still disagree, ....Jesus was hungry and the tree had no fruit. Jesus did not give any parable nor did He infer anything about the tree except it had no fruit He was on the road with His apostles. I cannot see how you construe that to mean Israel.
.
He did this as a sign to the apostles with him that there was power that would be theirs in the future.

Corban · Oct 13, 2020

GraceAndTruth said:

If the Lord Jesus Himself, Maker and King of the Jews, said that Israel had brought no fruit, then it does not matter what you think or say. They were barren. The Vine of Luke 13 and the Fig Tree in three gospels, BORE NO FRUIT. Israel had the Law. It was here that they had the chance to bear fruit. But (i) they did not keep the Law but broke it continuously and consistently from the Golden Calf of Horeb onward, (ii) no man can be justified by the Law (Rom.3:20), and (iii) the Law, when applied to fallen men, administers death. God is a Spirit, and fruit up to His standard must be FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT. The Olive Tree's fruit "honors God and man" (Judg.9:9). In Type, Olive Oil is the Holy Spirit. Israel had neither the intrinsic Spirit, nor the economical Spirit.

Added to this, a branch can only bear fruit when attached to the stem. Israel are CUT OFF! There is NO POSSIBILITY for them to bear fruit.

You might want to think that Israel is the Olive Tree, but my Bible says that they are the BRANCHES, and that they were CUT OFF. My Bible also says that the Root is HOLY. There is only ONE Holy Man in the history of mankind - Jesus (Lk.1.35). Other men might be GIVEN a holy place, or made holy by their position, but only one Man is intrinsically holy - Jesus. Neither Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob, fathers of Israel, were holy. And, at no time is the BELIEVING Church, the New Man (in which there is NO JEW NOR GENTILE) grafted into Israel. They are TWO SEPARATE entities - one born of the flesh, and the other born of the Spirit. That is why it is important to see that the Olive Tree is a KING and His Kingdom - not a nation.

Nebuchadnezzar, the great Tree, is a king - OF WHAT? Babylon! NO! "It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth" (Daniel 4:22)

It is a pity you have no time to counter all my "errors". We could all learn much from them.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Romans 11:17

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

GraceAndTruth · Oct 13, 2020

Jeremiah 11: 16

The Lord called your name,
“A green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and form”;
With the noise of a great tumult
He has kindled fire on it,
And its branches are worthless.

Corban · Oct 14, 2020

Maybe a little background will help understand the Olive Tree of Romans Chapter 11.

When man fell, he lost TWO things. They are found in Genesis 1:26-28.

He lost the ability to be in the image and likeness of God and became in the image of the opposite. He offended God and became useless for the intended purpose. His destiny was then Gehenna. Gehenna comes from the Valley of Hinnom, a valley on the south side of Jerusalem where (i) all the cities rubbish was burned, and (ii) the Canaanites, and later Israel, caused their children to walk through fire to appease the demon-god Molech.
He lost his position as subduer and ruler of this earth. He was made subject to the Serpent and thus became useless for the intended prpose. His destiny was to land on the rubbish dump of the world - Gehenna, and burn for transgressing against God.

The gospel, or "Good News" therefore, is TWOFOLD.

God sent His Son Jesus to die for man's transgressions, allow him back to eat of the Tree of Life in a rebirth, impart His divine nature to the man, transform the man's fallen psych into the image of Christ's and resurrect the man's body into incorruption. This wonderful work achieved by Christ is to be had FOR FREE BY FAITH in that Person Jesus. This "good news" is called "the gospel of grace".
But man must also be restored to his position as subduer and ruler of earth, sea and sky. To subdue and rule needs THREE main ingredients; (i) POWER (for the enemy is greater that men), (ii) TRAINING (for men are by their fallen nature self-servers, not servants), and (iii) TO LEARN TO OBEY THE KING (because He wants things administered His way). This "good news" that men are to be restored to their high position as kings of the earth, IS NOT FREE. A price must be paid. The price is (i) denial of the self, (ii) refusing the dictates of the flesh by putting it to death daily, and (iii) putting God's instruction ahead of your ALL THE TIME. This good news is called "the gospel of the Kingdom"

John 3:3-5 shows this process plainly. In verse 3 a man can ONLY SEE the Kingdom if he is born again. But in verse 5 he must not only be born again, but agree to, and execute, Baptism if he wants to ENTER the Kingdom. Moses is a prime example. He was BORN seed of Abraham so he may SEE the Good Land, or, the Kingdom of Israel. But he, by DISOBEDIENCE, misrepresented God before men and so he may NOT ENTER the Kingdom of Israel.

Now Paul, in the first six Chapter of Romans, sets forth the plight of all men - both Jew and Gentile. And then in Chapter 7 he sets forth the hopelessness of men under Law. In Chapter 8 he gives the solution to all men WHO BELIEVE in Jesus. But Israel have NOT BELIEVED (Rom.11:32). The logical conclusion then is; "If Israel have done such wickedness, and have not had faith in Christ, WHAT HOPE IS LEFT FOR THEM???" This is a very valid question because God's HONOR hangs on it. God has PROMISED, based on CIRCUMCISION, that Israel WILL get their Land as an "everlasting possession". So Paul takes three Chapters to establish LEGALLY and JUDICIALLY how God does this. But because Israel DO NOT BELIEVE - the "gospel of GRACE" is not addressed. The "gospel of the Kingdom" is addressed because Israel get a piece of the earth - Canaan. And they get this piece of earth BY COVENANT - not by rebirth. THUS, THE SOLUTION IS A TREE because a Tree in Parable IS A KING AND HIS KINGDOM.

In the Millennium, Israel are restored to their Land with their King, Jesus of the house of David, living with them in Jerusalem, and ruling them as their King. So even though Israel may not rule (Matt.21:43), they are PART OF THE KINGDOM WHEN CHRIST SETS IT UP ON EARTH. The Olive Tree depicts Christ's Kingdom ON EARTH which EXCLUDES UNBELIEVERS IN THIS AGE, but INCLUDES Israel in the NEXT AGE. The Olive Tree is a Kingdom. It King is Jesus. It is offered to Israel and they refuse. So they are removed temporarily. Christ goes to the Gentiles and SOME believe. They are NOT grafted into Israel. They are grafted into CHRIST'S KINGDOM. Later, when Christ returns, He sets aside Israel's sins because the "Lamb of God" takes away the sin (singular - Jn.1:29) of the world, and takes away the sins (plural - 1st Jn.2:2) of the world. Because all sin and sins are atoned for, God may have mercy on who He wants (Rom.9:18).

The Olive Tree, like ALL Trees in Parable, is a king and his kingdom
The Olive Tree is the "gospel of the Kingdom" - NOT the gospel of grace
Christ is the Root/Stem
Israel are removed for this age because of UNBELIEF
Israel are forgiven at the end of the age BY MERCY.
Israel, being restored to their Land (Ezek. 37) become part of the Kingdom again
Israel enjoy their King in the Messianic or Millennial age, in their Land, in safety and in favor with God
Israel can NEVER be born again because they did not believe. They are restored because of a Covenant made with Abraham
Israel can never rule themselves because they forfeit the Kingdom, but their King, Jesus, is a JEW
The 12 Apostles, BELIEVERS, rule Israel
The BELIEVERS who were grafted into Christ's Kingdom are part of the Kingdom, NOT Israel

GraceAndTruth · Oct 14, 2020

Romans 11:17

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Root (cultivated olive) = Jews
wild olive = Gentiles

The apostle Paul has the last word on who is the olive tree.

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The FIG tree or the OLIVE tree?

GraceAndTruth

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Magenta

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throughfaith

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